- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (kerwin @ May 10 2013,01:12) Quote (2besee @ May 09 2013,08:48) Hi Kerwin.
Perhaps you are thinking of these verses:Matthew 23:35 That on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom you slew between the temple and the altar. Truly I say to you, All these things shall come on this generation. O JERUSALEM, JERUSALEM, you that kill the prophets, and stone them which are sent to you.
Revelation 18:10 -24
“Alas! alas! thou great city, thou mighty city, Babylon! In one hour has thy judgment come.”
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.
2besee,That is part of what David and I are discussing though David made the connection and then pointed out that Jesus stated the blood of all the righteous was on Jerusalem.
We differ as I believe Jerusalem/Babylon is a land and he believes Jerusalem/Babylon is a religion.
Hi Kerwin.Babylon must be a City because.
Chapter 16
1: Then I heard a loud voice from the temple telling the seven angels, “Go and pour out on the earth the seven bowls of the wrath of God.”
2: So the first angel went and poured his bowl on the earth, and foul and evil sores came upon the men who bore the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.
3: The second angel poured his bowl into the sea, and it became like the blood of a dead man, and every living thing died that was in the sea.
4: The third angel poured his bowl into the rivers and the fountains of water, and they became blood.
5: And I heard the angel of water say, “Just art thou in these thy judgments, thou who art and wast, O Holy One.
6: For men have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink. It is their due!”
7: And I heard the altar cry, “Yea, Lord God the Almighty, true and just are thy judgments!”
8: The fourth angel poured his bowl on the sun, and it was allowed to scorch men with fire;
9: men were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues, and they did not repent and give him glory.
10: The fifth angel poured his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was in darkness; men gnawed their tongues in anguish
11: and cursed the God of heaven for their pain and sores, and did not repent of their deeds.
12: The sixth angel poured his bowl on the great river Euphra'tes, and its water was dried up, to prepare the way for the kings from the east.
13: And I saw, issuing from the mouth of the dragon and from the mouth of the beast and from the mouth of the false prophet, three foul spirits like frogs;
14: for they are demonic spirits, performing signs, who go abroad to the kings of the whole world, to assemble them for battle on the great day of God the Almighty.
15: (“Lo, I am coming like a thief! Blessed is he who is awake, keeping his garments that he may not go naked and be seen exposed!”)
16: And they assembled them at the place which is called in Hebrew Armaged'don.
17: The seventh angel poured his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple, from the throne, saying, “It is done!”
18: And there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, and a great earthquake such as had never been since men were on the earth, so great was that earthquake.
19: The great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell, and God remembered great Babylon, to make her drain the cup of the fury of his wrath.
20: And every island fled away, and no mountains were to be found;
21: and great hailstones, heavy as a hundred-weight, dropped on men from heaven, till men cursed God for the plague of the hail, so fearful was that plague.The first bowl is poured into the sea.
The next into the rivers and fountains of water.
The next is poured on the sun, which scorches men.
The fifth is on the throne of the beast. His kingdom is in darkness, they suffer anguish, pain and sores.
The next Angel pours his bowl on the river Euphrates which dries up, preparing the way for the kings of the east.
Then three foul spirits come out which go abroad to the kings of the whole world.Then they assemble at a PLACE called in Hebrew Armageddon.
The seventh angel pours his bowl into the air.
There is lightning, voices and thunder and a great earthquake.
THE GREAT CITY is split into three parts, and then the CITIES of the NATIONS fall.There you go, it has to be a place. We have: the sea; the water; the sun, then the throne of the beast; then the river Euphrates; then the kings of the east; we have the word “abroad”; we have a place called Armageddon; we have the air; the great city; and the cities of the nations.
Also, Babylon rides the beast.
So maybe the beast is the nations?It is very complicated.
Quote (942767 @ May 09 2013,17:30) Are you trying to state that he “was going to ascend to the position of the Father”? The proof is the scripture itself.
Quote Jhn 16:16 ¶ A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father. Jhn 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Well done Marty.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 10 2013,04:52) Quote (kerwin @ May 09 2013,06:12) We differ as I believe Jerusalem/Babylon is a land and he believes Jerusalem/Babylon is a religion.
Hi Kerwin,I've been reading your discussion with David. I haven't really seen anyone show “rock-solid” scriptural proof for either claim, but it is hard for me to believe that ALL of the “bad people” are in ONE land.
