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tk
Quote For all: Anyone who comes preaching that Jesus Christ must come back to Earth and set up a physical government to rule the world from a temple reconstructed in Jerusalem is a deceiver and the truth is not in them! this is true ,agree with it
Pierre
Pierre; We differ big time here my friend. Jesus is done, finished, completed and through with the entire plan of God. Jesus is at rest with God waiting for his enemy (errant destructive thinking) to be put underfoot. He can do anything he chooses but to come again to do unfinished work for God he will not do because it is finished. It is up to us and all mankind to rid our minds/hearts of sin and all evil thinking…..replace it with Gods words from Jesus, of purity, perfection, worthiness, cleanliness, sinlessness, and then let the pure love of God flow unhindered into all and through all on the planet. This is the end of time destruction that will leave life and love on earth. Destroy evil thinking and replace it with love thinking.
It all starts with the mind first. A change of mind will change an entire life, bad or good. If destroying “evil” to you means destroying “bad people” then you are also a murderer! People are…WHAT AND HOW THEY ARE PROGRAMED in the mind….! They are not “evil” they “believe in evil”! Do you believe in evil? Thats no different than the Muslems that kill themselves for “their” religious purpose, or the Japanese Kamikaze's that killed themselves “for their religious purpose”! A religious man that believes in destruction is a dangerous man to be feared. A man that believes a god of destruction, will commit the most heinous of crimes. Most man made religion is destructive.
How many religious people do you think agreed with the invasion of Irac? It was not a “war”, we invaded them when they had done nothing calling for the hit! It destroyed many lives. Congress didn't call for war. Bush sent us on his own power. If war comes near our shores we warn them and then clean house.We will always preserve and protect our shores. But if they are on the other side of the planet, not asking for help, leave them alone. Live and let live. Who do you think, offensively killed more people: Saddam…Hitler….George Bush…! TK
tk
Quote Pierre; We differ big time here my friend. Jesus is done, finished, completed and through with the entire plan of God. Jesus is at rest with God waiting for his enemy (errant destructive thinking) to be put underfoot. 1Co 15:24 Then the end will come, when he(CHRIST) hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he(CHRIST) has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he(CHRIST) must reign until he(CHRIST) has put all his enemies under his(CHRIST) feet.DID YOU READ THIS THE WAY IT IS WRITTEN OR MADE YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS
Pierre
Pierre: My friend, you are gonna have to “see” with “seeing eyes”(understandings)….and “hear” with “hearing ears” the spirit in the transposition of many scriptures. How was Paul going to describe to those people the Kingdom of God. Metaphorically he was saying that when Jesus had finished his work(that was the end) for him….Jesus has put all things under his feet/subjection….Jesus said it is finished…Jesus said I have overcome the world……Jesus gave us the truth which placed untruth or lies and deceptions(the devil) under his feet….Jesus created an avenue for the truth of God to rule each king with his own Kingdom of God. Each Priest of his own Temple of God.
You better stop beating the individual words and hear the spirit truth or you will not be born of spirit. We must dream the dream created spiritually by the words. In the end old men will dream dreams and see visions…..or they won't find God.
Each Pastor of his own church body of God. This was a package deal between God and Jesus. Once established we must enter by accepting the truth of God through Jesus individually as we build our house of God through the Spirit words of God.
Jesus Christ has set up his Kingdom and put his enemies under foot. When will we? First know your enemies are not men, women and children. We don't fight flesh and blood! If you could remove all lies and deceptions against the truth, from any or all people, the only thing left within them is the love they were created with originally!! We came from love, we must return! YOUR ENEMY IS LIES AGAINST THE TRUTH. DECEPTIONS AGAINST THE TRUTH!! We must arm ourselves with the word/truth/spirit and fight the good fight of faith and so be in union and oneness through the truth from God. IMO, TK
Quote (ftk @ Nov. 10 2011,04:21) Pierre: My friend, you are gonna have to “see” with “seeing eyes”(understandings)….and “hear” with “hearing ears” the spirit in the transposition of many scriptures. How was Paul going to describe to those people the Kingdom of God. Metaphorically he was saying that when Jesus had finished his work(that was the end) for him….Jesus has put all things under his feet/subjection….Jesus said it is finished…Jesus said I have overcome the world……Jesus gave us the truth which placed untruth or lies and deceptions(the devil) under his feet….Jesus created an avenue for the truth of God to rule each king with his own Kingdom of God. Each Priest of his own Temple of God. You better stop beating the individual words and hear the spirit truth or you will not be born of spirit. We must dream the dream created spiritually by the words. In the end old men will dream dreams and see visions…..or they won't find God.
