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Didn't think I would see this did you Mike?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 03 2011,16:44) And I even checked the IP address when you started posting because of similarities…………….but it was different from both Karmarie's AND Shimmer's, who we know are the same person. So I thought, “Well, if she can have two IP addresses, why not three?”
What are you talking about Mike? I shut down my computer every night. Didnt you know IP addresses reset when you do that from what iv heard?Quote Shimmer did it for a while before admitting she was really Karmarie.
Yeah, one week. And had I Mike recieved, as karmarie, a single tile? no. Can you find any posts of mine which have been reported? Probably not.Quote That's exactly what Shimmer used to do. Ignore all the hateful words towards others while telling him, “Great post, JA! I agree with everything you said.”
Thats a lie Mike, lies and personal attacks are against the board rules, and its what you have just done here to me, and also what you have done to me publically before. I agree with truth as it is spoken, whatever is going on between you and someone else is not my business. Find the post where I agreed with any attacks against you, I know you wont find it because it doesnt exist. As I have said, YOU aggrevate people. And, if im to recieve my first tile, then here…..your a JERK Mike. And your the only person here I would call that.Your a jerk because you have no concern for anyone elses welfare but your own. You have absolutly no concern for others, unless of course they are in your little cult group. I have been attacked by people on this forum Mike, as karmarie and as shimmer, and you did NOTHING to help me.
A GOOD moderator would only talk about things such as you are here privatly. They would approach the poster/s privately.
So, stop talking about me in public forum.
Quote (942767 @ Feb. 04 2011,03:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 03 2011,08:44) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 02 2011,15:09)
When I show you the scriptures you always state that I am being selective.
MartyAnd the scriptures I have given you do not line up with your interpretation of those scriptures.
Tell me Marty, Is John 14:16 scripture or not? If it is then please explain why Jesus said he will pray the Father to send another?
Please explain how your interpretation of 1 Cor 2:7-13 matches John 14:16.
I already know you reject Matt 28:19 as scripture.
WJ
Hi Keith:Jesus was going to his position at the right hand of the Father, and while he was with them he was their comforter (helper), and so he said, another comforter (helper) because he was going to baptize believers with the Holy Ghost after he was glorified, but he made it plain that the comforter (helper) of whom he spoke was already with them in that he was dwelling with them and would be in them.
In 2 John we have the following scripture:
Quote 2 John 2:9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. And so, now we as his disciples have both he (Jesus) and our God our Father as our comforter (helper).
Love in Christ,
Marty
Excellent Post Marty!Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 04 2011,04:06) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 03 2011,11:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 03 2011,08:44) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 02 2011,15:09)
When I show you the scriptures you always state that I am being selective.
MartyAnd the scriptures I have given you do not line up with your interpretation of those scriptures.
Tell me Marty, Is John 14:16 scripture or not? If it is then please explain why Jesus said he will pray the Father to send another?
Please explain how your interpretation of 1 Cor 2:7-13 matches John 14:16.
I already know you reject Matt 28:19 as scripture.
WJ
Hi Keith:Jesus was going to his position at the right hand of the Father, and while he was with them he was their comforter (helper), and so he said, another comforter (helper) because he was going to baptize believers with the Holy Ghost after he was glorified, but he made it plain that the comforter (helper) of whom he spoke was already with them in that he was dwelling with them and would be in them.
In 2 John we have the following scripture:
Quote 2 John 2:9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. And so, now we as his disciples have both he (Jesus) and our God our Father as our comforter (helper).
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi MartyThat is a non answer Marty because Jesus clearly said “that he would pray the Father, and the Father would send another“.
Why did he use that language if he was speaking of the Father. Would the Father be the “other” that the Father sends?
That makes no sense Marty.
Jesus could have easily said the Father that was in him would come to you.
WJ
Hi WJ,That is because the “other” that the father sent was Jesus.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 03 2011,13:10) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 04 2011,04:06) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 03 2011,11:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 03 2011,08:44) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 02 2011,15:09)
When I show you the scriptures you always state that I am being selective.
MartyAnd the scriptures I have given you do not line up with your interpretation of those scriptures.
Tell me Marty, Is John 14:16 scripture or not? If it is then please explain why Jesus said he will pray the Father to send another?
Please explain how your interpretation of 1 Cor 2:7-13 matches John 14:16.
I already know you reject Matt 28:19 as scripture.
WJ
Hi Keith:Jesus was going to his position at the right hand of the Father, and while he was with them he was their comforter (helper), and so he said, another comforter (helper) because he was going to baptize believers with the Holy Ghost after he was glorified, but he made it plain that the comforter (helper) of whom he spoke was already with them in that he was dwelling with them and would be in them.
