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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 02 2006,21:21) Hi,
The Monogenes Son of God was unique and begotten of God alone. If it related to his conception in Mary he would not be just the Son of God but the son of God and Mary.
NHMary was the mother of the born the Son of God.
Jesus was the Son of Man, and the Son of God.
He was not a Son before he was born.
He was in the “morphe” of God, the Word/God that was with God.
If he was a Son before he took on the likeness of sinfull flesh, then who was his mother?
Did he have 2 mothers, Mary and
??.Hi W,
Jb 38
” 4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? “
Do heavenly sons of God need mothers??
It's generally understood that these sons of God (“bene elohim”) are angels, not God's begotten progeny.
Many believe the Sons of God were fallen angels who corrupted mankind.”
http://creationwiki.org/Nephilim“The actual expression “sons of God,” bene elohim, occurs explicitly three other times, all in the very ancient book of Job (1:6; 2:1; 38:7), and in each case the term refers indisputably to angelic beings. These are the beings whom, apparently, were created sometime during the first half of the creation week, probably on the first day (Genesis 2:1; Job 38:4-7; Luke 2:13). Twice in the beginning of the book of Job we read of the sons of God presenting themselves before Him at stated times, and Satan also comes with them as being himself a son of God, though a disobedient, fallen, and rebellious one. In Job 38:7 the morning stars are represented as singing together, and the sons of God as shouting for joy, over the creation of our earth. There are, as well, implicit references to these sons of God in a number of other passages. There is no doubt that, in these passages, the meaning also applies exclusively to the angels. A very similar form bar elohim is used in Daniel 3:25, and refers either to an angel or to a theophany. The term “sons of the mighty” (bene elim) is used in Psalm 29:1 and also Psalm 89:6, and again refers to angels.”
http://www.ldolphin.org/unruh/giants.htmlSome also understand the reference to them in Genesis 6 to be men. No one, as far as I can tell, believes these beings to be God's progeny. Besides yourself, and maybe t8…
It's the truth.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 25 2007,09:05) It's generally understood that these sons of God (“bene elohim”) are angels, not God's begotten progeny. Many believe the Sons of God were fallen angels who corrupted mankind.”
http://creationwiki.org/Nephilim“The actual expression “sons of God,” bene elohim, occurs explicitly three other times, all in the very ancient book of Job (1:6; 2:1; 38:7), and in each case the term refers indisputably to angelic beings. These are the beings whom, apparently, were created sometime during the first half of the creation week, probably on the first day (Genesis 2:1; Job 38:4-7; Luke 2:13). Twice in the beginning of the book of Job we read of the sons of God presenting themselves before Him at stated times, and Satan also comes with them as being himself a son of God, though a disobedient, fallen, and rebellious one. In Job 38:7 the morning stars are represented as singing together, and the sons of God as shouting for joy, over the creation of our earth. There are, as well, implicit references to these sons of God in a number of other passages. There is no doubt that, in these passages, the meaning also applies exclusively to the angels. A very similar form bar elohim is used in Daniel 3:25, and refers either to an angel or to a theophany. The term “sons of the mighty” (bene elim) is used in Psalm 29:1 and also Psalm 89:6, and again refers to angels.”
http://www.ldolphin.org/unruh/giants.htmlSome also understand the reference to them in Genesis 6 to be men. No one, as far as I can tell, believes these beings to be God's progeny. Besides yourself, and maybe t8…
It's the truth.
Hi Is 1.18,
Why should what is generally understood have any bearing on the truth of Scripture?
If Scripture calls them sons then human opinion does not rate a mention does it?To be honest, I thought the writer of the second article had some good scriptural data to support his position. Especially the one about Satan being among the “sons of God” in Job 2:
“Twice in the beginning of the book of Job we read of the sons of God presenting themselves before Him at stated times, and Satan also comes with them as being himself a son of God, though a disobedient, fallen, and rebellious one.”
Satan, of course is described as a “creature” in Ezekiel 28:
Ezekiel 28:14-15
14″You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire. 15″You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created until unrighteousness was found in you.If He was one of the “sons” then obviously they were all, like him, creatures.
It was a good point, I think. Do you have any scriptural evidence attesting to the fact that the “sons of God” in Job 38 are YHWH's progeny?
Hi Is 1.18,
Only one son was begotten but the others are sons too, though created and without mums. Scripture calls all of them sons and so I do too.Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 25 2007,09:05) It's generally understood that these sons of God (“bene elohim”) are angels, not God's begotten progeny. Many believe the Sons of God were fallen angels who corrupted mankind.”
http://creationwiki.org/Nephilim“The actual expression “sons of God,” bene elohim, occurs explicitly three other times, all in the very ancient book of Job (1:6; 2:1; 38:7), and in each case the term refers indisputably to angelic beings. These are the beings whom, apparently, were created sometime during the first half of the creation week, probably on the first day (Genesis 2:1; Job 38:4-7; Luke 2:13). Twice in the beginning of the book of Job we read of the sons of God presenting themselves before Him at stated times, and Satan also comes with them as being himself a son of God, though a disobedient, fallen, and rebellious one. In Job 38:7 the morning stars are represented as singing together, and the sons of God as shouting for joy, over the creation of our earth. There are, as well, implicit references to these sons of God in a number of other passages. There is no doubt that, in these passages, the meaning also applies exclusively to the angels. A very similar form bar elohim is used in Daniel 3:25, and refers either to an angel or to a theophany. The term “sons of the mighty” (bene elim) is used in Psalm 29:1 and also Psalm 89:6, and again refers to angels.”
http://www.ldolphin.org/unruh/giants.htmlSome also understand the reference to them in Genesis 6 to be men. No one, as far as I can tell, believes these beings to be God's progeny. Besides yourself, and maybe t8…
It's the truth.