There are good and bad throughout the entire earth. Let's say Babylon is the United States. Why would God say, “Come out of her my people” – as if ONLY the United States has “bad people” in it?
What if I left the United States and went to, say, Iraq? Would I then be okay because I left the land were everybody is bad, and moved to a land where everybody is good?
Does EVERYBODY in this land of Babylon deserve to be punished, while NOBODY in any other nation in the entire world does?
To me, it doesn't make sense.
Okay, that's my two cents. Carry on.
Mike,Jesus appears top teach that Jerusalem will be punished all the prophets and other men had suffered. He does not say those who did the deeds would not be punished.
Quote (carmel @ May 10 2013,06:10) THAT'S YOUR POOR MENTALITY! SINCE JESUS BECAME LIKE US, MAN ON EARTH,WE COULD BECOME LIKE HIM WHILE ON EARTH!
GOD IN FLESH!
THE REASON THAT HE DIED FOR!
We differ only in part.You are right that Jesus became like us so we could become like him. Now ask yourself, was he truly a man or only part man? If he was a man, and we are men, then when he went to the glory that he had with the Father before the world began, then he became that which he was before. And it is written that our lowly bodies will be transformed into a body like his. Thus if he was really a man, then we will become that which he is now. And what is that? God? The son of God?
Well the answer is clear, but in case you had any doubt, we will be like him, so what will we become? Sons of God or God? Whatever we are he is because we will be like him.
So either Jesus and us are God or sons of God. I choose the latter.
Finally, you say that Jesus is God in the flesh. That is not correct. God comes in the flesh when he dwelt in Jesus and when he dwells in us, but Jesus is the Word who became flesh, not God who became flesh.
@ 2besee
The Vatican is both a religion and a city/state.
And it is possible that it owns more than you can imagine.
Try this for starters. I haven't read it myself yet.
http://guardianlv.com/2013….ortgageQuote (t8 @ May 10 2013,08:26) Quote (carmel @ May 10 2013,06:10) THAT'S YOUR POOR MENTALITY! SINCE JESUS BECAME LIKE US, MAN ON EARTH,WE COULD BECOME LIKE HIM WHILE ON EARTH!
GOD IN FLESH!
THE REASON THAT HE DIED FOR!
We differ only in part.You are right that Jesus became like us so we could become like him. Now ask yourself, was he truly a man or only part man? If he was a man, and we are men, then when he went to the glory that he had with the Father before the world began, then he became that which he was before. And it is written that our lowly bodies will be transformed into a body like his. Thus if he was really a man, then we will become that which he is now. And what is that? God? The son of God?
Well the answer is clear, but in case you had any doubt, we will be like him, so what will we become? Sons of God or God? Whatever we are he is because we will be like him.
So either Jesus and us are God or sons of God. I choose the latter.
Finally, you say that Jesus is God in the flesh. That is not correct. God comes in the flesh when he dwelt in Jesus and when he dwells in us, but Jesus is the Word who became flesh, not God who became flesh.
t8Quote You are right that Jesus became like us so we could become like him. Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Mt 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
Ro 8:14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
Ro 8:19 The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.Gal 3:26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,
Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
those scriptures are saying that all who believe will be sons of God ,but in revelation it says that only 144k are redeemed from the earth ,would this not mean that all believer either man on earth or redeemed from it to live in heaven WOULD BE CALLED SONS OF GOD .???,YES ADAM WAS CALLED SON OF GOD ,AND ALSO THE ANGELS WERE CALLED SONS OF GOD ;SO BEING CALLED TO BECOME SONS OF GOD DOES NOT IMPLY TO GO IN HEAVEN ,AS SOME BELIEVE BECAUSE IT SAYS ONLY 144K WILL GO TO HEAVEN ,THIS IS WHAT REDEEMED MEANS RIGHT
YES ,So we can rightfully say that it is the believe (faith) that make us sons of God ,and not the place in heaven only but on earth men will be also called sons of God ,
Revelation 7
1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.
The Great Multitude in White Robes
9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
13 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore,
“they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne
will shelter them with his presence.
16 ‘Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat down on them,’
nor any scorching heat.
17 For the Lamb at the center of the throne
will be their shepherd;
‘he will lead them to springs of living water.
‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”What about these guys T?
9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
……
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore,
“they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne
will shelter them with his presence.