Each Pastor of his own church body of God. This was a package deal between God and Jesus. Once established we must enter by accepting the truth of God through Jesus individually as we build our house of God through the Spirit words of God.
Jesus Christ has set up his Kingdom and put his enemies under foot. When will we? First know your enemies are not men, women and children. We don't fight flesh and blood! If you could remove all lies and deceptions against the truth, from any or all people, the only thing left within them is the love they were created with originally!! We came from love, we must return! YOUR ENEMY IS LIES AGAINST THE TRUTH. DECEPTIONS AGAINST THE TRUTH!! We must arm ourselves with the word/truth/spirit and fight the good fight of faith and so be in union and oneness through the truth from God. IMO, TK
tkyour comment is not a answer to my response to you so please address the scriptures that contradict your views ,
Quote Pierre; We differ big time here my friend. Jesus is done, finished, completed and through with the entire plan of God. Jesus is at rest with God waiting for his enemy (errant destructive thinking) to be put underfoot. 1Co 15:24 Then the end will come, when he(CHRIST) hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he(CHRIST) has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he(CHRIST) must reign until he(CHRIST) has put all his enemies under his(CHRIST) feet.you also reversed the roles what is Christ work into God s work
and we know that God as given all powers to Christ to do that work,
Pierre
Pierre: What “end” are you concerned with? There is no end to the Kingdom of God it is eternal. If the eternal Kingdom is within you isn't that the “end of time”? Eternity has no “time”! Everything that happens is “now”! The word of God…was…is…is being….and will be! Thats the eternal word of God. Jesus handed over the Kingdom to God the Father. God has the Kingdom. Gods kingdom is growing within his people…..Gods Kingdom will manifest fully!! Gods kingdom will never end! EVER!!
Has Jesus put his enemies under his feet? Yes!….Has Jesus destroyed the “works”/”doctrines of the devil” Yes!….Jesus has subjected all things to us. All power and all authority have been given to Jesus and Jesus gave them to us! What for?… To continue to rise up unto God.
We were saved, in Jesus….We are saved, in Jesus,….We are being saved, in Jesus….We will be saved, in Jesus!! THINK ETERNAL SPIRIT….not mere man! TK
Quote (ftk @ Nov. 11 2011,05:02) Pierre: What “end” are you concerned with? There is no end to the Kingdom of God it is eternal. If the eternal Kingdom is within you isn't that the “end of time”? Eternity has no “time”! Everything that happens is “now”! The word of God…was…is…is being….and will be! Thats the eternal word of God. Jesus handed over the Kingdom to God the Father. God has the Kingdom. Gods kingdom is growing within his people…..Gods Kingdom will manifest fully!! Gods kingdom will never end! EVER!! Has Jesus put his enemies under his feet? Yes!….Has Jesus destroyed the “works”/”doctrines of the devil” Yes!….Jesus has subjected all things to us. All power and all authority have been given to Jesus and Jesus gave them to us! What for?… To continue to rise up unto God.
We were saved, in Jesus….We are saved, in Jesus,….We are being saved, in Jesus….We will be saved, in Jesus!! THINK ETERNAL SPIRIT….not mere man! TK
tkALL YOUR “YES ” ARE COMING FROM YOU ,NOT FROM SCRIPTURES ,THERE FOR THEY ARE YOUR TRUTHS NOT MINE ,
in your comment you erase all scriptures that not align with your view and declare as true your own view .Pierre
Pierre: Do you not know the scriptures? In Daniels vision at the time of the Roman Empire God would set up a Kingdom that would never be destroyed! Jesus established the Kingdom of God within all mankind, forever!
