- This topic is empty.
- Posts
JustAskin
Quote The word 'Sin' applies to the whole of humanity.
Only from where you are standing. It would be absurd to name me as the commodore of a yacht club if I did not belong to a yacht club, and it is just as ridiculous to call me a sinner when I am not a member of any of the clubs that call people sinners. If you were to insist on me accepting your sin-calling (and a libel at that) then you should also be expected to accept all the names you are called by all the religions you deny, and racial names against your ethnicity, and so forth. I reject your accusation just as you reject others’ accusations against you.Quote Denying such dos not absolve one of responsibility. Ignorance is not a defence…for the Scriptures will be preached throughout the entire earth…and then the end will come…that none may be in ignorance and say, 'Lord, I did not know you'.
The scriptures of other religions are also preached throughout the earth and they give little quarter to any unbeliever. Do you pay attention to the similar threats of islam? If not, why should I pay attention to your christian club threats?Quote And for this reason, Jesus went in Spirit, by the Holy Spirit, to speak to the lost ones from the days of Noah, so they, even they may have the chance of salvation in the last day.
Your credibility is stretched merely by you claiming to know what Jesus actually said.Quote Here is a call for Scientific Wisdom. Come close and check this…
How did Jesus 'go back' to those in the days of Noah and preach to them if they were/are already dead. Hint, the spirit of God in one knows no dimensional boundaries, whether Space, nor Time. Hard to understand? Not to JustAskin, yet, …yet, Science is seeking to achieve such while denying the one whom it is already an inate feature. Science wants to sayn, 'it invented it'.
Science says nothing about any gods. That is because there is no unambiguous evidence that gods exist, and even if there were gods then the evidence is pretty clear that none of them are the Judeo-christian one, if Judeo-christian scripture is the description to use. Come up with a brilliant biochemist who is a pretty poor engineer with a bizarre fixation on beetles and a cavalier attitude to the things he incompetently designed, and you are getting closer to a possible god. Of course there is still no unambiguous evidence FOR the existence of such a thing.You are still referring to yourself in the third person. Have you been checked out for megalomania?
How do you know your god is not limited by dimentional boundaries? You would indulge in the hypocrisy of making out that your god is mysterious, then claim to know all about it.
Quote Stu, there is nothing that man createsm discovers, invents, designs or conceive that God has not already done and is not within God's control that he has limited man to be able to achieve.
Another assertion that can be as easily dismissed as asserted.Quote Think, (don't think, believe), you are a parent, a clever, intelligent, wise, loving parent (Ok, try and think of someone who is that).
Is there anything that you would allow your child to dabble with that you did not already know the outcome of?
It would be a foolhardy and irresponsible parent who did (Talking idealistically)
So then, what of God. God will not allow mankind to destroy the earth. He will allow us t discover small and large things and manufacture them to our liking…this is freedom, freedom that the animals do not have and angels cannot receive.
I would think no parent would claim to know the outcome of most of the dabbling of their children. Each human is genetically unique and will find his own path in the world, and I don’t think there are many parents who would be able to pre-empt the outcomes or even want to do that, unless they are cruel control freaks. Of course you would do everything to prevent serious harm, is that what you meant?Quote So what has science discovered that the ancients did not already know?
Indeed what has any religion ever “revealed” that was not already known or invented by humans?Quote In fact, just the refinements, disease, the cause of, the effect of, the higher atmostphere, …a few things that could not be fathomed by the 'childlike minds' of the people of the day. Yet, they could calculate better than even the SuperComputers of 21st Century man. How so, have we retrograded..perhaps, as we give more and more of our 'spirit', the authority and power of man, to the one made of the sands of the sea who was crippled and yet still lives, the great silicon machine.
