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Atheism would cease to exist as a word should all religious deludees see sense and give up on god belief. That is exactly why atheism is not a religion.
Quote It is totally unreasonable and lacking in proof and common sense…
…is totally unreasonable and lacking in proof and common sense.Stuart
No true.
The default is a belief in God or creator of some kind.
The delusion that there is no God has only taken off in recent times. (But even then, most people today believe in God.)So it is normal to give such people's belief a name.
It is called atheism. The scripture calls it foolishness.
Either way, it needs a name.
Quote (Stu @ April 28 2009,18:46) …is totally unreasonable and lacking in proof and common sense. Stuart
Yes I know what you think of common sense. But I happen to value it.
It is also funny when you think that the answer could not be found using common sense and yet you dismiss God because to you this is not common sense.This is your bias at work. It is hindering you and making you double minded.
Scripture says that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
t8
Quote No true.
The default is a belief in God or creator of some kind.
Please revise this to a reasonable claim: t8’s default position is as such, DESPITE his recent claims to be open-minded.Quote The delusion that there is no God has only taken off in recent times. (But even then, most people today believe in God.)
Begging the question, a logical fallacy, one common at Heavennet. Most people believe that matter is continuous as well, but that is an illusion. Once people are shown how matter is an illusion they are happy to acknowledge it as such. When people are shown that god belief cannot be anything other than a delusion because it is impossible to know anything about what they call the supernatural, they persist dogmatically with an impossible position. That is why it is a god delusion.Quote So it is normal to give such people's belief a name. It is called atheism. The scripture calls it foolishness.
The scripture itself is written by men who were ignorant, deluded and fanatical. And almost certainly wrong.Quote Either way, it needs a name.
Sure. Do you think I am going to be offended by your use of an accurate description of me? “Atheist” is no longer a term of social derision as it might once have been in New Zealand, and is still in parts of the US, as you say above.So who cares any more about your attempted name-calling-which-isn’t?
Stuart
Quote Yes I know what you think of common sense. But I happen to value it.
So why did you post this?“Atheist religion is the religion of nothing. It is totally unreasonable and lacking in proof and common sense.”
As I mentioned, that itself is totally unreasonable and lacking in common sense. The HTML {I} could refer to italics or irony in this case. Someone should make up an irony typeset that bends over backwards. That would itself be ironic.
“Atheist religion” is an oxymoron. Atheists have only one belief in common, and it is not a religious view, it is a scientific conclusion.
Quote It is also funny when you think that the answer could not be found using common sense and yet you dismiss God because to you this is not common sense.
Hilarious t8, does someone email them to you? OK, so Finding things Funny is a logical proposition now. That is going to make the logical case against Imaginary Friends quite a lot easier to make.Quote This is your bias at work. It is hindering you and making you double minded.
MORE IRONY!
I have used the inverted irony type because your irony is inverted. If that is not ironic.Quote Scripture says that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
So if I search the KJV I will find the specific term “a double minded man”? And the term “unstable”?Why should scripture be considered to have any authority? Why should the appeal to authority be considered anything more than the pleadings of a scoundrel? That is the status of such pleading when it comes to people making claims in disciplines that actually deal with reality, like in science. Does christianity have a note from home asking for an exception to allow logical fallacies?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ May 06 2009,02:57) Hilarious t8, does someone email them to you? OK, so Finding things Funny is a logical proposition now. That is going to make the logical case against Imaginary Friends quite a lot easier to make.
Stu. Funny can also mean weird and sometimes that weirdness is so ridiculous that it is also humorous. I am sure of course that you have much greater potential than this, but bias is a funny thing, it can severely reduce an open mind and make it so closed that the mind cannot see.Quote (Stu @ May 06 2009,02:57) MORE IRONY!
I have used the inverted irony type because your irony is inverted. If that is not ironic.
Maybe you missed it.You have said that common sense is not a reasonable thing to use in order to understand what happened to cause the Big Bang. Yet you are basically saying that God is not a common sense option.
What I said still stands. You have demonstrated double mindedness and bias. You sway from one to the other to suit.
I value consistency and a lack of it usually devalues a theory.
You god makes neither common sense nor uncommon sense. Whether you take a consevative or radically bizarre interpretation of the evidence you get the same conclusion: no gods.
Stuart
You get that conclusion because you are blind. Not all arrive at that conclusion.
But I accept that you have the right to choose and the right to choose even your own demise.
You can lead an ape to water but you can't make him drink.Quote (t8 @ May 07 2009,16:11) You get that conclusion because you are blind. Not all arrive at that conclusion.
But I accept that you have the right to choose and the right to choose even your own demise.
You can lead an ape to water but you can't make him drink.
