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Mike, I agree with your post.
No matter where it comes from, Kids love to hear about Jesus and God, it is valuable knowledge for them.Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 13 2013,16:24) Also, you cannot escape the truth that God was with God in the beginning and that is speaking of the Son of God.
That is the sort of thing I was giving warning about.The 2 or 3 God doctrine. God with God. God with God with God.
It's just God. And all else are from him. That is one reason he is God and we are sons of God. Even a child can understand that because a child has a Father in the flesh to teach him that he has a Father of his spirit. And that this Father is the true God.
LU teaches men to break the first commandment. Thus far, she has influenced no one.
Thanks be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.
Quote (jb2u @ Mar. 12 2013,06:13) I was raised Baptist. However, I never really got where they were seeing the trinity in scripture. It always seemed clear to me that God literally sent His Son. Never did I see it that God exists in three separate “beings.” This is not a debate about if the trinity is true or not!!! My point is….I love the church environment. I love hearing, as well as reading the word of God. I love the fellowship. I love the singing of hymns. As I search and search for a church, I can not find one that does not believe in the trinity. I look at those religions that do not believe in the trinity; yet they have their own problems (JW, Mormons, Dawn bible students, Christian Scientist, etc).
Is there a church for me? Is there a church that does not believe in the trinity, believes that Jesus rose in the flesh, that you must repent and ask for salvation through Christ? I know that I do not need a “building”. If such a church does not exist, I will continue to do a home bible study. However, I do not want to go and sit in a church in which I disagree with their doctrine. As it has been said 90% true of anything is 100% false!!
I thank everyone here that takes the time to read and/or comment on my post. God is Great!!!
JB2u,I am sorry but I have not been given the solution to this mystery.
Quote (jb2u @ Mar. 12 2013,06:13) I was raised Baptist. However, I never really got where they were seeing the trinity in scripture. It always seemed clear to me that God literally sent His Son. Never did I see it that God exists in three separate “beings.” This is not a debate about if the trinity is true or not!!! My point is….I love the church environment. I love hearing, as well as reading the word of God. I love the fellowship. I love the singing of hymns. As I search and search for a church, I can not find one that does not believe in the trinity. I look at those religions that do not believe in the trinity; yet they have their own problems (JW, Mormons, Dawn bible students, Christian Scientist, etc).
Is there a church for me? Is there a church that does not believe in the trinity, believes that Jesus rose in the flesh, that you must repent and ask for salvation through Christ? I know that I do not need a “building”. If such a church does not exist, I will continue to do a home bible study. However, I do not want to go and sit in a church in which I disagree with their doctrine. As it has been said 90% true of anything is 100% false!!
I thank everyone here that takes the time to read and/or comment on my post. God is Great!!!
jb2LK 14:27 “Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
this is our cross ,to search for God almighty to find the way he put forth to save us ,Jesus Christ his son ,he is the way and the true shepherd ,so what ever it takes to follow him is our cross to bear
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 13 2013,06:29) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 13 2013,16:24) Also, you cannot escape the truth that God was with God in the beginning and that is speaking of the Son of God.
That is the sort of thing I was giving warning about.The 2 or 3 God doctrine. God with God. God with God with God.
It's just God. And all else are from him. That is one reason he is God and we are sons of God. Even a child can understand that because a child has a Father in the flesh to teach him that he has a Father of his spirit. And that this Father is the true God.
LU teaches men to break the first commandment. Thus far, she has influenced no one.
Thanks be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.
jb2u,
Don't let t8 be a stumbling block. He has singled me out because I am one of the few that challenges his blindness. Apparently his Bible doesn't have john 1:1 in it.In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
God with God in the beginning! Amen!
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 14 2013,01:46) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 13 2013,06:29) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 13 2013,16:24) Also, you cannot escape the truth that God was with God in the beginning and that is speaking of the Son of God.
That is the sort of thing I was giving warning about.The 2 or 3 God doctrine. God with God. God with God with God.
It's just God. And all else are from him. That is one reason he is God and we are sons of God. Even a child can understand that because a child has a Father in the flesh to teach him that he has a Father of his spirit. And that this Father is the true God.
LU teaches men to break the first commandment. Thus far, she has influenced no one.
Thanks be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.
jb2u,
Don't let t8 be a stumbling block. He has singled me out because I am one of the few that challenges his blindness. Apparently his Bible doesn't have john 1:1 in it.In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
God with God in the beginning! Amen!
Kathythis is not true ,you are a surface viewer ,and you go against many scriptures but you do not care for truth in scriptures only your own view ,your soft approach does not paired up with truth of the scriptures,
any can see it just look for Kathy topics and compere it with the scriptures in depth,
I appreciate everyone's input. I thank you all.
