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Hi KW.
You say
“The body of Moses was physically caught up to heaven after Satan’s attempt to keep it on earth where its burial place would be known.”No flesh is in heaven
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdomQuote (kerwin @ May 17 2014,08:13) Nick, We are to test the spirit for Satan comes as an angel of light.
Hi KW,
How can you do that if you teach outside scripture?
2jn9Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 17 2014,03:45) Hi KW.
You say
“The body of Moses was physically caught up to heaven after Satan’s attempt to keep it on earth where its burial place would be known.”No flesh is in heaven
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom
Nick,I see too many people claim those words say what they do not because they lack knowledge nor do they want to seek it.
It is speaking of the new heaven and the new earth and not of those that will pass away. That is what the word inherit means. It does not say only spirits can enter the kingdom of heaven as some seem to insist is states.
It does not say that creatures of flesh cannot inherit the new earth. It instead says creature of flesh and blood cannot inherit the world to come. Even then “flesh and blood” is an idiom with several different meanings. One of them is mortal body.
In his later letter to the Corinthians the same writer stated he did not know whether or not a man was caught up into heaven in his body or out of his body. If he knew a man could enter heaven in a body he would not have written that.
Hi KW,
Scripture says
1Cor 15
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.You say
“It does not say that creatures of flesh cannot inherit the new earth. It instead says creature of flesh and blood cannot inherit the world to come”There is a difference
Hi KW,
You say
In his later letter to the Corinthians the same writer stated he did not know whether or not a man was caught up into heaven in his body or out of his body. If he knew a man could enter heaven in a body he would not have written that.
So he did not know and yet you derive the idea it could have been his body because of that?
Nick,
I am not saying whether or not the man spoke of enter heaven in a body as all I require to point out the flaw in the reasoning of those who say no one could enter heaven in body is that Paul did not know.
To claim Paul knew in his first letter that a human body could not enter the current heaven but forgot that fact by his second letter is an absurd claim.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 17 2014,05:40) Hi KW,
Scripture says
1Cor 15
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.You say
“It does not say that creatures of flesh cannot inherit the new earth. It instead says creature of flesh and blood cannot inherit the world to come”There is a difference
Nick,There is a difference but it can be hard to catch. The first time I only mentioned flesh and the second time I mentioned the combination of flesh and blood.
Some claim that flesh and bone can inherit the kingdom but flesh and blood cannot. They have reason on their side but I see what I find a better explanation and that is that flesh and blood is an idiom of the time that meant mortal body.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 18 2014,01:44) Hi KW,
So just human word usage.
Are the words of scripture not sacred to you?
Nick,Do you bother reading and comprehending Scripture. Words are important to correctly understand them. Jesus and Peter both reason based on words. Be wise and seek God and his kingdom.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 18 2014,01:46) Hi KW,
He did not KNOW.
It has nothing to do with whether he could have or not.
Nick,Are you being difficult or do you truly have trouble understanding my words?
If Paul did not know whether a body could enter heaven in his second letter then he did not know if it could enter heaven in his first letter. Those claiming he did know based on the words of 1 Corinthians 15:50 are clearly in error.
Hi:
Someone stated that the scriptures do not state that Enoch did not die, but:
Quote Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But Jesus is the firstborn again from the dead. No man after dying a physical death other than Jesus according to my understanding of the scriptures has ever ascended into heaven. Moses died, the scriptures state that he did, and that he was buried. What happened to the body, if they could not find it, God only knows. Somebody could have moved it elsewhere or whatever you want to speculate, but the scriptures do not state that he ascended into heaven. His body went to the grave.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 19 2014,03:44) Hi: Someone stated that the scriptures do not state that Enoch did not die, but:
Quote Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. But Jesus is the firstborn again from the dead. No man after dying a physical death other than Jesus according to my understanding of the scriptures has ever ascended into heaven. Moses died, the scriptures state that he did, and that he was buried. What happened to the body, if they could not find it, God only knows. Somebody could have moved it elsewhere or whatever you want to speculate, but the scriptures do not state that he ascended into heaven. His body went to the grave.
Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,You do realize the word translated means changed.
By faith Enoch was changed so he would not experience death.
It is like you do not understand the idiom “not see death” in this passage but get the correct understanding in Luke 2:26. To see death is to die.
John 8:51 and Psalm 89:48 both also use the same idiom.
First born means most important of the born.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 19 2014,01:33) Hi KW,
Faith and theology are incompatible too
NickSo according to you “the study of god and god's relation to the world” is incompatible with faith.
Hi KW,
The natural human mind cannot grasp the ways of God1Cor 2
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
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