I presume you agree that once a blind person has seen, that person will understand the concept of sight.Explain to me then how there are so many people in the world who have been christians but through a process of careful consideration of their beliefs have changed, coming to the same conclusion as me. Are they in denial of what they “saw” when they were christians? ALL of them?
They have made a choice, the option of what you call their own 'demise', from a point of being a christian.
This is not leading people to water, this is the challenge of those who claim the font is dry!
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ May 07 2009,20:01) I presume you agree that once a blind person has seen, that person will understand the concept of sight. Explain to me then how there are so many people in the world who have been christians but through a process of careful consideration of their beliefs have changed, coming to the same conclusion as me. Are they in denial of what they “saw” when they were christians? ALL of them?
They have made a choice, the option of what you call their own 'demise', from a point of being a christian.
This is not leading people to water, this is the challenge of those who claim the font is dry!
Stuart
Such people are swayed by the flow and they were probably swayed toward God in the first place and so they can sway back again.It is actually very rare that a person with true faith and experience in God to give up.
Scripture talks about having a form of godliness, but denying the power of God. I knew a couple of people like that. They had a religious belief but no real depth regarding their faith because they were not that interested in it to begin with. They gave up because it seemed pointless to carry on with their belief.
This is what Jesus said about such.
Mark 4:15-20
15 Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them. 16 Others, like seed sown on rocky places, hear the word and at once receive it with joy. 17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 18 Still others, like seed sown among thorns, hear the word; 19 but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful. 20 Others, like seed sown on good soil, hear the word, accept it, and produce a crop—thirty, sixty or even a hundred times what was sown.”I did expect you to write as much. Are you saying that your god was a butterfingers for allowing those who had been temporarily 'saved' to slip through his fingers from the action of satan?
Many here have claimed that god wants everyone saved. What he wants is increasingly a poor match for what he gets. Either 'he' is incompetent (as we see with 'his' engineering) or 'he' simply lacks the ambition to follow through. I think we have left behind notions of omnipotence long ago: is an omnipotent god capable of proving that he does not exist?
What of those who have not listened to satan but have just used their so-called god-given brain to determine that there are no gods?
Anyway, do you have an answer to the question? Those who were not blind for a while… Why do they deny their vision? What about the rare cases you concede of true christiansTM giving up? You would be negating your own tag line or mocking the genuineness of those former christians' former beliefs. That's not very encouraging for the genuinely delued that they could have the same beliefs as you but not be a true christian: or that might apply to you without you realising it. How do you know your vision is not that which satan has implanted? That sees to be what you are suggesting in others.
Stuart
t8 writes:
Quote Scripture talks about having a form of godliness, but denying the power of God. I knew a couple of people like that. They had a religious belief but no real depth regarding their faith because they were not that interested in it to begin with. They gave up because it seemed pointless to carry on with their belief. he cuts down cedars for himself and takes cypress and oak……… yeshayahu 44/14
they do not know or understand for he has smeared their eyes from seeing, and their hearts from understanding and no one recalls it to his heart nor is there knowledge nor understanding to say ' i have burned half of it in the fire and i have also baked bread on it coals, i have roasted meat and eaten it and shall i make the rest of it an abonimation? should i fall down before a log of wood
yeshayahu 44.18-19much love
reneQuote (Stu @ May 08 2009,22:26) I did expect you to write as much. Are you saying that your god was a butterfingers for allowing those who had been temporarily 'saved' to slip through his fingers from the action
No, it is up to us what we choose. If we choose to allow the cares of the world to choke the seed of truth then that is our decision and no one else. If we decide to put the world higher than the Kingdom of God, then Satan can do his work because he is actually the god of this age/world. It is his age that you would be placing higher than the Kingdom of God therefore you would have given him the right in this case.Quote (t8 @ May 11 2009,16:26) Quote (Stu @ May 08 2009,22:26) I did expect you to write as much. Are you saying that your god was a butterfingers for allowing those who had been temporarily 'saved' to slip through his fingers from the action
No, it is up to us what we choose. If we choose to allow the cares of the world to choke the seed of truth then that is our decision and no one else. If we decide to put the world higher than the Kingdom of God, then Satan can do his work because he is actually the god of this age/world. It is his age that you would be placing higher than the Kingdom of God therefore you would have given him the right in this case.
More begging the question. There is no choice because who would consciously, in a serious consideration of their own position, choose 'non-truth'?To be more honest about it, you would be asking people to decide WHICH view represents truth. You know my choice and my ethical argument for it, and I don't think you have a convincing argument against it. There are the divine threats of course, but we already know your god is an incompetent and a bully.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ May 11 2009,21:59) More begging the question. There is no choice because who would consciously, in a serious consideration of their own position, choose 'non-truth'?
John 3:19
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.John 3:20
Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
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