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ED J…………Well i finely found something me a Mike agree on . Paul and even Jesus described His own coming. I can understand about a Spiritual awakening taking place Spiritually, But Just as the body without the spirit is dead so are all who have died and without a resurrection (Physically) are still in the state of the dead. What i believe you and Tim and Del are talking about is a Spiritual awakening and i do agree that has happened to some already. But Jesus described his coming back to this earth in a Physical way also,
Luk 21:26…..> Mens hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven (the gravitational pulls that lock the planet together) shall be shaken. 27…> and then shall they “SEE” the son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
I really don't believe that has happened yet, and again it says;
For as a snare shall it come on “ALL” them that dwell on the face of the “WHOLE EARTH”.
Brothers i think you are mixing up spiritual enlightenment of God sending forth the Holy Spirit with the actual Physical return of Jesus as a SON OF MAN . IMO
peace and love…………………………………gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2012,00:42) Ed, He warned that Jesus had NOT yet come…………way after Pentecost.
Hi Mike,The Apostle Paul (Shaool) said this way after Pentecost as well, what do you make of this verse…
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (see John 14:23)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgWhat do you want me to think about it, Ed? It doesn't say one word about Jesus having already come the second time.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 05 2012,08:52) ED J…………Well i finely found something me a Mike agree on
Yes Gene,That will happen each and every time you actually speak ACCORDING TO the scriptures. When you start doing that about every scriptural subject, you'll find we agree on every scriptural subject.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2012,03:06) What do you want me to think about it, Ed? It doesn't say one word about Jesus having already come the second time.
Does Ed believe that Jesus has already come (the second time)?
If so, we are warned about believing people who say this.
When Jesus comes, we will not have to say anything because all will know. It will be unmistakable.
We don't need to be told that Jesus has come and hence why we are to not listen to those who say he has come.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 06 2012,01:52) ED J…………Well i finely found something me a Mike agree on . Paul and even Jesus described His own coming. I can understand about a Spiritual awakening taking place Spiritually, But Just as the body without the spirit is dead so are all who have died and without a resurrection (Physically) are still in the state of the dead. What i believe you and Tim and Del are talking about is a Spiritual awakening and i do agree that has happened to some already. But Jesus described his coming back to this earth in a Physical way also, Luk 21:26…..> Mens hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven (the gravitational pulls that lock the planet together) shall be shaken. 27…> and then shall they “SEE” the son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
I really don't believe that has happened yet, and again it says;
For as a snare shall it come on “ALL” them that dwell on the face of the “WHOLE EARTH”.
Brothers i think you are mixing up spiritual enlightenment of God sending forth the Holy Spirit with the actuarial Physical return of Jesus as a SON OF MAN . IMO
peace and love…………………………………gene
amen.amen.I agree.Quote (t8 @ Feb. 06 2012,21:19) Does Ed believe that Jesus has already come (the second time)?
Yep. Ed (and also Jack, I think) believes that Pentecost was the second coming of Jesus.Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 28 2012,17:27) Give it up Mike! Jacob saw God “face to face.” In the least this means that Jacob had a DIRECT ENCOUNTER of some kind with God. He wrestled with God. God took a form so Jacob could have a DIRECT ENCOUNTER with Him. God appeared to Jacob. Geez man!
Hosea 12
2 The LORD has a charge to bring against Judah;
he will punish Jacob according to his ways
and repay him according to his deeds.
3 In the womb he grasped his brother’s heel;
as a man he struggled with God.
4 He struggled with the angel and overcame him; he wept and begged for his favor.Jack, are you ready to change your signature yet? Or do you enjoy putting your foot in your mouth?
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 07 2012,14:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2012,03:06) What do you want me to think about it, Ed? It doesn't say one word about Jesus having already come the second time.
Does Ed believe that Jesus has already come (the second time)?
If so, we are warned about believing people who say this.
When Jesus comes, we will not have to say anything because all will know. It will be unmistakable.
We don't need to be told that Jesus has come and hence why we are to not listen to those who say he has come.
t8This is what you will see.
Mat 24:29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Question is, what tribulation is Jesus talking about.
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
You will see the sign of the son of man, but he will behind a cloud, why? because
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was “”as the sun shineth in his strength.””
Remember what happen to Paul when Jesus appeared to him?
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, “”that appeared unto thee”” in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
We wont see Jesus, when he comes for his saints of the first resurrection. That's why we read, he comes like a thief in the night, unnoticed.
