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Matthew 5,
17 “Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For most certainly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. 19 Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way you will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
21 “You have heard that it was said to the ancient ones, 'You shall not murder;' and 'Whoever shall murder shall be in danger of the judgment.' 22 But I tell you, that everyone who is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment; and whoever shall say to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council; and whoever shall say, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. 23 “If therefore you are offering your gift at the altar, and there remember that your brother has anything against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are with him in the way; lest perhaps the prosecutor deliver you to the judge, and the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be cast into prison. 26 Most certainly I tell you, you shall by no means get out of there, until you have paid the last penny.
27 “You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery;' 28 but I tell you that everyone who gazes at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it away from you. For it is more profitable for you that one of your members should perish, than for your whole body to be cast into Gehenna. 30 If your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off, and throw it away from you. For it is more profitable for you that one of your members should perish, than for your whole body to be cast into Gehenna.
31 “It was also said, 'Whoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorce,' 32 but I tell you that whoever puts away his wife, except for the cause of sexual immorality, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries her when she is put away commits adultery.
33 “Again you have heard that it was said to them of old time, 'You shall not make false vows, but shall perform to the Lord your vows, 34 but I tell you, don't swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is the throne of God; 35 nor by the earth, for it is the footstool of his feet; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shall you swear by your head, for you can't make one hair white or black. 37 But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes' and your 'No' be 'No.' Whatever is more than these is of the evil one.
38 “You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you, don't resist him who is evil; but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 If anyone sues you to take away your coat, let him have your cloak also. 41 Whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and don't turn away him who desires to borrow from you.
43″You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Don't even the tax collectors do the same? 47 If you only greet your friends, what more do you do than others? Don't even the tax collectors do the same? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.
So what exactly was 'done away with' out of the ten commandments?
Do we sin now – is that what Paul was saying? Do we give our hearts to Jesus and sing songs and all is well?
I don't think so. That's not what Jesus said.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 23 2012,02:52)
2Besee.Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of THE LAW are under the CURSE: for it is written, CURSED is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of THE LAW to do them.
Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by THE LAW in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Galatians 3:12 And THE LAW is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of THE LAW, being made a CURSE for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Galatians 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Galatians 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, THE LAW, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Galatians 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth THE LAW? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
If you choose to live by the law; you will also be judged by the law. If you chose to live by Christ;you will be judged by his mercy.
All will be found guilty, if judged by the law;for you break one commandment and you are guilty of all.
wakeup.
Wakeup, Roman 6:
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism to death, that just like Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will also be part of his resurrection; 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him, that the body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be in bondage to sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
8 But if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him; 9knowing that Christ, being raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no more has dominion over him! 10 For the death that he died, he died to sin one time; but the life that he lives, he lives to God. 11 Thus consider yourselves also to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore don't let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 Neither present your members to sin as instruments of unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God, as alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin will not have dominion over you. For you are not under law, but under grace.
15 What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under law, but under grace? May it never be! 16 Don't you know that to whom you present yourselves as servants to obedience, his servants you are whom you obey; whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that, whereas you were bondservants of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching whereunto you were delivered. 18 Being made free from sin, you became bondservants of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh, for as you presented your members as servants to uncleanness and to wickedness upon wickedness, even so now present your members as servants to righteousness for sanctification.
20 For when you were servants of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit then did you have at that time in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now, being made free from sin, and having become servants of God, you have your fruit of sanctification, and the result of eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
We are a new creation which is dead to sin. Do we return to sin? As Paul said, “God forbid!”
We never knew sin before, and we never knew the full law.
Jesus never came to make it easier or to free us from any of God's commandments, instead Jesus came to make it harder – as things such as Adultery could be committed with the intentions of the heart, and God knew their hearts – despite their outward appearances.
Do you think that anything has changed?
2Besee.
God will NOT accept any good works done because it is written in the law,but he will accept when it comes from the heart. All must come from the heart.
The sabath is made for man;not man made for the sabath.
Keeping the sabath, only because the law said so,is of no value to God.
Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; AFTER THOSE DAYS, saith the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
KEEP THE SABATH DAY CLEAN AND KEEP IT HOLY.what does that mean? Does that mean that we have to go to church? no
For we worship God 24/7,daily in our hearts.We are the temple of God.Doing good work on a sabath day is good.Doing work for greed sake on a sabath is evil.
Enjoing a break on a sabath with the family is good.
Helping a neighbour with repairing his leaking roof,because of the storm is good.Driving a friend to the hospital on a sabath day ,is good.