16 ‘Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat down on them,’
nor any scorching heat.Quote (t8 @ May 10 2013,10:07) What about these guys T? 9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
……
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore,
“they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne
will shelter them with his presence.
16 ‘Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat down on them,’
nor any scorching heat.
t8WERE IS THAT
“BEFORE THE THRONE “La 2:1 How the Lord has covered the Daughter of Zion
with the cloud of his anger !
He has hurled down the splendor of Israel
from heaven to earth;
he has not remembered his footstool
in the day of his anger.Mt 5:35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King.
Ac 7:49 “ ‘Heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool.would it be that the earth stands for “before the throne ”
1Co 3:17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him; for God’s temple is sacred, and you are that temple.
Quote (t8 @ May 10 2013,08:30) @ 2besee The Vatican is both a religion and a city/state.
And it is possible that it owns more than you can imagine.
Try this for starters. I haven't read it myself yet.
http://guardianlv.com/2013….ortgage
T8,A good point but I do not believe the merchants of the world would moan as loud about the lost of them as a customer base.
Quote (kerwin @ May 09 2013,23:12) Quote (2besee @ May 09 2013,08:48) Hi Kerwin.
Perhaps you are thinking of these verses:Matthew 23:35 That on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom you slew between the temple and the altar. Truly I say to you, All these things shall come on this generation. O JERUSALEM, JERUSALEM, you that kill the prophets, and stone them which are sent to you.
Revelation 18:10 -24
“Alas! alas! thou great city, thou mighty city, Babylon! In one hour has thy judgment come.”
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.
2besee,That is part of what David and I are discussing though David made the connection and then pointed out that Jesus stated the blood of all the righteous was on Jerusalem.
We differ as I believe Jerusalem/Babylon is a land and he believes Jerusalem/Babylon is a religion.
Hi kerwin. I don't believe Babylon the great is Jerusalem. And I don't believe it is “a religion.”I believe it is the world empire of false religion.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 10 2013,09:52) Quote (kerwin @ May 09 2013,06:12) We differ as I believe Jerusalem/Babylon is a land and he believes Jerusalem/Babylon is a religion.
Hi Kerwin,I've been reading your discussion with David. I haven't really seen anyone show “rock-solid” scriptural proof for either claim, but it is hard for me to believe that ALL of the “bad people” are in ONE land.
There are good and bad throughout the entire earth. Let's say Babylon is the United States. Why would God say, “Come out of her my people” – as if ONLY the United States has “bad people” in it?
What if I left the United States and went to, say, Iraq? Would I then be okay because I left the land were everybody is bad, and moved to a land where everybody is good?
Does EVERYBODY in this land of Babylon deserve to be punished, while NOBODY in any other nation in the entire world does?
To me, it doesn't make sense.
Okay, that's my two cents. Carry on.
“I've been reading your discussion with David. I haven't really seen anyone show “rock-solid” scriptural proof for either claim, but it is hard for me to believe that ALL of the “bad people” are in ONE land.”Agreed. Babylon the great “sits on many waters.”
Quote (david @ May 10 2013,15:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 10 2013,09:52) Quote (kerwin @ May 09 2013,06:12) We differ as I believe Jerusalem/Babylon is a land and he believes Jerusalem/Babylon is a religion.
Hi Kerwin,I've been reading your discussion with David. I haven't really seen anyone show “rock-solid” scriptural proof for either claim, but it is hard for me to believe that ALL of the “bad people” are in ONE land.
There are good and bad throughout the entire earth. Let's say Babylon is the United States. Why would God say, “Come out of her my people” – as if ONLY the United States has “bad people” in it?
What if I left the United States and went to, say, Iraq? Would I then be okay because I left the land were everybody is bad, and moved to a land where everybody is good?
Does EVERYBODY in this land of Babylon deserve to be punished, while NOBODY in any other nation in the entire world does?
To me, it doesn't make sense.
Okay, that's my two cents. Carry on.
“I've been reading your discussion with David. I haven't really seen anyone show “rock-solid” scriptural proof for either claim, but it is hard for me to believe that ALL of the “bad people” are in ONE land.”Agreed. Babylon the great “sits on many waters.”
Agreed again. “Come out of her my people.”Does this make sense if its a country or city?
Yes, in times past, Jerusalem was destroyed. But that only foreshadowed what will happen on a much much larger scale.
