Mikeboll64 vs francis

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2011,09:12)

It must be pride or maybe it is just the darkness and blindness of the heart that keeps men from honouring Jesus like the Father rather than just giving him the honour of an anointed man or servant Messiah of which he is no longer servant.

Hi WJ,

Perhaps these “Scriptures” escape you; WJ?

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away:
for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide
with you for ever; John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat (Jesus=74)
fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it(he) die, it bringeth forth much “fruit”(74).

Heb.13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would
come and take him by force, to make him a king, he
departed again into a mountain himself alone.

Matthew 20:25-28 But Jesus called them unto him, and said,
Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them,
and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so
among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto,
but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Psalm 29:10 The LORD sitteth upon the flood; yea, The LORD (YHVH) sitteth King forever.
Psalm 10:16 The LORD is King for ever and ever: the heathen are perished out of his land.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org …(Eccl.9:12-16)

February 18, 2011 at 5:05 pm#236244

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 17 2011,19:04)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2011,09:23)

Is there gender in heaven, or will we be like the Angels?

Hmmmm……………I wonder how the non-gendered angels found human WOMEN attractive and mated with them to produce the Nephilim?

Hi Mike

Because they didn't. Your claim is conjecture and ambiguous because it is believed that the sons of God were men from the line of Seth who had corrupted themselves through fornication with the daughters of wicked men.

Jesus claim that there is no giving of marriage for us in that day is proof that there will be no gender for in Christ there is neither male nor female.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 17 2011,19:04)

Keith, if I may expand on t8's point:

Why is it that our hope is to become BROTHERS of Jesus, but SONS of God?

My hope is not to be a brother of Jesus for I am now a brother and a son of God by adoption. What are you waiting for?

The Glorious hope of the believer is to see him as he is and to be changed into his image.

February 18, 2011 at 5:09 pm#236245

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2011,10:45)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2011,09:12)

Hi WJ,

Perhaps these “Scriptures” escape you; WJ?

Go away. You are annoying because you post scriptures and comments that are not even related to the subject.

None of the scriptures you posted says Jesus is still a servant but everything you posted is pre ressurection. Jesus has not yet submitted himself nor the Kingdom to the Father according to 1 Cor 15

February 18, 2011 at 5:18 pm#236246

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2011,09:23)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 17 2011,16:46)

Question: If we will be like Jesus and he calls us brothers, then does that support Jesus being the son of God or God?
Answer: Son of God.

Because if we are to be like God and God calls us brother, then we are too God.
But if he is the son, then we are sons, and we will be his brother.

Just another clear indicator that Jesus is the son of God and not one member of a Trinity God.

Hopefully this will be well received.

Being a brother to Jesus is linked to his humanity because he came in the flesh.

So the question is back to you.

“Before Jesus came in the flesh was he a brother to humanity?“

In the Kingdom of God there are no brothers or sisters are there t8?

Is there gender in heaven, or will we be like the Angels?

So in other words Jesus becoming a brother to humanity has no bearing on him being the Son of God since the Son of God does not have to be human right?

Burn that straw man down. t8 I am amazed at this last lame attempt you made, it seems below you.

Hi WJ,

The Bible does NOT say that the “Angels” do NOT have gender?
Only they neither Marry nor are given in Marriage! (Matt. 22:30)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 18, 2011 at 5:53 pm#236249

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2011,03:09)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2011,10:45)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2011,09:12)

Hi WJ,

Perhaps these “Scriptures” escape you; WJ?

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away:
for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide
with you for ever; John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat (Jesus=74)
fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it(he) die, it bringeth forth much “fruit”(74).

Psalm 29:10 The LORD sitteth upon the flood; yea, The LORD (YHVH) sitteth King forever.
Psalm 10:16 The LORD is King for ever and ever: the heathen are perished out of his land.

Go away. You are annoying because you post scriptures and comments that are not even related to the subject.