All things are under the feet of Jesus…Eph.1:22….Heb.2:8…1Cor.15:25&27
1John3:8….that he might destroy the works of the devil…!
Matt.28:18…All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth….[because I have this power, you] Go ye therefore and teach all nations….to observe all things…WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU!
Where do you come off telling me that what I write has no scriptural foundation!! I don't write anything I can't support with sound scriptural doctrine. TK
Quote (ftk @ Nov. 12 2011,04:32) Pierre: Do you not know the scriptures? In Daniels vision at the time of the Roman Empire God would set up a Kingdom that would never be destroyed! Jesus established the Kingdom of God within all mankind, forever! All things are under the feet of Jesus…Eph.1:22….Heb.2:8…1Cor.15:25&27
1John3:8….that he might destroy the works of the devil…!
Matt.28:18…All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth….[because I have this power, you] Go ye therefore and teach all nations….to observe all things…WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU!
Where do you come off telling me that what I write has no scriptural foundation!! I don't write anything I can't support with sound scriptural doctrine. TK
tkQuote Where do you come off telling me that what I write has no scriptural foundation!! I don't write anything I can't support with sound scriptural doctrine. TK Code Sample (R)is that so ?(R) 1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.AND WHEN IS HIS LAST ENEMY IS DESTROYED ??
WE STILL DIE AND WICKEDNESS STILL VERY WELL IN POWER,Eph 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength,
Eph 1:20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,
Eph 1:21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.
Eph 1:22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,
Eph 1:23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.SO WHAT IS THE “AGE” TO COME WHEN WILL THAT BE ??
Heb 2:8 and put everything under his feet.”
In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.
Heb 2:11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.PAUL SAYS ;; Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. THIS WAS MORE OR LESS 60 YEARS AFTER CHRIST DEAD RIGHT ? WHY DID HE SAY THAT ? IS THIS NOT CONTRADICTORY TO YOUR VIEWS ??
1Jn 3:7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.SO AGAIN IS JOHN NOT SAYING THAT CHRIST APPEARED TO DESTROY THE DEVIL WORKS ? YES THIS IS WHAT IT SAYS ,BUT IS THE DEVIL WORKS DESTROYED ?NO ,IT IS STILL HERE WITH US ,AGAIN ARE YOU NOT THE ONE THAT LEAD US ASTRAY ??
Mt 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”WHAT WAS THE TIME FRAME OF WHAT CHRIST HAS TO DO ?And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” WHEN WOULD THAT BE TK.
NOW I HAVE USE THE SAME SCRIPTURES YOU HAVE BASED YOUR ARGUMENTS ON ,AND ME BY QUOTING THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURES COMES TO A DIFFERENT CONCLUSION, SO IS YOUR FINAL STATEMENT TRUE ??
Pierre
Pierre: Lets take a look at the scriptures you wrote.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.[Hasn't Jesus put all things under his feet?…Didn't Jesus destroy the works of the Devil? Didn't Jesus overcome the world? Are we not in Christ Jesus and over-comers of all our enemies?]
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.[Now if Jesus destroyed evil and death is a part of evil then didn't Jesus destroy death? Are we not dead to trespasses and sin and resurrected to new life in Christ Jesus? Maybe you need to die to look forward to life!]
AND WHEN IS HIS LAST ENEMY IS DESTROYED ??
WE STILL DIE AND WICKEDNESS STILL VERY WELL IN POWER,[you don't overcome by submission! If you accept the word as your truth, to be able to overcome it? Isn't it our “faith'' that overcomes darkness? I guess in your case its all someday in the future!]Eph 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is like the working of his mighty strength,
Eph 1:20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,
Eph 1:21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.[ THE NEW AGE!]
Eph 1:22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,[…WHAT ABOUT EVIL…?]
Eph 1:23 which is his body,[US] the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.[ ARE WE NOT ONE IN CHRIST JESUS? ARE WE NOT INHERITORS OF THESE PROMISES OF GOD?]SO WHAT IS THE “AGE” TO COME THE NEW AGE IS SOWING AND REAPING…. WHEN WILL THAT BE ?? AS EACH INDIVIDUAL ACCEPTS THE TRUTH [YOU CANNOT GROW A GARDEN OVERNIGHT. YOU BEGIN TO SOW, GOOD SEED AND WAIT FOR THE SEED TO GROW INTO A GOOD/PERFECT CROP]
Heb 2:8 and put everything under his feet.” [DOESN'T THAT MEAN THE BODY OF CHRIST? US?]