Georg
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 29 2012,03:15) TO ALL, The Jehovah's Witnesees and the Christadelphians deny that God appeared to men in the old testament. The “proof text” they offer is a partial quote from John 1:18 which in the KJV says,
“No man has SEEN God at any time.”
The problem with their interpretation is that the word “horao” (to see) in John 1:18 means “to discern mentally” and has nothing to do with physical sight. Please refer to Strong's# 3708. The first definition Strong gives is “to discern clearly physical or mental.”
Now the adversaries insist that John must have meant that no man had ever seen God with his bodily organ called the eye. But this commentary has no contextual basis.
Here is John's statement in its entirety and not just a partial quote:
“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has EXPLAINED Him.”
John's use of the Greek word “exegesis” (explained) defines what he meant by the word “horao.” John clearly meant that no man had DISCERNED God mentally at any time before Christ appeared and explained Him.
John meant that no man had seen God with the mind's eye before Christ came.
This is the whole context of Christ's becoming flesh in John 1. Christ is called the “WORD” because He speaks to the mind. Then He is called the “true LIGHT” because he illuminates the mind.
The adversaries pit scripture against scripture. Jacob wrestled with God and then called the place “Peniel” because “I have seen God face to face.”
KJ
You misquoted,Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; “”the only begotten Son””, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Georg
Quote (Pastry @ Feb. 10 2012,13:00) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 07 2012,14:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 06 2012,03:06) What do you want me to think about it, Ed? It doesn't say one word about Jesus having already come the second time.
Does Ed believe that Jesus has already come (the second time)?
If so, we are warned about believing people who say this.
When Jesus comes, we will not have to say anything because all will know. It will be unmistakable.
We don't need to be told that Jesus has come and hence why we are to not listen to those who say he has come.
t8This is what you will see.
Mat 24:29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Question is, what tribulation is Jesus talking about.
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
You will see the sign of the son of man, but he will behind a cloud, why? because
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was “”as the sun shineth in his strength.””
Remember what happen to Paul when Jesus appeared to him?
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, “”that appeared unto thee”” in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
We wont see Jesus, when he comes for his saints of the first resurrection. That's why we read, he comes like a thief in the night, unnoticed.
Georg
Hi Georg,
Looks like you are still using a whole lot of private interpretation to hold your doctrines together?
2Peter 1.20To All,
Please review the op to this thread. Anti-trinitarians misinterpret John 1:18 which says, “No man has seen God at any time….” They don't finish the verse. It goes on to say, “The only begotten God has explained Him.” The word “explained” defines the sense inwhich no man has “seen” God. It means that no man has comprehended God.
Further evidence below shows that the anti-trins misinterpret John 1:18. Seventy-four men saw the God of Israel.
Exodus 24:9-12:
Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10 and they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity. 11 But on the nobles of the children of Israel He did not lay His hand. So they saw God, and they ate and drank.
12 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and be there; and I will give you tablets of stone, and the law and commandments which I have written, that you may teach them.”
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 30 2012,08:48) To All, Seventy-four men saw the God of Israel.
Hi Jack, how've you been?Could please show your reference here; OK?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 30 2012,08:48) To All, Please review the op to this thread. Anti-trinitarians misinterpret John 1:18 which says, “No man has seen God at any time….” They don't finish the verse. It goes on to say, “The only begotten God has explained Him.” The word “explained” defines the sense inwhich no man has “seen” God. It means that no man has comprehended God.
Further evidence below shows that the anti-trins misinterpret John 1:18. Seventy-four men saw the God of Israel.
Exodus 24:9-12:
Then Moses went up, also Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10 and they saw the God of Israel. And there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone, and it was like the very heavens in its clarity. 11 But on the nobles of the children of Israel He did not lay His hand. So they saw God, and they ate and drank.
12 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and be there; and I will give you tablets of stone, and the law and commandments which I have written, that you may teach them.”
Kangaroojack.No man can see his face or they will die.
God had to cover moses with his hand,so moses could only see his hinder part.Jesus(the word of God): before he was made man was with God, but in the flesh;he never saw God appear to him.
The flesh can not bear to see him face to face.
but Gods spirit was in him, his personatity is as God,pure and Holy.Therefore he is the image of God,in caracter and deeds,and wisdom, and power.wakeup.
Quote (Ed J @ July 30 2012,09:00) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 30 2012,08:48) To All, Seventy-four men saw the God of Israel.
Hi Jack,Could please show your reference here; OK?
