Monogenes

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 15 2010,18:12)

Hi WJ, If God has only one son then Adam is not a son though Luke says he is. The Jews are not sons though Deut 14 says they are God's children. The angels are not sons yet scripture can call them sons. You cannot be a son though scripture offers you that hope. Look deeper.

A literal Son and an adopted son is not the same thing.

Don't have to look closer!

WJ

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 16 2010,09:21)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 16 2010,05:34) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 15 2010,13:29) Hi, Does anyone else apart from trinitarians agree that it is oK to say Jesus is the ONLY SON of God? Jb 38, Gen 6,Ps 89, … Hi Nick, I agree that it is ok to say Jesus is the ONLY SON of God. Thanks for asking, Kathi Hi LU, So by which scriptural authority do you claim this? Monogenes surely neither means ONLY SON nor ONLY SON TO BE BEGOTTEN. Folks confuse it with GENNAO

Nick,

What are your Greek credentials? Even the anti-trinitarian NWT reads “only begotten Son.” Please list your credentials.

Do you have an online Mickey Mouse degree?

thinker

[terraricca]

TT
a degree is not equal to intelligence,it just mean that at one moment in time you could fill in and respond to exams .

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2010,15:22)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2010,13:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2010,13:38) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 15 2010,13:25) Hi, Does any bible translate MONOGENES, relating to Jesus, as ONLY? Why would you WJ and TT? Most translations render it “Only Begotten Son” of God. STRONG'S G3439 – MONOGENĒS 1) SINGLE OF ITS KIND, ONLY A) USED OF ONLY SONS OR DAUGHTERS (VIEWED IN RELATION TO THEIR PARENTS) B) USED OF CHRIST, DENOTES THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD WJ Hi Keith, Since Monogenes is an adjective, only begotten is what most translations would render it.  If translated with the word “son” then the noun meaning  “son” is also in the verse. Kathi Hi Kathi Long time no hear from! Hope you and yours are well and that you had wonderful Holidays! Most translations do render it that way but not all. So there is ambiguity over the word “Begotten”, but there is no ambiguity over the word “Mono” Only” which is also an adjective and is the first part of “Monogenes” In Luke 7:12, 8:42, and 9:38 Monogenes is translated “Only Son” and “Only Daughter” and “Only Child”! So to say Jesus is the “Only Son of God” is a true statement! WJ

Hi Keith,
Yes, I've taken a break from HN and noticed that HN helps me dig into the Word, so I'm back but I intend on continuing to cut down on my computer time. Thanks for noticing My family is all well and our holidays were very nice. Thanks for asking

I appreciated the verses that you mentioned. I noticed that all those verses supplied the separate word for “son” or “daughter” in the context within the Greek. There is a verse that does not supply the word for son or daughter in the Greek but has the word monogenes in it…here:

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
NASU

God bless,
Kathi

[KangarooJack]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 16 2010,12:27)

TT a degree is not equal to intelligence,it just mean that at one moment in time you could fill in and respond to  exams .

So you deny that Jesus is God's “only begotten Son?”

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Kathi said:

Quote

Yes, I've taken a break from HN and noticed that HN helps me dig into the Word

Hi Kathi,

Is good that you are digging into the word.

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
Dig deep yourself.
You will not find any trinity.

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 16 2010,10:29)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 15 2010,18:12) Hi WJ, If God has only one son then Adam is not a son though Luke says he is. The Jews are not sons though Deut 14 says they are God's children. The angels are not sons yet scripture can call them sons. You cannot be a son though scripture offers you that hope. Look deeper. A literal Son and an adopted son is not the same thing. Don't have to look closer! WJ

Hi WJ,
So you cannot follow Jesus?
We can.

[terraricca]