The ancients did not have a germ theory of disease. The bible mentions certain washing rituals, but if it had contained a divinely inspired line like “disease is caused by organisms too small to be seen” then the last couple of millennia of human history would have been radically different. Religious scriptures contain nothing surprisingly helpful at all.I think you are trying to say there is more to the universe than the discoveries we have made, but actually you cannot articulate what it is: in many of your recent posts you have asserted that there is something “higher” going on, but you have made no observation of the world that actually demands investigation of that idea. You get stuck at the word “why” and cannot articulate any further what it is you mean to ask. With so many such failures under your belt how long will it be before you actually question the mantra that there is something “extra” to consider at all? If I can invent platitudes that sound convincing to a believer, then maybe god belief really is a delusion of human brains that have adapted to be deluded in exactly this way, for whatever survival advantage it gave. I am sad for you that the universe is not sufficiently full of wonder as it is: you seem desperate for there to be supernatural conspiracies as well. It is not unreasonable to tell you that the conspiracies are all in your imagination.
Stuart
Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 05 2010,05:17) Bod, seems like you been hooked up with the wrong sort of Christian and now tainting all with the same brush. The Catholics, the offspring of the Abomination, now them you can go to town on. But don't believe that all Christian are as such like them.
Here in this forum, there are many with many beliefs. You need to be more pointed at whom you are claiming against…and you may be right in some instances but hurtful in another towards the truth of that other.
By not thinking pointedly you can never see the truth because you will always be able to say, 'well, he does wrong', and, 'he said falsely', and, 'she proclaims unrighteously', yet all are lumped together and the next you say, 'he is right concerning this and that but because the …others… were wrong, then he must also be wrong some time, too. So i'm not going to be convinced'
I apologize if that was a bit to general. No, I do not feel that way about Christians in general at all and actually I do not feel that way in general at all I was just making a point.Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 05 2010,11:02) Stu, You are a true student of Satan.
Good night to you.
I am right though, aren't I.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Sep. 05 2010,14:28) Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 05 2010,11:02) Stu, You are a true student of Satan.
Good night to you.
I am right though, aren't I.Stuart
Now Stuart, I would not go that far……………Quote (Stu @ Sep. 05 2010,08:07) Quote Only from where you are standing. It would be absurd to name me as the commodore of a yacht club if I did not belong to a yacht club, and it is just as ridiculous to call me a sinner when I am not a member of any of the clubs that call people sinners. If you were to insist on me accepting your sin-calling (and a libel at that) then you should also be expected to accept all the names you are called by all the religions you deny, and racial names against your ethnicity, and so forth. I reject your accusation just as you reject others’ accusations against you. To say that you are a sinner(defined as someone who refuses to acknowledge or be obedient to God) would be an accurate term and how can it be slanderous if you do not even believe in God?
Quote The scriptures of other religions are also preached throughout the earth and they give little quarter to any unbeliever. Do you pay attention to the similar threats of islam? If not, why should I pay attention to your christian club threats? The problem here is besides any theological differences the belief in God is paramount within any religion one can stop being a sinner but you are not a believer so you remain a sinner in any religion
Quote Your credibility is stretched merely by you claiming to know what Jesus actually said. No more than you claiming to know what Socrates said
Quote Science says nothing about any gods. That is because there is no unambiguous evidence that gods exist, Why be misleading, science says everything about “gods” because science only means knowledge and theology is the study of the knowledge of God. You understand? Tech-n-ology. anthropology(Study of humans) psychology(study of the mind)you get the idea right?
Quote and even if there were gods then the evidence is pretty clear that none of them are the Judeo-christian one, if Judeo-christian scripture is the description to use. Come up with a brilliant biochemist who is a pretty poor engineer with a bizarre fixation on beetles and a cavalier attitude to the things he incompetently designed, and you are getting closer to a possible god. Of course there is still no unambiguous evidence FOR the existence of such a thing. I keep explaining to you that however you understand God does not equate with lack of evidence of God just the lack of desire to understand anything bout God. For instance the entire creation is before your eyes without any ambiguity all your senses testify against you.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 04 2010,20:18) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 04 2010,17:48) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 03 2010,04:27) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 03 2010,08:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 29 2010,15:35) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 29 2010,17:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 27 2010,05:32) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Aug. 27 2010,10:29) Even Moses Sister and brother were about to betry Moses.