None of the scriptures you posted says Jesus is still a servant but everything you posted is pre ressurection. Jesus has not yet submitted himself nor the Kingdom to the Father according to 1 Cor 15

Hi WJ,

Where in 1Cor.15 does it say 'Jesus is no longer a servant'?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 18, 2011 at 5:56 pm#236250

Participant

Hi WJ,

Are you 'annoyed', because you are unable
to produce “Scriptural backing” for your assertions?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 18, 2011 at 6:24 pm#236252

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2011,11:18)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2011,09:23)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 17 2011,16:46)

Question: If we will be like Jesus and he calls us brothers, then does that support Jesus being the son of God or God?
Answer: Son of God.

Because if we are to be like God and God calls us brother, then we are too God.
But if he is the son, then we are sons, and we will be his brother.

Just another clear indicator that Jesus is the son of God and not one member of a Trinity God.

Hopefully this will be well received.

Being a brother to Jesus is linked to his humanity because he came in the flesh.

So the question is back to you.

“Before Jesus came in the flesh was he a brother to humanity?“

In the Kingdom of God there are no brothers or sisters are there t8?

Is there gender in heaven, or will we be like the Angels?

So in other words Jesus becoming a brother to humanity has no bearing on him being the Son of God since the Son of God does not have to be human right?

Burn that straw man down. t8 I am amazed at this last lame attempt you made, it seems below you.

Hi WJ,

The Bible does NOT say that the “Angels” do NOT have gender?

The Bible says in Christ there is neither male nor female!

What, so do you think there will be sex outside of marriage in heaven?

February 18, 2011 at 6:27 pm#236253

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2011,11:56)

Hi WJ,

Are you 'annoyed', because you are unable
to produce “Scriptural backing” for your assertions?

I am annoyed because you interupt debate with scriptures that have no bearing on the subject with an annoying comment about me not remembering scriptures.

Read 1 Cor 15 yourself for it clearly says that Christ has not yet subjected himself nor the Kingdom back to the Father!

Plus the scriptures clearly teach that Jesus has been given all things including all authority and power and even all judgement. Jesus rules as King of Kings and Lord of Lords in the Throne of God so he is n longer the servant messiah for all things have been committed to him.

February 18, 2011 at 6:42 pm#236254

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2011,04:24)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2011,11:18)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2011,09:23)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 17 2011,16:46)

Question: If we will be like Jesus and he calls us brothers, then does that support Jesus being the son of God or God?
Answer: Son of God.

Because if we are to be like God and God calls us brother, then we are too God.
But if he is the son, then we are sons, and we will be his brother.

Just another clear indicator that Jesus is the son of God and not one member of a Trinity God.

Hopefully this will be well received.

Being a brother to Jesus is linked to his humanity because he came in the flesh.

So the question is back to you.

“Before Jesus came in the flesh was he a brother to humanity?“

In the Kingdom of God there are no brothers or sisters are there t8?

Is there gender in heaven, or will we be like the Angels?

So in other words Jesus becoming a brother to humanity has no bearing on him being the Son of God since the Son of God does not have to be human right?

Burn that straw man down. t8 I am amazed at this last lame attempt you made, it seems below you.

Hi WJ,

The Bible does NOT say that the “Angels” do NOT have gender?
Only they neither Marry nor are given in Marriage! (Matt. 22:30)

The Bible says in Christ there is neither male nor female!

What, so do you think there will be sex outside of marriage in heaven?

Hi WJ,

I have no idea what our resurrection will be like!
I can only go by what “The Bible” says:
And the bible is unclear on this.

Galatians 3:27 refers to NOW!, not after the resurrection!
Did you 'think' this verse meant after the resurrection?

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is
neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 18, 2011 at 7:00 pm#236255

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2011,12:42)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2011,04:24)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2011,11:18)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2011,09:23)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 17 2011,16:46)

Question: If we will be like Jesus and he calls us brothers, then does that support Jesus being the son of God or God?
Answer: Son of God.

Because if we are to be like God and God calls us brother, then we are too God.
But if he is the son, then we are sons, and we will be his brother.