TT
so you finally accept the trinity as pagan and non biblical,good for you to see the truth.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2010,21:39)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2010,15:22) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2010,13:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2010,13:38) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 15 2010,13:25) Hi, Does any bible translate MONOGENES, relating to Jesus, as ONLY? Why would you WJ and TT? Most translations render it “Only Begotten Son” of God. STRONG'S G3439 – MONOGENĒS 1) SINGLE OF ITS KIND, ONLY A) USED OF ONLY SONS OR DAUGHTERS (VIEWED IN RELATION TO THEIR PARENTS) B) USED OF CHRIST, DENOTES THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD WJ Hi Keith, Since Monogenes is an adjective, only begotten is what most translations would render it.  If translated with the word “son” then the noun meaning  “son” is also in the verse. Kathi Hi Kathi Long time no hear from! Hope you and yours are well and that you had wonderful Holidays! Most translations do render it that way but not all. So there is ambiguity over the word “Begotten”, but there is no ambiguity over the word “Mono” Only” which is also an adjective and is the first part of “Monogenes” In Luke 7:12, 8:42, and 9:38 Monogenes is translated “Only Son” and “Only Daughter” and “Only Child”! So to say Jesus is the “Only Son of God” is a true statement! WJ Hi Keith, Yes, I've taken a break from HN and noticed that HN helps me dig into the Word, so I'm back but I intend on continuing to cut down on my computer time.  Thanks for noticing  My family is all well and our holidays were very nice.  Thanks for asking I appreciated the verses that you mentioned.  I noticed that all those verses supplied the separate word for “son” or “daughter” in the context within the Greek.  There is a verse that does not supply the word for son or daughter in the Greek but has the word monogenes in it…here: John 1:14 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. NASU God bless, Kathi

Hi Kathi

True, and to be truer to the text it should read…

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of “the One and Only“, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14 NIV

Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory – the glory of “the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father. John 1:14 NET

How would 1 translation outway the use of the word in three examples? (Luke 7:12, 8:42, and 9:38)

tn Or “of the unique one.” Although this word is often translated “only begotten,” such a translation is misleading, since in English it appears to express a metaphysical relationship. The word in Greek was used of an only child (a son [Luke 7:12, 9:38] or a daughter [Luke 8:42]). It was also used of something unique (only one of its kind) such as the mythological Phoenix (1 Clem. 25:2). From here it passes easily to a description of Isaac (Heb 11:17 and Josephus, Ant., 1.13.1 [1.222]) who was not Abraham’s only son, but was one-of-a-kind because he was the child of the promise. Thus the word means “one-of-a-kind” and is reserved for Jesus in the Johannine literature of the NT. While all Christians are children of God, Jesus is God’s Son in a unique, one-of-a-kind sense. The word is used in this way in all its uses in the Gospel of John (1:14, 1:18, 3:16, and 3:18). Source the NET Bible!

But you already know this!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 15 2010,22:10)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 16 2010,10:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 15 2010,18:12) Hi WJ, If God has only one son then Adam is not a son though Luke says he is. The Jews are not sons though Deut 14 says they are God's children. The angels are not sons yet scripture can call them sons. You cannot be a son though scripture offers you that hope. Look deeper. A literal Son and an adopted son is not the same thing. Don't have to look closer! WJ Hi WJ, So you cannot follow Jesus? We can.

NH

I follow a glorified and exalted Jesus, but it seems your Jesus is still in the flesh!

WJ

[terraricca]

WJ
Jesus is the first son of God ,the first of all and in everything,scriptures say so.

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
You say you follow Jesus but you preach a strange trinity god and he didn't?

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 16 2010,01:55)

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2010,21:39) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2010,15:22) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2010,13:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2010,13:38) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 15 2010,13:25) Hi, Does any bible translate MONOGENES, relating to Jesus, as ONLY? Why would you WJ and TT? Most translations render it “Only Begotten Son” of God. STRONG'S G3439 – MONOGENĒS 1) SINGLE OF ITS KIND, ONLY A) USED OF ONLY SONS OR DAUGHTERS (VIEWED IN RELATION TO THEIR PARENTS) B) USED OF CHRIST, DENOTES THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD WJ Hi Keith, Since Monogenes is an adjective, only begotten is what most translations would render it.  If translated with the word “son” then the noun meaning  “son” is also in the verse. Kathi Hi Kathi Long time no hear from! Hope you and yours are well and that you had wonderful Holidays! Most translations do render it that way but not all. So there is ambiguity over the word “Begotten”, but there is no ambiguity over the word “Mono” Only” which is also an adjective and is the first part of “Monogenes” In Luke 7:12, 8:42, and 9:38 Monogenes is translated “Only Son” and “Only Daughter” and “Only Child”! So to say Jesus is the “Only Son of God” is a true statement! WJ Hi Keith, Yes, I've taken a break from HN and noticed that HN helps me dig into the Word, so I'm back but I intend on continuing to cut down on my computer time.  Thanks for noticing  My family is all well and our holidays were very nice.  Thanks for asking I appreciated the verses that you mentioned.  I noticed that all those verses supplied the separate word for “son” or “daughter” in the context within the Greek.  There is a verse that does not supply the word for son or daughter in the Greek but has the word monogenes in it…here: John 1:14 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. NASU God bless, Kathi Hi Kathi True, and to be truer to the text it should read… The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of “the One and Only“, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14 NIV Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory – the glory of “the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father. John 1:14 NET How would 1 translation outway the use of the word in three examples? (Luke 7:12, 8:42, and 9:38) tn Or “of the unique one.” Although this word is often translated “only begotten,” such a translation is misleading, since in English it appears to express a metaphysical relationship. The word in Greek was used of an only child (a son [Luke 7:12, 9:38] or a daughter [Luke 8:42]). It was also used of something unique (only one of its kind) such as the mythological Phoenix (1 Clem. 25:2). From here it passes easily to a description of Isaac (Heb 11:17 and Josephus, Ant., 1.13.1 [1.222]) who was not Abraham’s only son, but was one-of-a-kind because he was the child of the promise. Thus the word means “one-of-a-kind” and is reserved for Jesus in the Johannine literature of the NT. While all Christians are children of God, Jesus is God’s Son in a unique, one-of-a-kind sense. The word is used in this way in all its uses in the Gospel of John (1:14, 1:18, 3:16, and 3:18). Source the NET Bible! But you already know this! WJ