Who is sinless? They had to repent again and again and again and again.
IT was never ending,
And not only that, how many times does one really sin?
can you really remember all the sins to repent for?
A continued atonement for sin all the time?
That is why we must rely on the Mercy of God remembering that God knows:Psalm 78:38-40 (King James Version)
38But he, being full of compassion, forgave their iniquity, and destroyed them not: yea, many a time turned he his anger away, and did not stir up all his wrath.
39For he remembered that they were but flesh; a wind that passeth away, and cometh not again.
40How oft did they provoke him in the wilderness, and grieve him in the desert!
So we rely on The Merciful, The Compassionate
God is SLOW to Anger, but doesnt mean he will not EVENTUALLY react.Just like Niniveh, God pardoned them through jonah, and than finally sent Nahum (or by a letter) and in the end they were destroyed off the face of the earth.
So point being, just because God gave a pardon at one point, doesnt mean that he will eventually finsih off what we started.
Thats my point how can a sinful person, who continues to react in sin, or in other words in disobediance, who has a lying tongue, who heart is deceitfully wicked,
in other words HATES God, not through words, but through there actions and desires of the flesh, really repent by themselves?
what do you mean repent by themselves?
As in that they have no desire to repent
I agree 100% because many are so deeply invested in their sins that their desire of sin is greater that their desire to please God.The life of this world is alluring to those who reject faith, and they scoff at those who believe. But the righteous will be above them on the Day of Resurrection; for Allah bestows His abundance without measure on whom He will.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #212)When the suffering reached them from us, why then did they not learn humility? On the contrary their hearts became hardened, and Satan made their (sinful) acts seem alluring to them.
( سورة الأنعام , Al-Anaam, Chapter #6, Verse #43)Remember Satan made their (sinful) acts seem alluring to them, and said: “No one among men can overcome you this day, while I am near to you”: But when the two forces came in sight of each other, he turned on his heels, and said: “Lo! I am clear of you; lo! I see what ye see not; Lo! I fear Allah. for Allah is strict in punishment.”
( سورة الأنفال , Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #48)
Than it goes back to the logic,
that since Mankind has no desire to repent,
than there is a need for atonement that will settle things once and for all, since the desire is once and for all.
I didn't think I was coming across that way, sorry about that. Many desire closeness to God and there has always been those that love the guidance of God that is why Jesus said he didn't come for those who have that natural inclination(Righteous) but those who are sinners. The fact is everyone is not a “sinner” if they were Jesus would not have made the distinction himself.You know I find it funny that many people will take some things Jesus says and actually add feelings to what was written like as if he meant something he said sarcastically or he meant to be sneaky when he said something.
For instance when Jesus asks why did somone call him good and then say none is good but God, some people will say “Jesus was implying that calling him good was calling him “God” but the fact is Jesus was simply being humble and giving all glory to God not even calling himself good.
When Jesus say he didn't come for the righteous some people will claim that Jesus was insinuating that people were being self-righteous and that's simply not what the scripture says many people in the scriptures are called righteous and God refers to “righteous” people all the time.
The fact is everyone can sin but not everybody does sin it's really not that eas to sin in the first place unless a person is an Atheist i.e. not loving God with all their heart, soul and mind.
Other than that how hard is it to not bear false witness, abstain from blood, fornicate, commit adultery, steal or any other obviously improper thing. Sometimes we even go too far even making up sins in some churches. Seriously, with no scriptural soundness some churches will condemn all sorts of activities and call them sins worthy of hell when they are not “Sins” at all.
The fact is you are not going to hell because you watch TV I don't care what program it is, listening to the radio, dancing, smoking cigarettes, doing drugs, hanging out all night wih friends, having crazy sweaty sex with your wife in all sorts of positions, eating gormet food on the beach with an ice cold brew watching the sunrise. Your life was not meant to sit in a pew with a sad face lacking all joy in the fear that any false move and hell is your end.