Just another clear indicator that Jesus is the son of God and not one member of a Trinity God.

Hopefully this will be well received.

Being a brother to Jesus is linked to his humanity because he came in the flesh.

So the question is back to you.

“Before Jesus came in the flesh was he a brother to humanity?“

In the Kingdom of God there are no brothers or sisters are there t8?

Is there gender in heaven, or will we be like the Angels?

So in other words Jesus becoming a brother to humanity has no bearing on him being the Son of God since the Son of God does not have to be human right?

Burn that straw man down. t8 I am amazed at this last lame attempt you made, it seems below you.

Hi WJ,

The Bible does NOT say that the “Angels” do NOT have gender?
Only they neither Marry nor are given in Marriage! (Matt. 22:30)

The Bible says in Christ there is neither male nor female!

What, so do you think there will be sex outside of marriage in heaven?

Hi WJ,

I have no idea what our resurrection will be like!
I can only go by what “The Bible” says:
And the bible is unclear on this.

Galatians 3:27 refers to NOW!, not after the resurrection!
Did you 'think' this verse meant after the resurrection?

Then why did you post scritpures like you did know what we will be like after the resurrection? Like I said, it was off topic and annoying and distracting.

We will be in Christ forever which means we will neither be male nor female forever.

February 18, 2011 at 7:14 pm#236256

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2011,05:00)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2011,12:42)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2011,04:24)

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2011,11:18)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2011,09:23)

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 17 2011,16:46)

Question: If we will be like Jesus and he calls us brothers, then does that support Jesus being the son of God or God?
Answer: Son of God.

Because if we are to be like God and God calls us brother, then we are too God.
But if he is the son, then we are sons, and we will be his brother.

Just another clear indicator that Jesus is the son of God and not one member of a Trinity God.

Hopefully this will be well received.

Being a brother to Jesus is linked to his humanity because he came in the flesh.

So the question is back to you.

“Before Jesus came in the flesh was he a brother to humanity?“

In the Kingdom of God there are no brothers or sisters are there t8?

Is there gender in heaven, or will we be like the Angels?

So in other words Jesus becoming a brother to humanity has no bearing on him being the Son of God since the Son of God does not have to be human right?

Burn that straw man down. t8 I am amazed at this last lame attempt you made, it seems below you.

Hi WJ,

The Bible does NOT say that the “Angels” do NOT have gender?
Only they neither Marry nor are given in Marriage! (Matt. 22:30)

The Bible says in Christ there is neither male nor female!

What, so do you think there will be sex outside of marriage in heaven?

Hi WJ,

I have no idea what our resurrection will be like!
I can only go by what “The Bible” says:
And the bible is unclear on this.

Galatians 3:27 refers to NOW!, not after the resurrection!
Did you 'think' this verse meant after the resurrection?

Then why did you post scritpures like you did know what we will be like after the resurrection? Like I said, it was off topic and annoying and distracting.

We will be in Christ forever which means we will neither be male nor female forever.

Hi WJ,

You point your finger at what you yourself are guilty of doing?
This “Topic” is about what MikeBoll64 and Francis are
discussing with regard to a “so called” Trinity;
Everything outside of that is 'off topic'.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 18, 2011 at 7:36 pm#236258

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 18 2011,13:14)

This “Topic” is about what MikeBoll64 and Francis are
discussing with regard to a “so called” Trinity;
Everything outside of that is 'off topic'.

Just like the statement you just made is off topic.

We are discussing the Trinity which is what this thread is about as well as the debate.

February 19, 2011 at 4:21 pm#236306

Blocked

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2011,03:05)

Your claim is conjecture and ambiguous because it is believed that the sons of God were men from the line of Seth who had corrupted themselves through fornication with the daughters of wicked men.

Believed by WHOM?

Genesis 6:4
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them.

Why do you think Moses distinguished between “sons of Elohim” and “daughters of adam”?

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2011,03:05)

Jesus claim that there is no giving of marriage for us in that day is proof that there will be no gender for in Christ there is neither male nor female.