Some HAVE TO work on a sabath day to provide for the family,is good.(like working on roster).God is not just black and white.We do good 24/7.not only on sabaths.But work on a sabath for greed sake is bad.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 24 2012,01:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 23 2012,07:03) Quote (2besee @ Nov. 22 2012,22:06) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 15 2012,18:54) 4. Do you celebrate christmas? Do you celebrate Christmas? Just wondering.
No I stopped celebrating Christmas long before ever reading the Quran I stopped celebrating Christmas because it is not really based on Christianity it is mostly a pagan celebrationJeremiah 10:2-4
King James Version (KJV)
2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Sounds like a Christmas tree to me or at least it's the same idea
B,tharta.Do you celebrate the yearly hudg?
wakeup.
I have never went on pilgirmage but I hope to go someday to HajjQuote (2besee @ Nov. 24 2012,09:12) Hi all,
I haven't had time to read over this, I have been away,but Bod, I wanted to ask you – what IS the story about Ishmael?
I heard there was some 'mix up' (possibly)
Do you know about this?
Not sure what you are talking about but you may be talking about the belief that some Muslims have that it was actually Ishmael that Abraham was going to sacrifice and not Isaac the reson they believe this is because of the age gap between the two but the Quran does not specify who it was but for sure the Jews certainly did not want to include Ishmael's importance in the Torah so they seemed to have concealed some things for instance at one point calling Isaac Abraham's only son.Hi Wakeup, I was not talking about the sabbath in particular, but I was talking about all of the ten commandments. I understand that Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath, but what of the other ten commandments?
All of those laws (the ten commandments) were written by God's own hand and they still stand as Jesus said, however things are deeper now, because God as you rightly say knows the intentions of our heart. Anyone can all be show.
Hi Bod I read about the Ishmael story on some Muslim sites years ago, I will need to do some more searching.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2012,12:25) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 24 2012,01:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 23 2012,07:03) Quote (2besee @ Nov. 22 2012,22:06) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 15 2012,18:54) 4. Do you celebrate christmas? Do you celebrate Christmas? Just wondering.
No I stopped celebrating Christmas long before ever reading the Quran I stopped celebrating Christmas because it is not really based on Christianity it is mostly a pagan celebrationJeremiah 10:2-4
King James Version (KJV)
2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Sounds like a Christmas tree to me or at least it's the same idea
B,tharta.Do you celebrate the yearly hudg?
wakeup.
I have never went on pilgirmage but I hope to go someday to Hajj
B.tharta.Why would you go and spend money to kiss a stone?
wakeup.
Quote (2besee @ Nov. 25 2012,21:08) Hi Wakeup, I was not talking about the sabbath in particular, but I was talking about all of the ten commandments. I understand that Jesus is the Lord of the sabbath, but what of the other ten commandments? All of those laws (the ten commandments) were written by God's own hand and they still stand as Jesus said, however things are deeper now, because God as you rightly say knows the intentions of our heart. Anyone can all be show.
2Besee.The law given to Moses was wtritten in stone.
But the new law is written in our hearts,we dont break the law because we love God,not because it is written as a law.We keep ourselves clean, because of our love for God,not because of the written law.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 26 2012,03:12) 2Besee. The law given to Moses was wtritten in stone.
But the new law is written in our hearts,we dont break the law because we love God,not because it is written as a law.We keep ourselves clean, because of our love for God,not because of the written law.
wakeup.
Wakeup, this is true what you wrote but we still have to obey the law because we know that the law is to be obeyed because we obey God out of a pure heart and because we know right from wrong.
We know that adultery is wrong, we know that even flirting with others is wrong, as an example.
We know that coveting is wrong – it is ungrateful to God for what we do have, and what do we have even if we are poor? We have God's love.
We have a Teacher, only one, Jesus, the Spirit of truth.
And we learn even more, the more that we read.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 26 2012,01:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2012,12:25) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 24 2012,01:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 23 2012,07:03) Quote (2besee @ Nov. 22 2012,22:06) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 15 2012,18:54) 4. Do you celebrate christmas? Do you celebrate Christmas? Just wondering.
No I stopped celebrating Christmas long before ever reading the Quran I stopped celebrating Christmas because it is not really based on Christianity it is mostly a pagan celebrationJeremiah 10:2-4
King James Version (KJV)
2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Sounds like a Christmas tree to me or at least it's the same idea
B,tharta.Do you celebrate the yearly hudg?
wakeup.
I have never went on pilgirmage but I hope to go someday to Hajj
B.tharta.Why would you go and spend money to kiss a stone?
wakeup.
I wouldn't, why do people kiss crosses or journey to Jerusalem or wish to walk in the steps of Christ?B,tharta.
So called christians of which they are the majority,kiss anything, statues feet,crosses,pictures.
But we should not follow after their works,for there are true christians of which are only a few.(the little flock).