Now of course someone should exercise self-control in their life but we should not call what is not a sin a sin. In some Islamic countries where women where the burka that's not something that's in the Quran it simply like the Bible says that a women should be moderate in dress(a man also) but the reason is not because it's a sin to wear beautiful adornments the fact is others who do sin might be tempted to molest them. Remember our temptations in life are nothing more than over reactions to all the things God created for us.
You see a woman a
nd automatically it catches your attention and mankind has a strong imagination so just showing the stomach and a little leg and the hearts get racing it's strang because even where there are nuns or burkas a man will still need to restrain his glances because even that may excite someone but if a man can free up all that sexual tension by having guilt free love with his own wife he can easily exhaust much of that.Why tell a priest not to have a wife it is not a commandment and the reason for it was political anyway because you don't want priest having babies and grow up political in a church that's very dangerous for those in power so it happens that creating celibate priests is creating homosexual tendecies and it's not how people think that some homosexuals are simply signing up, these in most cases were perfectly good men told to ignore their natural God given sexual urges and you cannot defeat nature at all so you will wind up with all sorts of problems isn't it true that where you find noncelibate priests you don't find a molestation problem.
I think Bod we misunderstood what Jesus said,
Jesus made a distinction to show you who he was looking for,
in this we agree.But here is the purpose of what he said. He does not seek of whom is righteous. Psychologicaly speaking we ALL look to be righteous, NO one does what they beleive is wrong, they excuse it to be their version of Right.
therefore he does not look for those who seek to be righteous but takes those who are sinners,
How do you become a sinner? only through the Law, for the Law made NOTHING perfect.
so lets be clear, no man has the real desire naturally to seek God, WE LOVE GOD because he LOVES US FIRST.
WE look for God, beceuase he DREW us in.The distinction was the Condition, the Desire. Jesus said if you seek your own life, than you cannot enter the kindgom of Heaven,
Jesus spoke of a rebrith, and how we must DENY ourselves.following this same logic, than he does not seek those who are not willing to deny themselves, (the Righteous) What man can really submit himself honestly? in honest man would admit he is a sinner, and has come short. Its the best way to go. Why? because COMPARED to Gods Justice, can we really IMPRESS God? ITs betters to be honest and say you know what im not the best, i have flaws, i need help.
We are beings of relationship not independancies. for the Righteous will not seek God, but the sinnners NEED God.
a Person not willing to deny himself is a person who has no need of God.Quote Seriously, with no scriptural soundness some churches will condemn all sorts of activities and call them sins worthy of hell when they are not “Sins” at all.
What the church did, is the Sin. Sin is not what always look bad, but what looks appealing, like the fruit in the garden. what they said is sin is not sin, but what they imposed and their action in imposing what is sin, is a sin. Get it?
They mislead people and that is screwing with God.Quote The fact is you are not going to hell because you watch TV I don't care what program it is, listening to the radio, dancing, smoking cigarettes, doing drugs, hanging out all night wih friends, having crazy sweaty sex with your wife in all sorts of positions, eating gormet food on the beach with an ice cold brew watching the sunrise. Your life was not meant to sit in a pew with a sad face lacking all joy in the fear that any false move and hell is your end.
All of that is circumstantial, because when any of things REPLACE God, than thats where your lost. But ITS SO EASY for any of that to take over our lives and let it become our UNOFFICAL God, without even knowing it.
If were would put this in the terms of a relationship, lets say that Love is regonized by time and honesty and devotion. what you do with your time freely is what you love, Yet we do not spend any time for God, do we really love him?Quote Remember our temptations in life are nothing more than over reactions to all the things God created for us.
exactly
and the whole priest thing, totally agree with you.In the end,
Lets go back to the point,
IS that WE are really disgusting type of people,Who used the simple things that God created and corrupt them to fit our nasty fanasties.
in turn these fanasties REPLACE GOD.Can this natural way of behaving can be simply cured by a forever false atonement that we just sit and pray again and again and again and again and again,
and our prayers for forgivenss could never catch up with the sins we make, and eventually it will be in vain.The only thing that could save us is a PROMISE,
A contract, a way to get out of this lifestyle and become a holy people by becoming the oppisite of whats natural to us.For the Law condemed us as sinners, without the law we could not know this. But the Promise of a redeemer, of someone who is Perfect and NOT Condemned by the Law, can save us from the lifestyle and seperation from God.
