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Hi Nick,
That's the eternal question isn't it? 😉
Do you mean “truth” in an absolutist sense? Not being God, I couldn't tell you. However, I think we both believe that Jesus came into the world to bear witness to the truth, and that everyone who is on the side of truth takes heed to his voice?
I believe so. Does that make me perfect? I also have a cat named Sola, but that mere fact doesn't enable me to know the ways, heart and mind of Sola, nor am I always open to what she is trying to communicate. 😉
Hi casiphus,
I think everyone I speak to here would say “I think I have”Since Romans 8.9 says it is absolutely essential do you agree more than just a vague opinion would be necessary to comfort a man on his deathbed?
Quote (Casiphus @ Oct. 19 2005,01:41) I believe so. Does that make me perfect? I also have a cat named Sola, but that mere fact doesn't enable me to know the ways, heart and mind of Sola, nor am I always open to what she is trying to communicate. 😉
Hi casiphus
“I believe so”.
What does this mean?
I know, or something else?Hi Nick,
It means that I believe I have the Spirit of God to guide me.
Again, knowing that I have a cat, doesn't make me positive that I know what the cat is thinking.
Hi casiphus,
Is your cat invisible? If so meow do you know he is around? Does he leave his fur as evidence of his presence?The Spirit is meant to be our downpayment on our salvation. I like to see something apart from theory that shows me the downpayment on my house sale has gone through don't you?
When the Spirit is guiding your thoughts what happens?
Oh Nick, don't you believe that faith is the evidence of things unseen. By faith, then, I believe I have the Spirit of God.
But that is only enough for me – it won't convince anyone else.
Hi casiphus,
By faith do you believe you are saved? What else do you believe by faith? Do you believe everyone is saved for example? Do you believe by faith that everyone has the Holy Spirit who says they do?But you do not believe in the bible by faith?
Hi Nick,
Quote But you do not believe in the bible by faith?
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, so I'll rephrase your question in a couple of different ways, and hopefully one of these will be the one you're after:Do I believe the Bible?
Sure – as a series of accounts or testimonies about God and Jesus. But as with all human accounts, I think they also show the personalities and mindsets of the different authors.Do I believe in the Bible?
I don't believe that the Bible is the Divine Word of God. While such a belief would indeed require faith, I don't think that salvation is dependent on this belief.Hi casiphus,
Jn 6.68f
“To whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. And we have come to believe that you are the Holy One of God”
Do you agree with Peter?Oh Nick, how about you tell me what you think this passage is talking about, and then I can tell you whether I agree with what you're saying?
Casiphus, then what to you, does salvation rest on? if not the authority of scripture?
Quote (Casiphus @ Oct. 20 2005,05:18) Oh Nick, how about you tell me what you think this passage is talking about, and then I can tell you whether I agree with what you're saying?
Hi casiphus,
Surely you can see that it says that;
We need to believe the words of Peter are accurately reported.
We must believe that we must come to Jesus Christ.
We must believe his words.
We must believe those words are accurately reported.
We muat believe that he speaks the words that lead to eternal salvation.
We must obey those words.Quote (Casiphus @ Oct. 20 2005,04:46) Hi Nick, Quote But you do not believe in the bible by faith?
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, so I'll rephrase your question in a couple of different ways, and hopefully one of these will be the one you're after:Do I believe the Bible?
Sure – as a series of accounts or testimonies about God and Jesus. But as with all human accounts, I think they also show the personalities and mindsets of the different authors.Do I believe in the Bible?
I don't believe that the Bible is the Divine Word of God. While such a belief would indeed require faith, I don't think that salvation is dependent on this belief.
Hi casiphus,
Jesus said in 17.17 praying to the Father:
” Sanctify them in the truth;Your word is truth”
Peter said
“But know this first of all, that no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men, moved by the Holy Spirit, spoke from God”
Paul said
“We have the mind of Christ”These claims are not shallow historical narratives and opinion but deep and serious statements of the things of God. Do you believe them?
Hi Soxan – sorry I haven't answered your question, but hopefully my answer to Nick will help clarify to some extent why I don't agree with the majority of arguments in support of Biblical authority.
Hi Nick,
Quote These claims are not shallow historical narratives and opinion but deep and serious statements of the things of God. Do you believe them? I appreciate your fervour on this matter, but perhaps you're reading the Bible with too much of a modern understanding.
In the ancient world, the majority of terms that we translate as “word” refer to “the creative word”, which was a combination of intent and speech (or sometimes actions). So Hebrew (and other) literature abounds in blessings and cursings whose power was in the “speaking forth” (as well as prophetic actions) which “created” life or death. Even from the beginning – God created through the power of speech or intent (God said, “Let there be light”).
Without belaboring the issue: in the Memphite creation myth Ptah “conceived a thought within his heart [mind], and with his tongue made speech, and through the the heart and the tongue he created.” In the Mesopotamian epic of Gilgamesh, Enkidu lays a curse on the woman who brought him from the wilds to Uruk, but when he is reasoned with by Enki, changes his curse to a blessing.
The point of all this is to show how important the “creative power” of speech was to the ancient world – the same ideas can be seen in Celtic and African traditions, and had a great influence on Greek philosophy.
This concept, I think, can be seen at the beginning of John's gospel, where he writes, “In the beginning was the Word [logos – creative power]… He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.” In other words, John is calling Jesus the “creative power” through which all things were made.
So, when the Bible says the “Word” (as opposed to the “scriptures” or the “writings” or the “law”), try using this definition, and I think you'll find that the meaning changes altogether. I'm pretty sure that if you look at the Greek and Hebrew versions, you'll find that the Bible does distinguish between “words” (whether speech or intent) and “writings”.
Sorry about the length of this post.
No! If not scripture, then what do you base your salvation on?
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