God bless
Ed J
Hi Jack, is this the verse?“Then went up Moses, and Aaron, and Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy
of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel:” (Ex 24:9-10)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ July 31 2012,05:18) Quote (Ed J @ July 30 2012,09:00) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 30 2012,08:48) To All, Seventy-four men saw the God of Israel.
Hi Jack,Could please show your reference here; OK?
God bless
Ed J
Hi Jack, is this the verse?“Then went up Moses, and Aaron, and Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy
of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel:” (Ex 24:9-10)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I believe in what Jesus said: —- ye have neither heard his voice at anytime,nor seen his shape.John 5:37.1John 4:12 No man hath seen God at anytime—-
wakeup.
The Logos is the source of enlightenment – something is lacking on the part of man; something is not understood. In order for man to expand his understanding of God, he must first be given access to the mind of God. The function of the Logos is to link the mind of man to the mind of God so that man might be able to think the way God thinks: to reason the way God reasons. (Bearing in mind of course, this is only after a limited fashion. After all, man is still a finite creature). What will be needed on the part of man is the realization that his thinking and reasoning processes are veiled in the darkness of intellectual blindness; not just about God, but about his own place within the eternal continuum, and even his relationship to the natural world of which he is a part. In verse 18, John says, “no man has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.” The word ἑώraken that is translated here as seen in most of the English translations is third person singular of ὁrqw which, according to Thayer, has three basic definitions. First, it means to see with the eyes. Secondly, it means to see with the mind, to know, to perceive.] Thirdly, it means to become acquainted with through pragmatic experience (The 1981 New Thayer’s Greek English Lexicon, p 451).
If John is arguing from the first definition, this needs to be understood in the light of pragmatic Old Testament examples. We know from the many examples of theophonic manifestations in the Old Testament that God has repeatedly presented himself to man in a number of ways. At times, God availed himself only to man’s auditory senses. He spoke to Adam, to Cain, to Noah, to the Hebrew patriarchs, to Moses, to the prophets, and to others. Sometimes he visited himself upon man in the form of dreams or visions as to the prophet Isaiah in Isaiah chapter six. Other times, he appears as objects such as the cloud or the pillar of fire that went before Israel in the wilderness. Still, there are other times when he visited man in human form. There are some eight accounts of this type of theophany found in the Old Testament.
The word ‘theophany’ is derived from two Greek words, qexV meaning God and fwnu meaning sound or voice. A theophany then is a hearing of the voice of God. Theophonic experiences in scripture assume many forms, yet all seem to have a singular function. They communicate the will of God to man. They provide man with a point of reference that man can comprehend. In so doing, God is demonstrating compassion for the limitations of the human mind to understand things that are beyond his ability to comprehend. In some theophonic experiences, God will accommodate only mans sense of hearing. One only heard the voice of God. God speaking to Noah in Genesis 6 is just such an example. Another is Genesis 12 where God spoke to Abraham. Sometimes, these theophanies would be accompanied by some type of material phenomenon such as fire, wind, or earthquake as in the cases of Moses in Exodus 3, the nation of Israel in Exodus 13 and Elijah in 1Kings 19. Each of these accompanying natural phenomena would appeal to a broader range of physical senses as God sometimes chose to speak in these things. Still, at other times, God chose to assume an anthropomorphic form as in Genesis 18 when he appeared to Abraham in the company of two angels, all in human form. For further reference, one might examine these examples of anthropomorphic theophanies. What appears in each of these is the repeated phrase “The Angel of Jehovah” 22:15-18; 31:11-13; 48:15-16, Joshua 5:13-15, Judges 6:11-24, and Judges 13:15-23.
In each of example where the phrase “The Angel of Jehovah” is used, God is represented as the messenger of Jehovah. The phrase “THE Angel of Jehovah” is only used to describe the spokesman of deity. This term is never applied to anyone else in scripture. He is always functioning as the spokesman of the divine triad. In each case, this is deity appearing in human form. In every example, those to whom The Angel of Jehovah appeared always understood, at some point, that he was God and they honored him as such. The Angel of Jehovah will always assume divine authority in each of these Old Testament exemplars. He will always be seen serving as the agent of communication, hence the term “The Angel of Jehovah.” He is angelic not in nature but in function. In nature, he is God. In function, he is the messenger in the triadic unity.