My point simply is this, that a daily repentance has no affect eternaly because we love sinning, and its in our nature to do so. We neeeded a way out eteranlly and forever, sooooo we need a one time scarfice to do it ONCE and FOR All.
I believe that God draws us in, everythign that is Good comes from God. if you love, thats from God. Therefore we are without any glory, for God has all honor and glory.
In the end, God did it all.
Does this make any sense?
No! Emphatically, NO! It is wonderful to enjoy life! Who says enjoying life need replace God? God HIMSELF agree that MAN should not be alone. God gave Man everything and told him to happy with everything. We have polluted our own inheritance trying to know what is good and what is bad.
God warned us of this pollution and I will have nothing to do with it. I will eat ,drink and be happy and I will cling to the breast of my wife. Why do you want me to feel guilty or bad for doing what God told me I must do?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 06 2010,07:11) No! Emphatically, NO! It is wonderful to enjoy life! Who says enjoying life need replace God? God HIMSELF agree that MAN should not be alone. God gave Man everything and told him to happy with everything. We have polluted our own inheritance trying to know what is good and what is bad. God warned us of this pollution and I will have nothing to do with it. I will eat ,drink and be happy and I will cling to the breast of my wife. Why do you want me to feel guilty or bad for doing what God told me I must do?
lol you totally didnt understand what i said.
You didnt really listen,Thats not the point.
Really think about it,
I didnt say its wrong to enjoy life did i?
Did i NOT agree with you?
or did i agree with you? (which i did)I have beening talking about the number ten all this time,
and your still stuck on number 5.Quote (princess of the king @ Sep. 06 2010,00:03) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 05 2010,14:28) Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 05 2010,11:02) Stu, You are a true student of Satan.
Good night to you.
I am right though, aren't I.Stuart
Now Stuart, I would not go that far……………
Perhaps you are up to the task of telling me on what points I am wrong, and why.I really don't think JustAskin is.
Stuart
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 06 2010,16:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 06 2010,07:11) No! Emphatically, NO! It is wonderful to enjoy life! Who says enjoying life need replace God? God HIMSELF agree that MAN should not be alone. God gave Man everything and told him to happy with everything. We have polluted our own inheritance trying to know what is good and what is bad. God warned us of this pollution and I will have nothing to do with it. I will eat ,drink and be happy and I will cling to the breast of my wife. Why do you want me to feel guilty or bad for doing what God told me I must do?
lol you totally didnt understand what i said.
You didnt really listen,Thats not the point.
Really think about it,
I didnt say its wrong to enjoy life did i?
Did i NOT agree with you?
or did i agree with you? (which i did)I have beening talking about the number ten all this time,
and your still stuck on number 5.
Lol…Okay, then I join you at number 10Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 06 2010,18:25) Hmm to Add Bod,
dont forget the First commandment
Exactly, and the only way to do that is to listen to God's first command.Be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth. If we are truly grateful for all God has given us it is then we show that we love God with all our heart , soul and mind.
Then do ye remember Me; I will remember you. Be grateful to Me, and reject not Faith.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #152)It is He Who created you from a single person, and made his mate of like nature, in order that he might dwell with her (in love). When they are united, she bears a light burden and carries it about (unnoticed). When she grows heavy, they both pray to Allah their Lord, (saying): “If Thou givest us a goodly child, we vow we shall (ever) be grateful.”
( سورة الأعراف , Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #189)And remember! your Lord caused to be declared (publicly): “If ye are grateful, I will add more (favours) unto you; But if ye show ingratitude, truly My punishment is terrible indeed.”