Hi Keith,
I do know that the NET Bible's translators used the term “one and only” as a translation for monogenes. I do believe that they treat it as though it is just the word “monos” and have lost the fullness of the term since “one and only” does not represent “genes” at all. They claim that “begotten” is often the translation but it is misleading since in English it would imply a metaphysical relationship. Well, I am not sure what they mean by “metaphysical relationship” but I certainly do think it is possible for the Most High God to have a true offspring which comes from Himself so I have no problem with the term monogenes theos used in John 1:18 to be translated as “only begotten God” as the NASB translates it. But you already know that.

God bless,
Kathi

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 16 2010,19:42)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 16 2010,01:55) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2010,21:39) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2010,15:22) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 15 2010,13:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2010,13:38) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 15 2010,13:25) Hi, Does any bible translate MONOGENES, relating to Jesus, as ONLY? Why would you WJ and TT? Most translations render it “Only Begotten Son” of God. STRONG'S G3439 – MONOGENĒS 1) SINGLE OF ITS KIND, ONLY A) USED OF ONLY SONS OR DAUGHTERS (VIEWED IN RELATION TO THEIR PARENTS) B) USED OF CHRIST, DENOTES THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD WJ Hi Keith, Since Monogenes is an adjective, only begotten is what most translations would render it.  If translated with the word “son” then the noun meaning  “son” is also in the verse. Kathi Hi Kathi Long time no hear from! Hope you and yours are well and that you had wonderful Holidays! Most translations do render it that way but not all. So there is ambiguity over the word “Begotten”, but there is no ambiguity over the word “Mono” Only” which is also an adjective and is the first part of “Monogenes” In Luke 7:12, 8:42, and 9:38 Monogenes is translated “Only Son” and “Only Daughter” and “Only Child”! So to say Jesus is the “Only Son of God” is a true statement! WJ Hi Keith, Yes, I've taken a break from HN and noticed that HN helps me dig into the Word, so I'm back but I intend on continuing to cut down on my computer time.  Thanks for noticing  My family is all well and our holidays were very nice.  Thanks for asking I appreciated the verses that you mentioned.  I noticed that all those verses supplied the separate word for “son” or “daughter” in the context within the Greek.  There is a verse that does not supply the word for son or daughter in the Greek but has the word monogenes in it…here: John 1:14 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. NASU God bless, Kathi Hi Kathi True, and to be truer to the text it should read… The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of “the One and Only“, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14 NIV Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory – the glory of “the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father. John 1:14 NET How would 1 translation outway the use of the word in three examples? (Luke 7:12, 8:42, and 9:38) tn Or “of the unique one.” Although this word is often translated “only begotten,” such a translation is misleading, since in English it appears to express a metaphysical relationship. The word in Greek was used of an only child (a son [Luke 7:12, 9:38] or a daughter [Luke 8:42]). It was also used of something unique (only one of its kind) such as the mythological Phoenix (1 Clem. 25:2). From here it passes easily to a description of Isaac (Heb 11:17 and Josephus, Ant., 1.13.1 [1.222]) who was not Abraham’s only son, but was one-of-a-kind because he was the child of the promise. Thus the word means “one-of-a-kind” and is reserved for Jesus in the Johannine literature of the NT. While all Christians are children of God, Jesus is God’s Son in a unique, one-of-a-kind sense. The word is used in this way in all its uses in the Gospel of John (1:14, 1:18, 3:16, and 3:18). Source the NET Bible! But you already know this! WJ Hi Keith, I do know that the NET Bible's translators used the term “one and only” as a translation for monogenes.  I do believe that they treat it as though it is just the word “monos” and have lost the fullness of the term since “one and only” does not represent “genes” at all.  They claim that “begotten” is often the translation but it is misleading since in English it would imply a metaphysical relationship.  Well, I am not sure what they mean by “metaphysical relationship” but I certainly do think it is possible for the Most High God to have a true offspring which comes from Himself so I have no problem with the term monogenes theos used in John 1:18 to be translated as “only begotten God” as the NASB translates it.  But you already know that. God bless, Kathi