In putting everything under him, [God left nothing that is not subject to him.] Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.
Heb 2:11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.[ARE BROTHERS NOT EQUAL TO THEIR PARENTS]PAUL SAYS ;; Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him. THIS WAS MORE OR LESS 60 YEARS AFTER CHRIST DEAD RIGHT ? WHY DID HE SAY THAT ? IS THIS NOT CONTRADICTORY TO YOUR VIEWS ??[He was teaching 'New' converts. Come on Pierre, what, NEW AGE are you looking for? The disciples went on to create many miracles and those they preached to performed miracles and those who heard and believed were healed, made whole….this is the abundant life….these are miracle works….THEY ARE THE WORKS OF FAITH FOR TODAY….they are happening now in certain areas…I want them to go world wide. Your not helping!! Pushing off everything as future, in the age to come, down the pike some where in the sweet by and by! SALVATION IS NOW, TODAY, NOW,!!]
1Jn 3:7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray.[Saying these things are in the future, not now!] He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.[DOING RIGHT OR DOING GOOD IS PERFORMING FAITH WORKS OF POWER ON BELIEVERS AND ACCEPTORS. THE ONLY RIGHTEOUSNESS IS BY FAITH…DOING RIGHTEOUSNESS IS WORKING YOUR FAITH ON OTHERS.]
1Jn 3:8 He who does what is sinful[expounding that there is still sin] is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.[Truth destroys un-truth] [Light casts out dark]SO AGAIN IS JOHN NOT SAYING THAT CHRIST APPEARED TO DESTROY THE DEVIL WORKS ? YES THIS IS WHAT IT SAYS ,BUT IS THE DEVIL WORKS DESTROYED ?NO ,IT IS STILL HERE WITH US ,AGAIN ARE YOU NOT THE ONE THAT LEAD US ASTRAY ??[….PIERRE, IT TAKES NO FAITH IN GOD WHATSOEVER TO EXPERIENCE SOMETHING AND THEN SAY GOD DID THAT!!! FAITH IS BELIEVING GOD WILL DO WHAT HE SAID HE WOULD DO…ITS UP TO US TO BE THE HANDS AND LEGS AND MOUTH TO BRING THE GOOD NEWS THAT GOD IS HERE NOW, READY TO WORK HIS WORKS THROUGH WHOSOEVER IS CLEANSED FROM ALL SIN, CLEAN, RIGHTEOUS, AND PERFECT BY FAITH IN HIS WORD…..! ]
Mt 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Mt 28:19 [Therefore go and make disciples of all nations], baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mt 28:20 and [teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you]. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”WHAT WAS THE TIME FRAME OF WHAT CHRIST HAS TO DO ? And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” WHEN WOULD THAT BE The completion of time, the end of time, when the eternal word of God came it is an eternal kingdom that has no time! That is the end of time! [HANG ON THERE PIERRE YOU ARE THE ONE THAT SAY JESUS IS NOT HERE. YOU SAY HE MUST RETURN TO EARTH TO FINISH HIS WORKS….Which is it?….I SAY HE IS HERE NOW, READY TO WORK THROUGH ALL WHO WILL BELIEVE TO SEE. Make disciples of all nations, all peoples, everyone and what would you have….total salvation, no evil, total health and healing, total perfection etc.! Once again Jesus was physically here, establishing a new age….when he left that was the end of the Old Testament Age. ]
NOW I HAVE USE THE SAME SCRIPTURES YOU HAVE BASED YOUR ARGUMENTS ON ,AND ME BY QUOTING THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURES COMES TO A DIFFERENT CONCLUSION, SO IS YOUR FINAL STATEMENT TRUE ??[All my statement that align with what Jesus says, are absolutely true]!! TK
tk
Quote Pierre: Lets take a look at the scriptures you wrote. 1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.[Hasn't Jesus put all things under his feet?…Didn't Jesus destroy the works of the Devil? Didn't Jesus overcome the world? Are we not in Christ Jesus and over-comers of all our enemies?]