Oh I was just reading about that bit in Job. Thank you I should have come here to read first lolHugs
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2007,09:53) Hi Is 1.18,
Only one son was begotten but the others are sons too, though created and without mums. Scripture calls all of them sons and so I do too.
Yes, true, but Yehsua is called a “Lamb” in scripture – but that doesn't mean he has wool.Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 26 2007,06:11) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2007,09:53) Hi Is 1.18,
Only one son was begotten but the others are sons too, though created and without mums. Scripture calls all of them sons and so I do too.
Yes, true, but Yehsua is called a “Lamb” in scripture – but that doesn't mean he has wool.
Hi Is 1.18,
Just as the sacrificial lamb has meaning
so also are the sons of God true sons.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2007,09:53) Hi Is 1.18,
Only one son was begotten but the others are sons too, though created and without mums. Scripture calls all of them sons and so I do too.
NHYea, well scriptures call Jesus God and you dont call him God.
So again the scriptures are apparently for you to form your “own doctrine” rather than letting the scriptures be your doctrine.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 26 2007,07:39) Yes, but IYO in what sense were/are they “sons”?
Hi Is 1.18,
Because God was their father and He called them his sons..Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 26 2007,07:56) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2007,09:53) Hi Is 1.18,
Only one son was begotten but the others are sons too, though created and without mums. Scripture calls all of them sons and so I do too.
NHYea, well scriptures call Jesus God and you dont call him God.
So again the scriptures are apparently for you to form your “own doctrine” rather than letting the scriptures be your doctrine.
Hi W,
For us there is one God and Jesus is our Lord [1Cor 8].
Are you not yet among the US?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2007,08:19) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 26 2007,07:39) Yes, but IYO in what sense were/are they “sons”?
Hi Is 1.18,
Because God was their father and He called them his sons..
Yes, but in what sense was God their Father?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2007,02:56) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2007,09:53) Hi Is 1.18,
Only one son was begotten but the others are sons too, though created and without mums. Scripture calls all of them sons and so I do too.
NHYea, well scriptures call Jesus God and you dont call him God.
So again the scriptures are apparently for you to form your “own doctrine” rather than letting the scriptures be your doctrine.
Faulty reasoning WorshippingJesus.Men and angels are called elohim. Men are also called theos.
So if you reasoning were correct, then you better start preaching that men and angels are YHWH. Of course we know better don't we. So why inflict us with this reasoning if it doesn't work as demonstrated above?
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 27 2007,03:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2007,08:19) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 26 2007,07:39) Yes, but IYO in what sense were/are they “sons”?
Hi Is 1.18,
Because God was their father and He called them his sons..
Yes, but in what sense was God their Father?
In what sense is your father your father?Quote (t8 @ Mar. 26 2007,10:46) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2007,02:56) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2007,09:53) Hi Is 1.18,
Only one son was begotten but the others are sons too, though created and without mums. Scripture calls all of them sons and so I do too.
NHYea, well scriptures call Jesus God and you dont call him God.
So again the scriptures are apparently for you to form your “own doctrine” rather than letting the scriptures be your doctrine.
Faulty reasoning WorshippingJesus.Men and angels are called elohim. Men are also called theos.
So if you reasoning were correct, then you better start preaching that men and angels are YHWH. Of course we know better don't we. So why inflict us with this reasoning if it doesn't work as demonstrated above?
t8No faulty reasoning.
Read the scriptures, there is Only one True God.
and…
Heb 1:
5 For unto which of the angels (or so called Gods), said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
The Word/God, the Lord from heaven, became the Monogenes (Unique) Son of God when he took on the likeness of sinfull flesh.The Father calls him God, not of the same class as those so called gods.
For they were created by the true God, YHWH as the 10th verse of Heb shows and the 102nd Psalm.
Creator and Created.
So t8.
When Jesus said…
Jn 10:34
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?Do you think Jesus is putting himself in the same class of being as those so called gods?
Is he “A” god, but not the true God? This is what your writtings bear out is it not?
If this is true, then this is Henotheism, or Polytheism.
So then you can not say with Paul…
! Cor 8: NASB
4 Therefore concerning the eating of things sacrificed to idols, we know that there is no such thing as an idol in the world, and that there is no God but one.
5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords,
6 yet for us there is but one God,
the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.I think Paul new this One God for he mentions the Father and the Lord Jesus in the same breath, declaring that *for us there is One God.
Paul knew Jesus is the creator and that he was/is God in the flesh.
1 Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.He also knew the Lord from heaven purchased the church with his own blood.
Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the *church of God,* which *he* hath purchased with his own blood.
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