No……………Jesus claim says exactly what it says – that angels don't marry. It says nothing about angels not having genders. Don't read into it what's not really there.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2011,03:05)

My hope is not to be a brother of Jesus for I am now a brother and a son of God by adoption.

You are a BROTHER of God right now?

Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ……..

Galatians 4:6
Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”

SONS of God, and joint heirs of God along with His firstborn Son, Jesus.

Romans 8:29
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

BROTHERS AND SISTERS of Christ.

Keith, the above are actual SCRIPTURES. They say that we can be SONS of God and BROTHERS of Christ. Where did you find the scripture that teaches you that you are a BROTHER OF GOD?

mike

February 19, 2011 at 4:36 pm#236309

Blocked

Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 18 2011,19:20)

Mike wrote:

Quote

Are you serious? Please show me ONE scripture that implies the throne of a HUMAN king is the throne of God.

The throne of David = the throne of Jehovah

Quote

1 Kings 2:10-12

Quote

1 Chroncles 29:23-28

The Kings nattative says that after David died his son Solomon sat on the throne of HIS FATHER DAVID.

The account in Chronicles says that after David died his son Solomon sat on JEHOVAH'S throne IN THE PLACE OF his father David.

David's throne = Jehovah's throne.

How will Mike weasel out of this one

Jack

Wow Jack,

Good work…………I did NOT know a scripture like this existed.
Now that we both know it does, let's honestly and intelligently discuss what it means.

Do you think this scripture means that David and Solomon and all the kings who followed were literally sitting on the throne of God Himself? Because according to Keith, one must BE God Himself to sit on the throne of God. And that would mean that David and Solomon and all the others were actually God Himself. Is this what you believe……….that they were all God?

Or do you think that maybe it means that Solomon sat on the throne designated BY YHVH as the throne of the HUMAN kings of His nation?

Psalm 2:6
6 “I have installed my king
on Zion, my holy mountain.”

We could also understand this scripture to be saying God Himself has a King over Himself. You know, like God is a subject in this person's Kingdom. But we know that's not the case, right?

Similarly, we know that Solomon did not literally sit on God's throne in heaven.

But if you want to understand this to mean that Solomon literally sat on the throne of God, then your scripture disproves Keith's claim that one must BE God in order to sit on His throne, right?

So Jack, in keeping with the discussion Keith and I were having, do you believe that the throne of David really IS the throne that God Himself rules from?

mike

February 19, 2011 at 4:49 pm#236310

Blocked

Hi Keith,

Matthew 20:20-21, 23
20 Then the mother of Zebedee’s sons came to Jesus with her sons and, kneeling down, asked a favor of him.
21 “What is it you want?” he asked.

She said, “Grant that one of these two sons of mine may sit at your right and the other at your left in your kingdom.”

23 Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.”

Psalm 110:1
Of David. A psalm. YHVH says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”

Acts 5:31
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins.

1. Keith, based on what these scriptures teach us, is the right hand position of a ruler GRANTED by the one who is in power? YES or NO?

2. Based on the obvious and honest answer of “YES” to the first question, does being EXALTED or GRANTED the position of “right hand” imply equality with the one who EXALTED or GRANTED another TO that position? YES or NO?

mike

February 19, 2011 at 4:56 pm#236311

Blocked

Hi Keith,

1. Knowing that Jesus is NOT everything the BEING OF GOD is, can Jesus possibly BE the BEING OF GOD that he is the Son of?

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 18 2011 @ 03:19)

Yes Jesus is the Son of the Father

Keith, I just counted 41 scriptures that call Jesus the “Son of God”. NOT the “Son of the Father”, but the “Son of GOD”. And that's not even counting the ones that says he is the “Son of THE Living God”, or the ones that refer to him as “God's Son” or “His Son”.

In light of these 41+ scriptures, and the 6900+ times that God is referred to by a SINGULAR pronoun such as “He” and “Him”, could you answer my question with a simple YES or NO?

