Myth of original sin vicarious atonement

[GeneBalthrop]

Adam………..When God made a Covenant with Abraham as i recall he had him kill a animal and separate its parts in tow two lines and he walked up and down between those parts and said this blood was the sign that sealed the covenant he made with Abraham. Now my point is this, God can make a covenant without sacrificing himself as he did with Abraham right, and use a symbol of some kind to seal the covenant, right.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

[gollamudi]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 07 2011,16:27)

Adam………..When God made a Covenant with Abraham as i recall he had him kill a animal and separate its parts in tow two lines and he walked up and down between those parts and said this blood was the sign that sealed  the covenant he made with Abraham. Now my point is this,  God can make a covenant without sacrificing himself as he did with Abraham right,  and use a symbol of some kind to seal the covenant, right. peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

Hi brother Gene,
I appreciate your response on this thread. In fact I agree that God allowed animal blood for sin atonement in O.T but that was not the only means for such atonement He even allowed bloodless offerings like vegetable flour, money, silver, gold and why not true confession of sins. No where in the O.T it is said that the Covenant maker has to die to seal the Covenant. It is purely the invention of the writer of Hebrews who claimed that Jesus was the Covenant maker and his death sealed that Covenant. In fact he has forgotten that God alone was the Covenant maker who can not die since He is not a mortal like us.

These are my arguments.
Love and peace to you
Adam

[Ed J]

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2011,15:39)

Hi brother Ed, So you mean Jesus is God Himself?

Hi Adam,

Why do you say that?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[gollamudi]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 08 2011,12:14)

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2011,15:39) Hi brother Ed, So you mean Jesus is God Himself? Hi Adam, Why do you say that? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Please refer your earlier post in which you stated that Jesus=Holy Spirit where Holy Spirit=God Himself. Also the Covenant maker was God Himself.

Thanks and peace to you
Adam

[Ed J]

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 08 2011,16:05)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 08 2011,12:14) Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2011,15:39) Hi brother Ed, So you mean Jesus is God Himself? Hi Adam, Why do you say that? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Please refer your earlier post in which you stated that Jesus=Holy Spirit where Holy Spirit=God Himself. Also the Covenant maker was God Himself. Thanks and peace to you Adam

Hi Adam,

I never said Jesus equals “HolySpirit”. I said…
HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ! (Click Here)

It was God's idea, and Jesus sealed the deal. (John 12:27)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[gollamudi]

Hi brother Ed,
In other thread “Holy Spirit is the Word” you inferred that Jesus is the Holy Spirit. Here is another proof for claiming Jesus is God from your earlier post in this thread;

Jesus Christ = The Testator

What does it mean? The Testator or Covenant maker was none but God Himself.

This is the reason why I asked you the earlier question.
Thanks and peace to you
Adam

[kerwin]

Adam,

I have thought about what you wrote in regards to humanity being created with the impulse to do evil as well as the impulse to do good.  I agree that may well be the case but though Adam's choice to sin all humanity became enslaved to sin unless they recieved the Spirit of Holyness from God.  The Spirit of God in its role as the Councelor of Righteousness was only given as part of the new contract between God and man that was sealed by Jesuss' act of self sacrifice.

[Ed J]

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 08 2011,21:10)

Hi brother Ed, In other thread “Holy Spirit is the Word” you inferred that Jesus is the Holy Spirit. Here is another proof for claiming Jesus is God from your earlier post in this thread; Jesus Christ  =  The Testator What does it mean? The Testator or Covenant maker was none but God Himself. This is the reason why I asked you the earlier question. Thanks and peace to you Adam

Hi Adam,

The “HolySpirit”(The Word) was inside Jesus.
God made The Deal through Jesus Christ.
Why is this hard for you to understand?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Proclaimer]

No original sin?

So the first sin was really a few sins that happened concurrently?

Is there an original/first anything?

