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Quote (thethinker @ June 11 2009,03:42) Paladin wrote: Quote Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? 5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. 6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm? Divine WORMS? Is the son of a worm divine?
To All,
Let's see if Paladin's definition of the term “Son of Man” in reference to Jesus is in agreement with God the Father's definition. The Scripture says this:Quote When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philipi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man am?” So they said, “Some say John the baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets,” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus answered him and said, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN” (Matthew 16:13-17)
To Peter there was an identity of the terms “Son of man”, “Christ” and “Son of God.” Jesus affirmed Peter's definition by saying that His Father revealed this to him. It certainly looks like Paladin is at odds with the Father whom he says is his God.
thinker
Will the real “thinker” please stand up?(thinker)
Quote
To Peter there was an identity of the terms “Son of man”, “Christ” and “Son of God.” Jesus affirmed Peter's definition by saying that His Father revealed this to him.What does “there was an identity of terms” mean? Do you mean they are “identical?” Do you mean they all mean the same thing? Or do you mean they all reference the same person?
There is no such thing as “identity of terms.”
And where did Jesus say anything about “Peter's definition?”
Peter didn't “define” anything. He responded to a question about who men say the son of man is.Quote (thethinker @ June 12 2009,02:39) bodhitharts said: Quote So wherever Jesus was this man also went so did Jesus go to heaven or paradise and is heaven, “paradise” because Jesus went there according to Jesus. bd,
We are in agreement that the thief on the cross went to paradise with Jesus. But paradise was NOT heaven. It was a place where the righteous dead went until Christ completed His work of atonement. Men could not go directly to God apart from Christ's atoning work. If so then it would not have been necessary for Christ to die. I give you a note about “paradise.”Quote Paradise: A Persian word for “garden”, which came to mean the place of the righteous dead (Reformation Study Bible note on Luke 23:24) Men could not go directly to God without the sacrificial death of Christ. Before Christ's atoning work men went to hades which was divided into separate compartments for the righteous and the wicked. The righteous went to that part which was called “paradise.” I believe that Enoch and Elijah and David and all the righteous went there before the cross. I believe that after Christ reconciled men to God they went directly to God. Therefore, “paradise” is no longer necessary now. Men go directly to God now.
How could men have gone directly to God before Christ reconciled them to God? Jesus literally said, “Not one man has ascended into heaven except the Son of Man who came down from heaven.” Note that He said “NOT ONE.” But men go directly to God now!
Quote Trust me thinker you will find nothing but a friend in me. Thank you! I will try to be more patient in my posts to you.
thinker
Hi TT,
Where does scripture say men go directly to God?
The mansions of Christ[jn14] are not God.Paladin said:
Quote And where did Jesus say anything about “Peter's definition?”
Peter didn't “define” anything. He responded to a question about who men say the son of man is.Lord please give me patience!
MATTHEW'S VERSION:
Jesus said,
Quote Who do men say that I, THE SON OF MAN am? Peter replied saying,
Quote You are the Christ, the Son of the living God Jesus answered,
Quote My Father has revealed this to you The Father revealed to Peter that the Son of Man was the Christ, the Son of the living God.
PALADIN'S VERSION:
Jesus said,
Quote Who do men say that I THE WORM am?[/b] Peter replied,
Quote You are a worm that is the Christ, the Son of the living God Jesus answered,
Quote My Father has revealed this to you The Father revealed to Peter that a worm was the Christ, the Son of the living God.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ June 13 2009,08:20) Paladin said: Quote And where did Jesus say anything about “Peter's definition?”
Peter didn't “define” anything. He responded to a question about who men say the son of man is.Lord please give me patience!
MATTHEW'S VERSION:
Jesus said,
Quote Who do men say that I, THE SON OF MAN am? Peter replied saying,
Quote You are the Christ, the Son of the living God Jesus answered,
Quote My Father has revealed this to you The Father revealed to Peter that the Son of Man was the Christ, the Son of the living God.
PALADIN'S VERSION:
Jesus said,
Quote Who do men say that I THE WORM am?[/b] Peter replied,
Quote You are a worm that is the Christ, the Son of the living God Jesus answered,
Quote My Father has revealed this to you The Father revealed to Peter that a worm was the Christ, the Son of the living God.
thinker
You can't blame Paladin that this was said:Job 25:6 (King James Version)
6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?
You do realize that God said that Job was perfect and upright, don't you?
So why don't you say that Job was wrong?
Quote (thethinker @ June 13 2009,08:20) Paladin said: Quote And where did Jesus say anything about “Peter's definition?”
