Monogenes

[Not3in1]

Again, God can love his Son before the worlds – just as he loved us before the worlds. That doesn't mean we existed.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
It says this.
Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Not quite the same.
Do you have any verses that say what you say?

[Not3in1]

If we were chosen “before the foundation of the world” does that mean we existed then, too?

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
No.

[Not3in1]

Then why does this same idea lend itself to an existing Son for you?

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Because Scripture tells us the Son was loved before the foundation of the World.
and
Luke 20:13
Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.

Nothing of that nature is said about us.

[Not3in1]

Are you sure? It seems I've read that before? That WE were also loved and chosen before the foundations of the world? Well, I'll look for that in my study in the morning and see what I come up with. And I'll get back to you on this.

Jesus was chosen before the foundations of the world.
We were chosen in him before the foundations of the world. And clearly we did not exist then. Why does Jesus have to exist? See my reasoning there?

Now where does it say that Jesus was loved before the foundations of the world? Thanks.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Jn 17
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

[Not3in1]

Ah, yes. That was one of the verses I was thinking of. Read one verse up from the one you shared:

John 17:23
“…to let the world know that you sent me and have loved THEM even as you have loved me.”

If Jesus was loved before the creation of the worlds, then so were we. Right?

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
So do you think that AS here means
IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY- BEFORE EARTH WAS FORMED?

[NickHassan]

For gw

[NickHassan]

Hi,
I believe if we could really understand what this word means, no one would continue to argue that he was created at his conception.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
One thing never said of Jesus is that he was created.
It says he is begotten [ps2].
All men are created so if you accept he did not exist till conception you say he is created.

[Not3in1]

It says he is begotten
************************
Then I guess the real word to understand would be: begotten.

“Procreation” and “Conception” – created; yes.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Does God's exultation in Ps 2 speak of a shared parentage with Mary?

[Not3in1]

Pray tell, why did God need Mary? Just for the flesh…….I'm sorry, there has to be a better answer than that one. That is a hollow answer, imho.

[NickHassan]

Hi Not3,
Christ had to fulfill prophecy being born of a virgin and being truly a son of David.
He truly had a human mother and not a surrogate mother.

[Not3in1]

He truly had a human mother and not a surrogate mother.
************************************************
Nick, I don't believe you anymore, I'm sorry. A “true” mother contributes during conception and pregnancy. When you refer to Mary and what she contributed you are merely speaking about flesh. At this rate, Mary could be considered not a true Mother but a FACTORY turning out flesh for incarnations or reincarnations.

If you want to say that Mary was the “true” Mother of Jesus, you will need to give up your pre-existent spirit son theology.

[Not3in1]

Again, 94, WJ – TOPICAL (ha) I feel so important when I say that!

[942767]

Quote (Not3in1 @ May 26 2007,11:29)

Again, 94, WJ – TOPICAL (ha)  I feel so important when I say that!

Hi Not3in1:

You are very important to me as a woman and as a sister in Christ!!!
 
Gen. 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

God Bless

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