( سورة إبراهيم , Ibrahim, Chapter #14, Verse #7)Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 07 2010,03:18) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 06 2010,18:25) Hmm to Add Bod,
dont forget the First commandment
Exactly, and the only way to do that is to listen to God's first command.Be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth. If we are truly grateful for all God has given us it is then we show that we love God with all our heart , soul and mind.
Then do ye remember Me; I will remember you. Be grateful to Me, and reject not Faith.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #152)It is He Who created you from a single person, and made his mate of like nature, in order that he might dwell with her (in love). When they are united, she bears a light burden and carries it about (unnoticed). When she grows heavy, they both pray to Allah their Lord, (saying): “If Thou givest us a goodly child, we vow we shall (ever) be grateful.”
( سورة الأعراف , Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #189)And remember! your Lord caused to be declared (publicly): “If ye are grateful, I will add more (favours) unto you; But if ye show ingratitude, truly My punishment is terrible indeed.”
( سورة إبراهيم , Ibrahim, Chapter #14, Verse #7)
Bod… lol
hmm i dont know if you were trying to be smart,
but hopefully you know thats not what i meantim talking about the First out of the Ten Commandments.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 07 2010,03:12) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 06 2010,16:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 06 2010,07:11) No! Emphatically, NO! It is wonderful to enjoy life! Who says enjoying life need replace God? God HIMSELF agree that MAN should not be alone. God gave Man everything and told him to happy with everything. We have polluted our own inheritance trying to know what is good and what is bad. God warned us of this pollution and I will have nothing to do with it. I will eat ,drink and be happy and I will cling to the breast of my wife. Why do you want me to feel guilty or bad for doing what God told me I must do?
lol you totally didnt understand what i said.
You didnt really listen,Thats not the point.
Really think about it,
I didnt say its wrong to enjoy life did i?
Did i NOT agree with you?
or did i agree with you? (which i did)I have beening talking about the number ten all this time,
and your still stuck on number 5.
Lol…Okay, then I join you at number 10
lol ok did you re-read it?
did you understand what i meant?Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 07 2010,16:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 07 2010,03:12) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 06 2010,16:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 06 2010,07:11) No! Emphatically, NO! It is wonderful to enjoy life! Who says enjoying life need replace God? God HIMSELF agree that MAN should not be alone. God gave Man everything and told him to happy with everything. We have polluted our own inheritance trying to know what is good and what is bad. God warned us of this pollution and I will have nothing to do with it. I will eat ,drink and be happy and I will cling to the breast of my wife. Why do you want me to feel guilty or bad for doing what God told me I must do?
lol you totally didnt understand what i said.
You didnt really listen,Thats not the point.
Really think about it,
I didnt say its wrong to enjoy life did i?
Did i NOT agree with you?
or did i agree with you? (which i did)I have beening talking about the number ten all this time,
and your still stuck on number 5.
Lol…Okay, then I join you at number 10
lol ok did you re-read it?
did you understand what i meant?
Perhaps you should restate your postion again
Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 07 2010,16:02) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 07 2010,16:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 07 2010,03:12) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 06 2010,16:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ Sep. 06 2010,07:11) No! Emphatically, NO! It is wonderful to enjoy life! Who says enjoying life need replace God? God HIMSELF agree that MAN should not be alone. God gave Man everything and told him to happy with everything. We have polluted our own inheritance trying to know what is good and what is bad. God warned us of this pollution and I will have nothing to do with it. I will eat ,drink and be happy and I will cling to the breast of my wife. Why do you want me to feel guilty or bad for doing what God told me I must do?
lol you totally didnt understand what i said.
You didnt really listen,Thats not the point.
Really think about it,
I didnt say its wrong to enjoy life did i?
Did i NOT agree with you?
or did i agree with you? (which i did)I have beening talking about the number ten all this time,
and your still stuck on number 5.
Lol…Okay, then I join you at number 10
lol ok did you re-read it?
did you understand what i meant?
Perhaps you should restate your postion again
WHAT! LOL NO !There are always men that have loved God naturally. I am one of them I have always had a natural affection for God
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