NOW WHEN YOU SAY THAT CHRIST REIGN UNTIL ALL ENEMIES ARE UNDER HIS FEET ;;WHEN WAS THIS
WHEN DID JESUS DESTROYED THE WORKS FROM SATAN
Quote 1Jn 3:7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray.[Saying these things are in the future, not now! NOW YOU SAY THAT THOSE WORDS ARE IN THE FUTURE
SORRY FRIEND BUT YOU ARE SO DEEP IN RELIGION DOGMA THAT TRUTH AS BLIND YOU CAN'T SEE OR UNDERSTAND GODS WORDS,YES YOU HAVE A FEW TRUTHS BUT YOU SEEMS LOSING ALL OTHERS,Quote WHAT WAS THE TIME FRAME OF WHAT CHRIST HAS TO DO ? And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” WHEN WOULD THAT BE The completion of time, the end of time, when the eternal word of God came it is an eternal kingdom that has no time! That is the end of time! [HANG ON THERE PIERRE YOU ARE THE ONE THAT SAY JESUS IS NOT HERE. YOU SAY HE MUST RETURN TO EARTH TO FINISH HIS WORKS….Which is it?….I SAY HE IS HERE NOW, READY TO WORK THROUGH ALL WHO WILL BELIEVE TO SEE. Make disciples of all nations, all peoples, everyone and what would you have….total salvation, no evil, total health and healing, total perfection etc.! Once again Jesus was physically here, establishing a new age….when he left that was the end of the Old Testament Age. ] NOW I HAVE USE THE SAME SCRIPTURES YOU HAVE BASED YOUR ARGUMENTS ON ,AND ME BY QUOTING THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURES COMES TO A DIFFERENT CONCLUSION, SO IS YOUR FINAL STATEMENT TRUE ??[All my statement that align with what Jesus says, are absolutely true]!! TK
SURE YOU USE THE SAME SCRIPTURES THAN I HAVE BUT SEE HOW YOU BUTCHER THEM WITH YOUR OWN OPINIONS,THING THAT I DID NOT DO,IN THIS WAY NO WANDER YOU ARE COMING IN A DIFFERENT WORLD BUT NOT THE TRUTH.
no wander Jesus said;;Mt 24:4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you.
Pierre
Pierre: Eph.1:18…that the eyes of [your understanding being enlightened]: that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance [in the saints](NOW)…and what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe,(NOW) according to the working of his mighty power,…V20…which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead(past tense) and set him at his right hand in heavenly places(past tense)…V21…far above all principality, and power, and might , and dominion and every name that is named, [[not only in this world,]] but also in that which is to come:….V22…and hath(past tense) put [all things]….(even your favorite little power character, the devil)…. under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, which is his body(us, mankind)the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
The way I see it is we are the body of Christ that carries this very same FULLNESS OF HIM. We are facsimiles of Jesus if we believe.Heb.2:6…What is man that thou art mindful of him..V7…thou hast made him a little lower than Angels/Grk.Wd.”Elohim”; crownedest him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands…V8…thou hast put all things in subjection [under his feet]…!
You say I butcher the scriptures, so to you, there is no enlightenment of truth from me. To me you read a dead book with no life in it for now. For some time off in the future there are promises of God but no one knows the times or seasons. You have mixed the scriptures. To rise up to heavenly places of mind or to live in enlightenment of truth is for now on this earth, it is not needed in heaven! The table of God is set before us in the presence of our enemies, only on earth, no enemies in heaven. Faith is for earth, to connect man and God as at the beginning. No faith is necessary in
heaven. It is for [life on earth] that Jesus came to show the way to connect to God and be filled with spirit of God. Any part of Gods salvation of man delivered by Jesus is for here, now, on this earth, at the individual time one see's it. The good news is not how to loose your physical life so you can go back to heaven. The gospel is for life on earth in the power of God it was originally intended to be. When we stop believing in evil and all its destroying aspects (the original fall) we will rule/live in the love of God as created. The entire transformation of man is in the mind, first, then it will manifest in life. Just like our Father in Heaven. Believe in lies and deceptions, leading to evil and destruction of life, and what do you get…..DEATH! The last enemy to be destroyed (through enlightenment) is death. Many people are just to busy dying to live! Just believe God for it! TK
tk
Quote The way I see it is we are the body of Christ that carries this very same FULLNESS OF HIM. We are facsimiles of Jesus if we believe. then you are one of the 144k brothers of Christ ??if not then what Paul says is not for you.