Peter didn't “define” anything. He responded to a question about who men say the son of man is.Lord please give me patience!
MATTHEW'S VERSION:
Jesus said,
Quote Who do men say that I, THE SON OF MAN am? Peter replied saying,
Quote You are the Christ, the Son of the living God Jesus answered,
Quote My Father has revealed this to you The Father revealed to Peter that the Son of Man was the Christ, the Son of the living God.
PALADIN'S VERSION:
Jesus said,
Quote Who do men say that I THE WORM am?[/b] Peter replied,
Quote You are a worm that is the Christ, the Son of the living God Jesus answered,
Quote My Father has revealed this to you The Father revealed to Peter that a worm was the Christ, the Son of the living God.
thinker
Hey thinker, who was the idiot who said “son of man” is a divine title?I have shown you that “son of man” can reference anything from a worm to the son of God. NONE of them are “divine titles.”
Even “Son of God” is not a divine title, it is a reference. No wonder trinitarians can't focus, they have so many side issues to try to remember; issues having nothing whatsoever to do with reality. “son of man = divine title!” Really?
Even “Christ” is not a divine title. It is a Greek word that is equivalent to the Hebrew “Messiah,” both of which mean “anointed,” and was applicable to priests, kings, and prophets, none of whom were “divine.”
So please, stop with all the silly stuff.
Deal with the issues.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 10 2009,18:36) Hi BD,
The last is the greatest.
Make your choice.
The Quran is the book that makes thing clear, If Jodi had read the Quran she would not be so unclear about the nature of Satan, and if WJ and TT would have read the Quran they would not be so unclear about the Messiah.Hi BD,
Does the teacher need help?
Does the Lord of all need a explanations from one of his minions?
Even if he did, and I do not believe so, why would you not follow him and prefer the explanations to the originals??Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2009,07:16) Hi BD,
Does the teacher need help?
Does the Lord of all need a explanations from one of his minions?
Even if he did, and I do not believe so, why would you not follow him and prefer the explanations to the originals??
I don't know if you noticed but we all here have been explaining and teaching.As I said before Paul wrote after Jesus and most teachings of Christ are derived from Paul.
The Quran is clarity.
Hi BD,
Many of the works of carnal literature as clear as a bell.
However we do not offer them as equal to the Word of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2009,11:59) Hi BD,
Christ was in Paul. [Gal]
Was Christ in your leader?
let me ask you this, Daniel received information from Gabriel and you accept it.Was Christ in Daniel?
Daniel 9:20-22 (King James Version)
20And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;
21Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
22And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
Luke 1:18-20 (King James Version)
18And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
19And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
Now are you prepared to say with certainty that God did not send Gabriel to Muhammad as it says in the Quran?
Hi BD,
No doubt the Spirit of Christ was in all the prophets.[1Peter1]
But claiming to be a prophet does not make you one.No 500 year latecomers who would set up a new religion mentioned by Jesus
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2009,12:37) Hi BD,
No doubt the Spirit of Christ was in all the prophets.[1Peter1]
But claiming to be a prophet does not make you one.No 500 year latecomers who would set up a new religion mentioned by Jesus
Was Jesus a latecomer.You are bias for no particular reason.
there were four hundred years between the OT and the NT testaments
So just like thinker I will let you help me help you understand by the grace of God.
Also there is no new religion Jesus did not set out to start a new religion because he was clarifying what The Father had sent down before him.
Can you honestly say that God did not send Gabriel to Muhammad?
Was Paul necessary at all?
Hi BD,
Having found our Lord we are not seeking for others.The division from Judaism and the sons of God is open evidence that Islam is not of God.
Yet you quote their sacred words as if you love them while upholding alongside the words of a stranger?
Hi BD,
Jesus is Lord of all.
Yet you live your life according to the rules of another.Is your Lord greater than the Lord Jesus Christ?
Hi BD,
Is there a record in your writings of your leader submitting in obedience to and extolling Jesus Christ as his Lord and teaching that all his followers should do likewise?Hi BD,
Paul was a mouthpiece for the Lord Jesus Christ and his God.
He did not lift himself up or work on his own behalf.
A truly wise and powerfully blessed servant.So how does your master align with Paul and Jesus and God?
Can you bypass the mediator appointed by God?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2009,13:38) Hi BD,
Having found our Lord we are not seeking for others.The division from Judaism and the sons of God is open evidence that Islam is not of God.
Yet you quote their sacred words as if you love them while upholding alongside the words of a stranger?
Christianity is not aligned with Judaism and Jews do not accept Christ as their Mediator or as Christ, Islam calls Jesus The Christ who is right Judaism or Islam?
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