Babylon, the ancient city/empire, was a very religious place. It had a ton of gods, an insane amount of temples, and I would say was grand central of false religion. Many false doctrines originated and flowed from Babylon. Eternal torment, eternal soul, trinity, etc.
Being the source of so much god dishonouring false religion, it's fitting that the world empire of false religion be given the title:
Babylon the great.
mikeboll64,May wrote:[/quote]
Quote No, he was the SON OF God in the flesh. Mike,
ARE YOU CONFIRMING THAT THERE IS:
A GOD
A GOD IN FLESH
THE SON OF GOD
AND THE SON OF GOD IN FLESH?
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
t8,May wrote:[/quote]
Quote was he truly a man or only part man t8,
DEFINITELY HE WAS FULLY MAN!
Right now I am discussing JESUS' RESERRUCTION ON THIS THREAD,AND IT GIVES PROOF THAT JESUS WAS FULLY MAN:
SO IF YOU WANT TO JOIN IN IT'S UP TO YOU!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (david @ May 10 2013,11:02) Quote (david @ May 10 2013,15:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 10 2013,09:52) Quote (kerwin @ May 09 2013,06:12) We differ as I believe Jerusalem/Babylon is a land and he believes Jerusalem/Babylon is a religion.
Hi Kerwin,I've been reading your discussion with David. I haven't really seen anyone show “rock-solid” scriptural proof for either claim, but it is hard for me to believe that ALL of the “bad people” are in ONE land.
There are good and bad throughout the entire earth. Let's say Babylon is the United States. Why would God say, “Come out of her my people” – as if ONLY the United States has “bad people” in it?
What if I left the United States and went to, say, Iraq? Would I then be okay because I left the land were everybody is bad, and moved to a land where everybody is good?
Does EVERYBODY in this land of Babylon deserve to be punished, while NOBODY in any other nation in the entire world does?
To me, it doesn't make sense.
Okay, that's my two cents. Carry on.
“I've been reading your discussion with David. I haven't really seen anyone show “rock-solid” scriptural proof for either claim, but it is hard for me to believe that ALL of the “bad people” are in ONE land.”Agreed. Babylon the great “sits on many waters.”
Agreed again. “Come out of her my people.”Does this make sense if its a country or city?
Yes, in times past, Jerusalem was destroyed. But that only foreshadowed what will happen on a much much larger scale.
Babylon, the ancient city/empire, was a very religious place. It had a ton of gods, an insane amount of temples, and I would say was grand central of false religion. Many false doctrines originated and flowed from Babylon. Eternal torment, eternal soul, trinity, etc.
Being the source of so much god dishonouring false religion, it's fitting that the world empire of false religion be given the title:
Babylon the great.
Davidtell me are their more than two camps in this world
1) with God according to God's will
2) against God (means the world )
3)
I do not know any other than those two ;
t8
“they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne
will shelter them with his presence.
16 ‘Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat down on them,’
nor any scorching heat.where can we be NEVER BE THIRST
OR WHERE DOES THE SUN NOT BEAT US DOWN OR SCORCHING BY HEAT OR NEVER BE HUNGER AGAIN IS IT NOT ON EARTH Quote (carmel @ May 05 2013,18:21) ……….. DO NOT ISOLATE VERSES: …………
Peace and love to Jesus
Charles
Sorry, I've been away on vacation.Just so we are clear…I said that you should not isolate an ambiguous verse and try to state it's meaning.
You see…”Thou shalt not steal” is not ambiguous. Therefore, do not steal!!!
“that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” You see, NOT ambiguous. The ONLY true God is Jesus' Father, not Jesus!!!
However, trinitarians come across a verse that calls Jesus “elohim” and they want to say “see, Jesus is GOD!!” That is the mistake with trying to isolate and DEFINE an ambiguous verse.
Quote (terraricca @ May 11 2013,01:57) David tell me are their more than two camps in this world
1) with God according to God's will
2) against God (means the world )
3)
I do not know any other than those two ;
3) For God, but batting for the Devil.Interesting question. Jesus did say to Peter, “get behind me Satan”. So it is possible that even a disciple of Jesus can be influenced by Satan.
I mean many Christians teach the Trinity Doctrine. I myself use to believe it, yet I know that God was with me then as he is now.
But yeah, my take is that a child of God will move into the light and will go from glory to glory. But he will however makes some mistakes on the way, even serious mistakes.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