Pierre
Pierre: I wonder why you would choose to limit the souls that partake of the tree of life by accepting and abiding in the words of John, over 80 years old, I think he was banished to the island of Patmos, over and above the many scriptures promises from Jesus, that in all cases express,…..''whosoever shall believe'' shall wear white….whether greek, Jew, bond, free, male or female….all are ONE in
Christ!! For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son….THAT ''WHOSOEVER'' WOULD BELIEVE IN HIM…should have everlasting life[eat from the tree of life]
!!
There are hundreds of scriptures, spoken by the lord Jesus that say the entire plan of salvation is for “WHOSOEVER WILL BELIEVE” the words of God through Jesus.Yet you have accepted an errant belief of some measly 144thousand, total, that are chosen of God. God is no respecter of persons. All are equal. There is no way to know how many will accept and believe for their salvation.
Paul did not quote the “144 thousand” scripture….that was John on Patmos at Rev.7:4…..and at Rev. 7:9 it is written…..after this(the 144k)…I looked and lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues, stood before the Lamb, clothed with white robes and palms in their hands..!
I follow the words of Jesus when there is any discrepancy of any kind in scriptures. You choose to follow Johns writing in Revelation which I believe not a living soul on earth actually understands all of revelation at this time!!! A typical belief established from indoctrination!
I am a….”whosoever will believe”…! TK
TK,
I agree with you on many things, we both believe in the love of God, the faith nature of salvation, always ready to error on the side of grace… Where we disagree however is on discrepancies in scripture, I believe that there are no discrepancies beyond those created by; misinterpreting scripture(s), bad translations, or even a few additions over the years to copied manuscripts (which have come to light as such). If there was no such guide provided then we would be free to chose any path we so desired but praise God He gave us His word.So like you I agree that with “whosoever will believe”, but if that belief does not compel one to seek the will of God than that faith is dead.
My opinion – Wm
tk
Quote Christ!! For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son….THAT ''WHOSOEVER'' WOULD BELIEVE IN HIM…should have everlasting life[eat from the tree of life]
!!this I also believe,but being part of the church the body or of the first fruits rather than from the great crowed this is the question,
and it is in this that you get lost in
Pierre
Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 14 2011,21:51) TK,
I agree with you on many things, we both believe in the love of God, the faith nature of salvation, always ready to error on the side of grace… Where we disagree however is on discrepancies in scripture, I believe that there are no discrepancies beyond those created by; misinterpreting scripture(s), bad translations, or even a few additions over the years to copied manuscripts (which have come to light as such). If there was no such guide provided then we would be free to chose any path we so desired but praise God He gave us His word.So like you I agree that with “whosoever will believe”, but if that belief does not compel one to seek the will of God than that faith is dead.
My opinion – Wm
ST: Greetings to a God/Man with peace in his heart and his writings. Your gentleness is felt in your writing!There can be wide discrepancies in interpreting scriptures. Translation from Hebrew/Greek to English is extremely broad in its interpretation. In the scripture…heaven and earth will ''pass'' away but my words shall not ''pass'' away…..the Greek word interpreted “pass'' can accurately be interpreted to mean…to go away or to come forth…two opposite directions!!
So scripture “alignment” with other truth, is just as important as how or what it was translated as. Does it follow the overall “plan of God”? What was the context being spoken at the time the scripture is being scrutinized? I have found many large changes!
It wouldn't be fair for me to say I never miss-translate scriptures but I will say after thousands and thousands of Hebrew and Greek words I have looked up it is unlikely and great effort has been used to accurately transpose the words in context.
If there is a specific phrase or word that you believe I have miss-used or mistranslated please let me clarify.
