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It was actually omnipresence I was discussing. I don't believe God is omnipresent. I'm not really sure what omniscient is. So I'm going to read this thread before saying more.
Is Omniscient a form of omniscience?
I believe God has omnipotence and omniscience, but don't believe scripture gives a basis for believing he is omnipresent.Quote Ephesians 4:6
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Ephesians 4:5-7 (in Context) Ephesians 4 (Whole Chapter)David
I believe His omnipresence is by virtue of His ominpotence, or should I say
I blelieve He is all places at all times by virtue of the fact that he knows all things past present and future.
God does not have to be personally here to know every thought you are presently having, what you are doing, have done or are about to do.
But God is not omnipresent in the sense that He is literally everywhere at all times.
That is pantheism a pagan idea from which comes the notion that we are all part of the great spirit of God including all things created.Quote But God is not omnipresent in the sense that He is literally everywhere at all times.
Isn't that what omnipresence is–being present everywhere at all times?Quote I believe His omnipresence is by virtue of His ominpotence, or should I say
I blelieve He is all places at all times by virtue of the fact that he knows all things past present and future.But does knowing something is happening on the other side of the earth, mean that you're there? Or does it simply mean you know?
Does the fact that I say I have eternal life mean I have eternal life even though my outer man dies daily?
What are you trying to say? If you're talking about omnipresence, a new thread has been created in the “feedback and suggestions” part of this forum. I'm not sure why there??
Quote (david @ April 15 2006,21:42) It was actually omnipresence I was discussing. I don't believe God is omnipresent. I'm not really sure what omniscient is. So I'm going to read this thread before saying more.
Omnipresent: present everywhere.How? By His Holy Spirit!
Act 2:17 And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour forth of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams:
Quote (david @ April 16 2006,06:50) Quote Amen kenrch,
All life and breath is of God.
Sure. But is he omnipresent?
Hi david,
Why do we bother speculating about these things?
The ways of God are seriously over our head.We are told certain things about God. And those things indicate that he is not omnipresent. There is no need to speculate. Maybe my understanding of the word “omnipresent” is wrong.
Quote (Ben Elohim @ Feb. 22 2005,19:26) One thing that I have come to believe is that this idea that for God to be omniscient, He would have to “know the future” is based on a rather misguided notion. The future does not exist right now. So it would be incorrect to say that God would not be omniscient if he doesn't know about something that does not exist and is a non-reality. The notion of omniscience is based on knowing all that exists. The future is not an existential thing out there somewhere but a way of describing a reality that does not yet exist. Tomorrow does not exist yet so if anyone does not know something about it it does not mean their knowledge is limited because knowledge is based on knowing what exists, not knowing what does not exist. Tommorrow does not exist and what does not exist is nothing. Omniscience is not based on knowing everything about nothing.
Now God can tell you what he will do in the future because he has the power to make something happen in the future. I can also say that tomorrow I will get out of bed. So when it happens did I “know the future?” Did I predict the future? No. I made a conceived event into a reality. Now my plans can be thwarted. However, God's plans cannot be thwarted due to his power. So if God says he will do something in the future or make something happen tomorrow, it does not mean he “knew the future” in the sense of knowing about another reality that was out there somewhere but that he made a reality occur when the future became the present. Even we humans do this all the time. It does not amount to “knowing the future” or prophesying our own future but amounts to creating a present reality by plan. In the same sense, a prophecy is simply knowledge of what God plans to do and will make to exist, not an insight into an existent reality that can be seen out there somewhere as if it were another realm.
The problem stems from speaking of “the future” and “tomorrow” as if they are present realities that are out there somewhere. They aren't realities because tomorrow does not exist right now. But the fact that people say things like “the future” suggestively makes them think it is a realm of reality out there when it is not. Tomorrow is not a reality today and does not exist today and tommorrow will never truly exist because when tomorrow gets here it will be not be tomorrow but today. “the future” and “tommorrow” are simply ways of describing a yet non-existent reality that we expect to become a present reality. In other words it is something that does NOT exist that we either hope or expect will exist. So to not know what that reality will be is simply to not know something that does not exist and to not know something about nothing. Omniscience does not required knowledge of something about nothing because nothing is not a something to be known in the first place.
Does omniscience require knowledge of all that does not exist? I don't think so. The word means knowledge of all that does exist. Since all that does not exist is what we call “nothing” why would we require that God know everything about nothing in order to know absolutely everything? It is absurd. There is nothing to know about nothing, nothing to know about that which does not exist.
So to speak of “tomorrow” and “the future” as realities that are existing leads people to the misguided notion that these are current realities that God would know about. But they are not. They are non-existent realities and there is nothing to know about a non-existent reality, nothing to know about nothing.
If I say tomorrow I will get out of bed and tomorrow it happens did I know the future?No you predicted based on high probability, but tomorrow you could be dead, which is why scripture says do not say tomorrow I will do this and this, but rather, the Lord willing tomorrow I will still be alive and if He wills I will do this and this.
All else is presumption, God alone can make absolute statements concerning the future.I believe there may be different levels upon which this omnipotence works, I will attempt to explain this briefly.
In Genesis 1:11 God sets out a pattern for life to express itself in its various forms using the illustration of a seed. This seed must bring forth according to kind in order to be working within the correct balance of God's creation.
Given this fact, then if a wheat seed is planted one can accurately predict that a wheat plant will result, assuming of course the life within the seed is still viable and that it comes forth without any external factors interfering with it.
In like fashion we can say a dog will produce dogs, a cat will produce cats…
Now God calls His Word a seed in the gospels and we can see how this would apply. If it is planted in good ground and no external factors, hard ground, weeds, birds … prevent it from coming forth then what will come forth is the Word that was planted.
In this sense therefore despite free moral agency which would seem to complicate things, God would be able to accurately foresee that any true seed of God would emerge in the correct pattern. All that would be necessary therefore to ensure this happened would be to take care of any of the situations and circumstances that would adversely affect this outcome.
Now like I say, this is only one level on which God operates His omniscience. It says of us that every hair on our heads is numbered. This alludes to a level and degree of knowledge and attention to detail that escapes the finite minds of men I believe…
Hi Malcolm,
And all is grace.
We cannot respond unless we are called and chosen and given the grace to repent and the opportunity and power to respond to that call.Hi,
God does know the future.
God is in complete control.
Ecc 3
'14I know that everything God does will remain forever; there is nothing to add to it and there is nothing to take from it, for God has so worked that men should fear Him.15That which is has been already and that which will be has already been, for God seeks what has passed by.”
He will reveal the future to his sons by His Spirit.
jn 16
“13”But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.”
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