[gollamudi]

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 12 2011,15:30)

Adam, I have thought about what you wrote in regards to humanity being created with the impulse to do evil as well as the impulse to do good.  I agree that may well be the case but though Adam's choice to sin all humanity became enslaved to sin unless they recieved the Spirit of Holyness from God.  The Spirit of God in its role as the Councelor of Righteousness was only given as part of the new contract between God and man that was sealed by Jesuss' act of self sacrifice.

Yes I agree brother Kerwin on this except on 'slavery to sin' as a result of so called fall of man. In New New Covenant God will write His Laws on the hearts of His people may be by means Spirit of God. There is no necessity of Jesus' death for such New Covenant as per Hebrew Bible. It is purely Christian interpretation.

Peace to you
Adam

[gollamudi]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 12 2011,15:40)

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 08 2011,21:10) Hi brother Ed, In other thread “Holy Spirit is the Word” you inferred that Jesus is the Holy Spirit. Here is another proof for claiming Jesus is God from your earlier post in this thread; Jesus Christ  =  The Testator What does it mean? The Testator or Covenant maker was none but God Himself. This is the reason why I asked you the earlier question. Thanks and peace to you Adam Hi Adam, The “HolySpirit”(The Word) was inside Jesus. God made The Deal through Jesus Christ. Why is this hard for you to understand? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

That is purely Christian interpretation brother Ed. That is why the concept of God is dead arrived.

Peace to you
Adam

[gollamudi]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 12 2011,16:31)

No original sin? So the first sin was really a few sins that happened concurrently? Is there an original/first anything?

Is there any thing called 'Original sin' which affected mankind for which a Vicarious death of a god-man required?

[Ed J]

Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 12 2011,22:54)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 12 2011,15:40) Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 08 2011,21:10) Hi brother Ed, In other thread “Holy Spirit is the Word” you inferred that Jesus is the Holy Spirit. Here is another proof for claiming Jesus is God from your earlier post in this thread; Jesus Christ  =  The Testator What does it mean? The Testator or Covenant maker was none but God Himself. This is the reason why I asked you the earlier question. Thanks and peace to you Adam Hi Adam, The “HolySpirit”(The Word) was inside Jesus. God made The Deal through Jesus Christ. Why is this hard for you to understand? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org That is purely Christian interpretation brother Ed. That is why the concept of God is dead arrived. Peace to you Adam

Hi Adam,

YHVH cannot die!

Take a closer look at the parable in Luke 10:30-36. It's a
parable about Jesus. Also look at the Parable in Luke 20:9-18.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[gollamudi]

Hi brother Ed,
Please tell us what do you want to convey from this passage about Good Samaritan?

[mikeboll64]

Hi Adam,

I'm stopping by briefly because you hinted that I should in the other thread.

From your very first post we learn that the original sin of Adam brought sin and death to us all.  It is written in the scripture you yourself quoted.

From there, your argument is only based upon the fact that you don't believe ALL of the scriptures, like Romans 5:12.  Your argument is, “Yes it IS in the scriptures, but not in the part of the scriptures I choose to believe in”.

But I believe the words of Paul were as inspired as the words of Moses, so I have nothing else of import to add to this discussion.

Thanks for the invite,
mike

[gollamudi]

Thank brother Mike to have time to look into this thread.

[princess]

why does the 'original sin' reflect adam?

[gollamudi]

Quote (princess @ Feb. 13 2011,05:53)

why does the 'original sin' reflect adam?

So that is the question coined here.

[kerwin]

Mike Boll,

Actually,  Adam is of the opinion that the words of God are in conflict with the words of Mosses and the Prophets.  The question you should address is how you as a believer see things differently since Scripture cannot conflictl

It is true if one believes what God states then they must understand it correctly.  Do you?

If you do then share that others may benefit.  If you don't then ask, seek, and find and share with a loving spirit what you find with others that your and they may be sharpened by God.

[gollamudi]

Good question brother Kerwin. In fact I don't believe that First five books in the Bible were written by Moses as well.

Peace to you
Adam

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