What I do notice in various translations and amplified versions of the Bible is the original “mistranslations'' just re-phrased, still saying the same thing.
Seeking the “will'' of God is for us to study and partake of his word. The New Will of God in Christ. To know his words through Jesus is to know his will.Jesus is the truth. His word is his will.
If the old way had been of the truth then why the need for Jesus, the truth to come? The New Testament/Will of God. After you find the “will” of God which is his words, can and will you “believe” it? Faith in his will creates life within the believer. IMO, TK
Pierre: What makes you think that you could be in that “144K”? They are 12k from each of the twelve tribes. What tribe are you in? I'm not in any tribe that I know of. I am not of that time period so far as I know. I would say lets go to Jesus and hear the words of God in this matter. If God says….. whichever one of you believes they are washed with my words and cleansed through my words, then they are clean.
That is what I believe. If clean (and that is so through Jesus) then I have no sin. Jesus took away my sin. God dwells in me, therefore no sin can live in my Temple. God cannot dwell in sin. There is no sin in the house of the lord. There is no sin in the body of Christ. There is no sin in the abode of Christ. Jesus took sin away….there is no more sin for those who believe. Thank you Jesus! My lord forever! This is the salvation that is for ……”WHOSOEVER WILL COME AND DRINK”…..”WHOSOEVER WILL COME AND EAT”…..”WHOSOEVER WILL BELIEVE”!! This is the good/gospel news! IMO, TK
Tim,
If you would consider reading something I believe God gave me through an experience, that at least for me exemplified balancing truth (now of course it would help me, but it might help you understand what I'm saying). Arriving at TruthThe whole of scripture is our safeguard against misunderstandings from culture, idioms, or preconceived concepts that can produce perceived errors. I believe the scriptures as given reveals truth, but only if we consider all of them, verifying interpretations, until we find harmony with all scriptures
No I don't have all scriptures harmonizing yet but I've seen enough conflicts disappear over the years of study that I know with further revelations it is achievable.
My opinion – Wm
Wm: I read your dissertation on Arriving at Truth. Yes I agree that especially new people in the deeper truths of God may not have a foundation set and if it is set its not based totally on what Jesus says. Your dissertation is somewhat of a parable story in itself, where it is expected of a person to decipher the basis of truth for himself. So it is with the teachings of Jesus. The reason Jesus spoke much of his teachings to the Jews in parables was that fulfilled what the Prophets had said,….He will open his mouth in parables……they(Jews/religious ones) are ever seeing and ever hearing but never able to discern or come to the truth….! He taught by parable almost all the truths given to the Jews/Scribes/Pharisees…IE: the old religious world order.
All the teachings of the law and the parables of the end of time/old Jewish order were coming to end at that time. The New World arising in truth from God taught by Jesus was of the Kingdom of God at hand. The relationship of man and God in this “New Way” or “New Covenant” is through the words/spirit of God taken within the heart/mind of God. God and Man walking together again as in the beginning.
Jesus taught that the old way was passing with the New Way(connection & union to God) as arriving, as Holy Spirit! Baptism and repentance of John was to make a straight pathway for the New Spirit Truth. Turning from the old way, or dying and being resurrected to New Spirit Life in Christ. Washing away the old sinful beliefs and making way for the infilling of Spirit/Water/Blood/Life through the words of Jesus. The New
Way of truth/spirit. Old things/rituals/works for credit/sacrifices/doctrines are past and behold all new/things/words/doctrines create a new man in Christ.With this basis of truth firmly established follow the vein of truth throughout the New Testament which agrees and establishes the new union/marriage of us/the Church/ the bride of Christ….with the Spirit of God/Jesus/Holy Spirit et.al.!! If we abide in the words of Jesus and his words abide in us then ask what ye will….and it will be done for you! The commandment for today is to love as Jesus loves us!
The end of the (old) world is when we individually accept the eternal words of God through Jesus. The old dies and the we are resurrected to the new. That is the end of that age! The end of the Jewish religious world order! The end of time. Eternal is timeless!
We should all know these things and be growing up in Christ unto perfection to God by Faith. IMO, TK
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