To those that disagree with each other, sometimes all we can do is pray for someone's eyes to be opened to the truth!!!
jb2u,
You are welcome.There are two mentioned as 'God' in John 1:1…a child can count that. How blind can anyone be to deny this???
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 14 2013,07:09) jb2u,
You are welcome.There are two mentioned as 'God' in John 1:1…a child can count that. How blind can anyone be to deny this???
LU,John 1:1 is a nice poetic verse. John seems to express things poetically in many cases. For some reason this seems to confuse people. He is not speaking of two God's. He is using a literary construct.
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 14 2013,14:09)
There are two mentioned as 'God' in John 1:1…a child can count that. How blind can anyone be to deny this???Hi LU,
There is one God in John 1:1, not two.
James 2.19
'You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder'Quote (jb2u @ Mar. 14 2013,13:46) I appreciate everyone's input. I thank you all. You are welcome JB,
Join in with some conversations now and then.Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 13 2013,11:45) Hi Gene, Dr. Anthony Buzzard?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDJ……………Thanks brother i have corrected it.peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
jb2u………..I belive it is like this brother, unless the LORD shall build the House the weary builders build in vein, unless the LORD is the cities shield the guard maintain a uless watch.
Peace and Love to you and yours………………………………………………..gene
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 14 2013,05:33) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 14 2013,14:09)
There are two mentioned as 'God' in John 1:1…a child can count that. How blind can anyone be to deny this???Hi LU,
There is one God in John 1:1, not two.
James 2.19
'You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder'
2besee,
Yes, God is one…this one God is YHVH, who is God of gods and Lord of lords. For us there is one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Lord of lords and the Word of God that appeared in visions to the forefathers and YHVH's OWN Arm that brings salvation.All these things are true
…and the Word was God
Jesus and the Father are ONE!Quote (2besee @ Mar. 15 2013,00:33) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 14 2013,14:09)
There are two mentioned as 'God' in John 1:1…a child can count that. How blind can anyone be to deny this???Hi LU,
There is one God in John 1:1, not two.
James 2.19
'You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder'
True 2besee.It was the Word that was with God and the Word became flesh. The false doctrine that many are under the influence of is the one that espouses that God was with God and God became flesh.
For a good explanation on John 1:1, Origen who was well versed in the Greek tongue points out what it is saying.
https://heavennet.net/writings/supporting-the-trinity-doctrine/His quote is in blue if you scroll down the page a bit.
Actually I will quote it in a post here.
Origen wrote this in the early 200s.
Enjoy.
“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 15 2013,06:27) Quote (2besee @ Mar. 14 2013,05:33) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 14 2013,14:09)
There are two mentioned as 'God' in John 1:1…a child can count that. How blind can anyone be to deny this???Hi LU,
There is one God in John 1:1, not two.
James 2.19
'You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder'
2besee,
Yes, God is one…this one God is YHVH, who is God of gods and Lord of lords. For us there is one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ. Jesus is the Lord of lords and the Word of God that appeared in visions to the forefathers and YHVH's OWN Arm that brings salvation.All these things are true
…and the Word was God
Jesus and the Father are ONE!Hi LU,
I believe that you are on the right track, but….. You speak about the two powers of YHVH….. Well, if I understand you rightly, then you are correct with this, but think a bit more.
We have our own mind and our own spirit and those two things and many more things, including our word make up “us” as an individual person.
So, in John 1:1, God is indeed on. and this one God, as is known in other scripture, is the one God. The words of God are a part of God, and are God (that is spiritually understood). The Spirit of God is a part of God (a huge part of God – the active force in creation and the active force with God and man) and this Spirit is the Holy Spirit, which is also called the Son of God, which came down from heaven and spoke through the man Jesus.
This is an interesting concept and if you Google it (“spirit christology”), you will see that it actually has agreement with many, and is something which is contained in the original part of scripture called the Shepherd of Hermas, and other writings.
It is also in harmony with the New Testament and with the Old.
It all makes perfect sense to me.
I can feel the spirit more so than I have in a long time.Something for you to think about.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 15 2013,10:04) Origen wrote this in the early 200s. Enjoy.
“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)Gosh, t8, all of those “theos/gods”!!
Yes, I was an Arian myself, once (not too long ago).
Quote (jb2u @ Mar. 13 2013,18:46) I appreciate everyone's input. I thank you all. To those that disagree with each other, sometimes all we can do is pray for someone's eyes to be opened to the truth!!!
Sorry none of us seemed to have the answers you were looking for.
Quote (2besee @ Mar. 15 2013,13:10) Gosh, t8, all of those “theos/gods”!! Yes, I was an Arian myself, once (not too long ago).
He is teaching the Greek usage of theos. It can be applied to the Most High, Angels, Men, Satan, idols, etc.You can't change Greek, you can only accept it and learn it.
Rejecting Greek is not the answer.
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