The apostle Paul points out in 1Corinthians 10:1-4 that Jesus was the Rock who followed Israel through the desert. Therefore, scripture shows us that man has after a limited fashion, experienced God in varying degrees at the sensory level. He has seen and heard God. However, if what John is talking about in verse eighteen is experiencing the essence of God, it is certainly true that man has never looked upon the unshielded essence of the Almighty. Of all men, Moses seems to have been granted the most intimate privilege of experiencing the presence of God in his essence. In Exodus chapters 33 and 34, God allows all of his goodness to pass before Moses while shielding him in a rock and covering him with his hand. After God had passed by and declared the name of Jehovah, he then removed his hand and the text says that Moses was allowed to see his back or hind parts. Perhaps more properly, he saw what was behind him. The LXX translation of this text reads and then you see the back, behind, or after me. The back does not refer to anything anthropomorphic but suggests the element of time. Moses would see only where God had been after he had passed by.
If word rendered “back” in the Hebrew is understood as an intellectual limitation, this would seem to fit better with the closing statement of this prologue. He has explained him.”The Greek word is third person singular aorist first indicative active meaning to detail, to set forth in language, to make known or to reveal (George V. Wagram’s Analytical Greek Lexicon of the New Testament, 1983). This is the etymology of our word to ‘exegete’. In other words, “No man has understood or comprehended God at any time. The only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he has EXPLAINED him.” The Logos presents God to the mind of man through the medium of human language in such a way that man is now able to understand something of the nature and character of God that he could never know from his observation of the natural world. Only the one who came out of the very presence of God could have done this.
In the 1980 printing of The Expositors Greek Testament on the gospel of John p 692, the expositor makes an interesting observation in contrast to Meyer. He says that xhgusato refers to the work” which Christ accomplished while he was on earth. This emphasizes a particular function of the Second Position. Having come from this eternal intimate relationship with the Father, he is thus “equipped” to translate the mind of God to the mind of man. The linking of these two minds is intended to create an isomorphic state of thinking. As we see in verses 10-12, this response on the part of man would be both positive and negative. As man begins the process of learning to think and reason as God, he will learn to re-symbolize his relationship both to God and to the natural world. He will have to learn to think differently, to speak differently, and to behave differently. Reality will take on a new definition. This would not be met favorably among the majority of humanity, not in that generation nor in this one.
Jack,
Let's say you're right about 1:18 meaning no one has ever understood God.
What about 1 john 4:12?
No-one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
The Greek word in this case is “theaomai”, which has to do with seeing with the eyes, and doesn't, from what I can tell, carry the alternate meaning of “to see with the mind” that “horao” carries.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 05 2012,13:11) The Logos is the source of enlightenment – something is lacking on the part of man; something is not understood. In order for man to expand his understanding of God, he must first be given access to the mind of God. The function of the Logos is to link the mind of man to the mind of God so that man might be able to think the way God thinks: to reason the way God reasons. (Bearing in mind of course, this is only after a limited fashion. After all, man is still a finite creature). What will be needed on the part of man is the realization that his thinking and reasoning processes are veiled in the darkness of intellectual blindness; not just about God, but about his own place within the eternal continuum, and even his relationship to the natural world of which he is a part. In verse 18, John says, “no man has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.” The word ἑώraken that is translated here as seen in most of the English translations is third person singular of ὁrqw which, according to Thayer, has three basic definitions. First, it means to see with the eyes. Secondly, it means to see with the mind, to know, to perceive.] Thirdly, it means to become acquainted with through pragmatic experience (The 1981 New Thayer’s Greek English Lexicon, p 451).
If John is arguing from the first definition, this needs to be understood in the light of pragmatic Old Testament examples. We know from the many examples of theophonic manifestations in the Old Testament that God has repeatedly presented himself to man in a number of ways. At times, God availed himself only to man’s auditory senses. He spoke to Adam, to Cain, to Noah, to the Hebrew patriarchs, to Moses, to the prophets, and to others. Sometimes he visited himself upon man in the form of dreams or visions as to the prophet Isaiah in Isaiah chapter six. Other times, he appears as objects such as the cloud or the pillar of fire that went before Israel in the wilderness. Still, there are other times when he visited man in human form. There are some eight accounts of this type of theophany found in the Old Testament.