Hi Kathi

The problem is other passages use the word “Monogenes” with the word (Son, daughter, child) as “Only” as I have shown!

And other translations render the word Monogenes as Only Son where there is no word Son in the text.

But the only time ever it is translated as Only Begotten God is the NASB and the term cannot be found in the NASB but only that once!

NASB is inconsistent because in Heb 11:17 the NASB translates Monogenes as “Only Begotten” without the word Son in referring to Isaac.

Abrahams Son was not called the “Begotten God” there by the NASB!

It’s even more interesting that just a few verses before John 1:18 in verse 14 again without the word Son they render it “the only begotten from the Father”, why didn't they render it like they did in verse 18, “Only begotten God”?

Even so it is a fact that John’s intention in his writing is to show the word “Monogenes” obviously applies to Jesus after the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.

If the writer John would have intended what you say then he would have used the word “Strong's G1080 – gennaō”, which means…

1) of men who fathered children

a) to be born

b) to be begotten

1) of women giving birth to children

Used in Heb 1:5 and 5:5 where when Jesus already existing, post resurrection as a Son, the Father declares him to be his Begotten!

The compound root “Mono” Strong’s definition being “Only, Alone” and the word “ginom
ai” Strong’s definition being “1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being” does not in the definition have the word “Begotten” and even if it did, the context would be that he was “begotten” when the word was made flesh when he “came into being or existence as a man!

John did not write the Word was with God and the Word was the “Monogenes” God!

As the NET shows, in light of John 1:1 the word Begotten is misleading!

You should already know that!

WJ

[banana]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 16 2010,23:15)

WJ Jesus is the first son of God ,the first of all and in everything,scriptures say so.

You are so right…. Whether Monogenes or just the Son of God. What difference does it make.  He is His Son and that is all that matters.  He also had a beginning, not like W.J. and the thinker want to deny.  Scriptures have been given many times.  He is our Savior and our Mediator.  He came to earth to do the will of our Heavenly Father.  He has said that My Father is greater then I.  Several Scriptures tell us THAT THERE IS ONE LORD, WHO IS ABOVE ALL AND IN US ALL.  He now sits at the right hand of the Father and is second in line, sort to speak.  The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of our Heavenly Father and not the third person of the trinity.  The Holy Spirit is not Jesus Father, which if He would be a Person that is what He would be.  One day we will only know the truth, till then all that teach the trinity are worship in vain Math. 15:9
Good luck and be good, time is short……
Peace and Love Irene

[KangarooJack]

Kathi said:

Quote

…but I certainly do think it is possible for the Most High God to have a true offspring which comes from Himself so I have no problem with the term monogenes theos used in John 1:18 to be translated as “only begotten God” as the NASB translates it.  But you already know that.

The sun begets light which radiates from within itself. It does not beget a second, lesser sun.

Jesus is called the “radiance” of God's glory. This means that HE cannot be begotten in the sense Kathi thinks. Jesus was not begotten as a second, lesser god.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 16 2010,14:45)

TT so you finally accept the trinity as pagan and non biblical,good for you to see the truth.

Huh what?  

thinker

[Lightenup]

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 17 2010,06:32)

Kathi said: Quote …but I certainly do think it is possible for the Most High God to have a true offspring which comes from Himself so I have no problem with the term monogenes theos used in John 1:18 to be translated as “only begotten God” as the NASB translates it.  But you already know that. The sun begets light which radiates from within itself. It does not beget a second, lesser sun. Jesus is called the “radiance” of God's glory. This means that HE cannot be begotten in the sense Kathi thinks. Jesus was not begotten as a second, lesser god. thinker

The sun is not a person…you are trying to compare apples to oranges.

[banana]

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 17 2010,22:34)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 16 2010,14:45) TT so you finally accept the trinity as pagan and non biblical,good for you to see the truth. Huh what?   thinker

Some people will go to the anything, to say nonsense
   

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