We should not kiss anything material,used as religious symbols.
wakeup.
I had planned to go through the Quran and compare the Quran to the Bible. But you know, Bod that they are both different in regards to who Jesus is and in regards to the death and the resurrection, and also in regards to 'eternal hell torment'. So there is not much point in me posting it all here is there?
It seems that you have made up your mind. Not much I can say, except discuss.
Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 27 2012,01:20) B,tharta. So called christians of which they are the majority,kiss anything, statues feet,crosses,pictures.
But we should not follow after their works,for there are true christians of which are only a few.(the little flock).
We should not kiss anything material,used as religious symbols.
wakeup.
I agree but I do understand the draw to it, in fact I cannot say I haven't picked up a sweater of my wife whom I love dearly and smelled and kissed it when she was on vacation with her mom. Love is strong and objects often contain essence remember this:Acts 19:11-12
King James Version (KJV)
11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:
12 So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.
Quote (2besee @ Nov. 27 2012,09:24) Hi Bod. When you first started off on this forum were you a Christian or a Muslim?
I generally refer to myself simply as someone who submits to the will of God.I don't care if someone is a Christian, Jew or Muslim it is really all about their FAITH to me.
In the days of Jesus some had enough faith to accept him perhaps a greater faith because if he was not the Messiah imagine the results
Some had enough Faith to not accept Jesus.
Jesus came to save the lost not those who were strong and faithful in their faith, he didn't say that all were lost this is what mose christians like to say but Jesus did not say that. Jesus did not like Hypocrites.
So he wasn't condemning devout Jews who truly had faith in what was given to them.
Same thing with Christians and Muslims some Christians are really sincere loving Christians so if they are really Faithful then there really is no problem because any faithful Christian is devoid of the hate and anger that so many display under the guise of “sharing their religion”
Jesus already told us how to behave and how to treat others and he wasn't the first but he did make clear that if you LOVED GOD and PEOPLE what law would you not be following?
So Love is the standard, all fighting comes from oppression or the resistance of oppression and violence is not always bad without it you would always have some oppressing others as you see today so people fight everyday for the Love of something sometimes they are in the right and sometimes they are in the wrong but this fighting must go on outside until we all win the battle inside and this is true Jihad, it is SPIRITUAL warfare so what we see all over the physical world is what is being reflected in the Spiritual.
We are all Fighting our urges and so we must help each other conquer ourselves by loving a little more each day.
I Love you ~ Asana
I do see what you are saying. Can you tell me more about this spiritual Jihad? I remember reading about that years ago but I can't remember what exactly, and it is never the same when you read things off websites, it is better to actually ask someone in person (or should say over – over the net!)
And thank you. I love you Asana. That warmed my heart:)
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 09 2012,13:52) Wakeup,Nov. wrote:[/quote]
1) Jesus as the 'Son of God' (qur.says no; he is just a.prophet).Wrong the Quran calls Jesus a Spirit proceeding from God and a Word from Him
O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not “Trinity”: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)2) The Crucifixion(qur.says not true.he never suffered anything).
Wrong the Quran says he was not killed or crucified
That they said (in boast), “We killed christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #157)3) The afterlife. ( there is no day of resurrection of the dead: the resurrection happens daily).
Wrong there will be a last day with a Judgement an Resurrection.
The life of this world is alluring to those who reject faith, and they scoff at those who believe. But the righteous will be above them on the Day of resurrection; for Allah bestows His abundance without measure on whom He will.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #212)Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #55)O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).
( سورة الحج , Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #5)
B,tharta.You said Jesus is a spirit from God.
How can this clarify the scriptures?
I call this contradicting the scriptures,for the scripture says,
The word was with God AND THE WORD WAS GOD.You say,that there is a day of resurrection;but the muslems believe that the martyrs are in heaven enjoying their virgins.
Muslems say that Jesus was not crucified,therefore did not suffer.
You speak about faith; which faith. Not the Christian faith.
The christian faith believes that jesus is the son of God.
The budhist believe also that Jesus is a good prophet,just as the muslems believe.
Even satan believed that jesus is the son of God,so where do you stand?wakeup.
Quote (2besee @ Dec. 02 2012,16:23) Bod, how do you view John 1:1?
Sorry, I didn't see this until now, As I said Jesus was/is a spirit that proceeded from God a Word from God and the word became flesh.The Word is not Jesus the Word is Spirit and that Spirit became Flesh/Jesus.
You see it is the same with all of the creations of God, God said “let there be light and there was light” The light was not God but the Word of God created light and all things including Jesus the fact is Jesus was a direct creation like Adam was l the rest of us were born through reproduction and not direct creation
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