2. According to MANY scriptures, is Jesus the Son of the SINGULAR BEING called “God”? Yes or No?

mike

February 19, 2011 at 4:59 pm#236312

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 19 2011,10:21)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2011,03:05)

Your claim is conjecture and ambiguous because it is believed that the sons of God were men from the line of Seth who had corrupted themselves through fornication with the daughters of wicked men.

Believed by WHOM?

Genesis 6:4
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them.

Why do you think Moses distinguished between “sons of Elohim” and “daughters of adam”?

Mike

It is ambiguous and inference at best to say they were “Angels”.

For one that would be contrary to the seed bearing principle of every seed bearing after its own kind or for instance a spirit being having sex with a human\flesh being.

This is how the opinions go…

Genesis 6 – two interpretations There are effectively two views[16] regarding the identity of the Nephilim, which follow on from alternative views about the identity of the sons of God:

Offspring of Seth — The Qumran (Dead sea) scroll fragment 4Q417 (4QInstruction) contains the earliest known reference to the phrase “children of Seth”, stating that God has condemned them for their rebellion. (Nonetheless, a few commentators dispute the interpretation of this reference.)[citation needed] Other early references to the offspring of Seth rebelling from God and mingling with the daughters of Cain, are found in rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, Augustine of Hippo, Julius Africanus, and the Letters attributed to St. Clement. It is also the view expressed in the modern canonical Amharic Ethiopian Orthodox Bible.
Offspring of angels — A number of early sources refer to the “sons of heaven” as “Angels”. The earliest such references[17] seem to be in the Dead Sea scrolls, the Greek, and Aramaic Enochic literature, and in certain Ge'ez manuscripts of 1 Enoch (mss A-Q) and Jubilees[18] used by western scholars in modern editions of the Old Testament Pseudepigrapha[19]. However, “Angels” in this context has sometimes been considered to be a sarcastic epithet for the offspring of Seth who rebelled (see above). The earliest statement in a secondary commentary explicitly interpreting this to mean that angelic beings mated with humans, can be traced to the rabbinical Targum Pseudo-Jonathan, and it has since become especially commonplace in modern-day Christian commentaries.
Others do not take either view, and believe that they are not historical figures but are ancient imagery with questionable meaning. Wikipedia

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 19 2011,10:21)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2011,03:05)

Jesus claim that there is no giving of marriage for us in that day is proof that there will be no gender for in Christ there is neither male nor female.

No……………Jesus claim says exactly what it says – that angels don't marry. It says nothing about angels not having genders. Don't read into it what's not really there.

No Jesus claim is we will be as the Angels of God who neither marry nor are given in marriage. Paul says “in Christ there is neither male nor female” which implies if we are going to be like the Angels that do not marry it is because they have no gender.

Where is the scripture that calls an angel of God a she, or her? Like God they have no gender and are referred to as a he.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 19 2011,10:21)

[

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 19 2011,03:05)

My hope is not to be a brother of Jesus for I am now a brother and a son of God by adoption.

You are a BROTHER of God right now?

Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ……..

Galatians 4:6
Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”

SONS of God, and joint heirs of God along with His firstborn Son, Jesus.

Romans 8:29
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

BROTHERS AND SISTERS of Christ.

Keith, the above are actual SCRIPTURES. They say that we can be SONS of God and BROTHERS of Christ. Where did you find the scripture that teaches you that you are a BROTHER OF GOD?

mike

You misunderstood me. By Jesus humanity I am his brother and a Son of God.

February 19, 2011 at 5:04 pm#236313

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 19 2011,10:36)

But if you want to understand this to mean that Solomon literally sat on the throne of God, then your scripture disproves Keith's claim that one must BE God in order to sit on His throne, right?

Mike

No it doesn't because the prophetic scriptures of the “Throne of David” on earth was a type of the “Throne of God” in heaven and is proof that Jesus will sit in the “Throne of God” forever and rule forever with the Father.

Blow that straw man down.

February 19, 2011 at 6:26 pm#236318