The word ‘theophany’ is derived from two Greek words, qexV meaning God and fwnu meaning sound or voice. A theophany then is a hearing of the voice of God. Theophonic experiences in scripture assume many forms, yet all seem to have a singular function. They communicate the will of God to man. They provide man with a point of reference that man can comprehend. In so doing, God is demonstrating compassion for the limitations of the human mind to understand things that are beyond his ability to comprehend. In some theophonic experiences, God will accommodate only mans sense of hearing. One only heard the voice of God. God speaking to Noah in Genesis 6 is just such an example. Another is Genesis 12 where God spoke to Abraham. Sometimes, these theophanies would be accompanied by some type of material phenomenon such as fire, wind, or earthquake as in the cases of Moses in Exodus 3, the nation of Israel in Exodus 13 and Elijah in 1Kings 19. Each of these accompanying natural phenomena would appeal to a broader range of physical senses as God sometimes chose to speak in these things. Still, at other times, God chose to assume an anthropomorphic form as in Genesis 18 when he appeared to Abraham in the company of two angels, all in human form. For further reference, one might examine these examples of anthropomorphic theophanies. What appears in each of these is the repeated phrase “The Angel of Jehovah” 22:15-18; 31:11-13; 48:15-16, Joshua 5:13-15, Judges 6:11-24, and Judges 13:15-23.
In each of example where the phrase “The Angel of Jehovah” is used, God is represented as the messenger of Jehovah. The phrase “THE Angel of Jehovah” is only used to describe the spokesman of deity. This term is never applied to anyone else in scripture. He is always functioning as the spokesman of the divine triad. In each case, this is deity appearing in human form. In every example, those to whom The Angel of Jehovah appeared always understood, at some point, that he was God and they honored him as such. The Angel of Jehovah will always assume divine authority in each of these Old Testament exemplars. He will always be seen serving as the agent of communication, hence the term “The Angel of Jehovah.” He is angelic not in nature but in function. In nature, he is God. In function, he is the messenger in the triadic unity.
The apostle Paul points out in 1Corinthians 10:1-4 that Jesus was the Rock who followed Israel through the desert. Therefore, scripture shows us that man has after a limited fashion, experienced God in varying degrees at the sensory level. He has seen and heard God. However, if what John is talking about in verse eighteen is experiencing the essence of God, it is certainly true that man has never looked upon the unshielded essence of the Almighty. Of all men, Moses seems to have been granted the most intimate privilege of experiencing the presence of God in his essence. In Exodus chapters 33 and 34, God allows all of his goodness to pass before Moses while shielding him in a rock and covering him with his hand. After God had passed by and declared the name of Jehovah, he then removed his hand and the text says that Moses was allowed to see his back or hind parts. Perhaps more properly, he saw what was behind him. The LXX translation of this text reads and then you see the back, behind, or after me. The back does not refer to anything anthropomorphic but suggests the element of time. Moses would see only where God had been after he had passed by.
If word rendered “back” in the Hebrew is understood as an intellectual limitation, this would seem to fit better with the closing statement of this prologue. He has explained him.”The Greek word is third person singular aorist first indicative active meaning to detail, to set forth in language, to make known or to reveal (George V. Wagram’s Analytical Greek Lexicon of the New Testament, 1983). This is the etymology of our word to ‘exegete’. In other words, “No man has understood or comprehended God at any time. The only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he has EXPLAINED him.” The Logos presents God to the mind of man through the medium of human language in such a way that man is now able to understand something of the nature and character of God that he could never know from his observation of the natural world. Only the one who came out of the very presence of God could have done this.
In the 1980 printing of The Expositors Greek Testament on the gospel of John p 692, the expositor makes an interesting observation in contrast to Meyer. He says that xhgusato refers to the work” which Christ accomplished while he was on earth. This emphasizes a particular function of the Second Position. Having come from this eternal intimate relationship with the Father, he is thus “equipped” to translate the mind of God to the mind of man. The linking of these two minds is intended to create an isomorphic state of thinking. As we see in verses 10-12, this response on the part of man would be both positive and negative. As man begins the process of learning to think and reason as God, he will learn to re-symbolize his relationship both to God and to the natural world. He will have to learn to think differently, to speak differently, and to behave differently. Reality will take on a new definition. This would not be met favorably among the majority of humanity, not in that generation nor in this one.
Hi Jackthis is good ,and well explained but yet missing a few things in dept ,
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 05 2012,06:23) Jack, Let's say you're right about 1:18 meaning no one has ever understood God.
What about 1 john 4:12?
No-one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
The Greek word in this case is “theaomai”, which has to do with seeing with the eyes, and doesn't, from what I can tell, carry the alternate meaning of “to see with the mind” that “horao” carries.
Hi Mike,“And [The LORD] said, Thou canst not see my face:
for there shall no man see me, and live.” (Ex 33:20)Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org
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