In 2 John we have the following scripture:
Quote 2 John 2:9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. And so, now we as his disciples have both he (Jesus) and our God our Father as our comforter (helper).
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi MartyThat is a non answer Marty because Jesus clearly said “that he would pray the Father, and the Father would send another“.
Why did he use that language if he was speaking of the Father. Would the Father be the “other” that the Father sends?
That makes no sense Marty.
Jesus could have easily said the Father that was in him would come to you.
WJ
Hi WJ,That is because the “other” that the father sent was Jesus.
EDBut wait, you say Jesus is the “Son of the Holy Spirit” so how can he be the Holy Spirit that the Father sent?
Then who did Jesus send?
“But when the Comforter is come, “whom I will send unto you from the Father“, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 15:26
So Jesus will send himself from the Father and testify of himself?
Did Jesus send himself? Did Jesus send the Father from the Father?
WJ
Hi Mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 02 2011,21:54) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 03 2011,05:18) Exactly, and who is it above all others? Jesus sits next to the Father, not beneath him, nor above him, but beside him
Good point Keith,Who IS it that is “ABOVE ALL OTHERS”?
It is the Father and Jesus, because Jesus sits beside him which is a metaphor of equality with the Father. Revelation tells us Jesus sits in the Fathers throne which is the throne of God. Would any being other than God sit in God’s throne?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 02 2011,21:54)
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Yea think about that, the head of Christ is God, just as the head of woman is man, which means that Christ is no less God than the woman would be less human than man.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 02 2011,21:54) Also, Jesus said that to grant who sits on HIS left or right is up to the Father, right?
The scriptures also say that Jesus “will grant” the right to him who overcomes, so doesn’t that make Jesus equal? After all the Kingdom is his Kingdom.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 02 2011,21:54)
Do you think that the ones who ARE chosen to sit BESIDE Jesus will be the same being as Jesus?
If not, then why would you think Jesus is the same being as God if it is clear that Jesus sits BESIDE God? 
Cherry picking in action.
Once again, you are comparing finite man to an infinite God. Will we ever have all authority and power? Will all things be made subject to us? Will all things ever be upheld by the word of our power? Will all things ever consist by us? Will we ever be able to dwell in the “temple of God” or bodies of every believer all at the same time?Besides you are leaving out a whole lot in your statement because we find in scriptures we will not at anytime share the “throne of God” with Jesus and the Father. For the “Throne of God” is reserved only for God!
So who is it that is cherry picking?
WJ
Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 04 2011,04:55) Didn't think I would see this did you Mike?
Of course I thought you'd see it. I posted it to you, didn't I?mike
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Feb. 03 2011,15:43) Mike,
lol Im glad im not the only one who thinks so.
I think JA is feeding info to another person.That my hypothesis.
I agree with you completly D,but let's ask HER:
thankful, are you the same person who has posted here as both “Karmarie” and “Shimmer”? And are you posting thoughts that JA/Istari has asked you to post since he's now banned?
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 03 2011,09:07) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 02 2011,17:01) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 03 2011,08:48) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 02 2011,14:11)
Francis,Require Mike to give the link to the TWOT. He quoted the TWOT out of context last year and I caught him because I have the TWOT in print. Mike does not give the link so you can check him out.
JackI don't think there is a link.
I have been looking for the TWOT online but can't find it available so I purchased the book. But you are right Mike did leave that line out.
WJ
Keith,Then I will have to be the “watch dog” when Mike cites the TWOT.
Jack
JackMaybe, but I gave Francis the information on how to purchase it.
Blessings Keith
Keith,Francis emailed me today about it. We gotta watch Mike as he has repeatedly shown that his use of sources is somewhat underhanded.
I'll never forget how he omitted the TWOT's statement that the special form of 'adon' (adonay) always refers to God
Quote When adon appears in the special form, with a first common singular pronominal suffix ('adonay), it always refers to God. TWOT #27, P. 13
In Psalm 110:1 David said that his 'adon' was at YHWH's right hand. The word 'adon' may refer to men or to God. But in verse 5 David addressed YHWH saying, “My Adonay at your right hand shall execute judgment….” This means, “My God at your right hand shall execute judgment….”Now Mike is pulling the same underhanded crap with the TWOT regarding 'elohim' as I showed yesterday.
Jack
Quote (mikeangel @ Feb. 03 2011,21:07) I told you! Hang in there! Peace and much love-Mark
Slow down there Marky Mark,She has been using very good common sense to DISPUTE the trinity doctrine on this thread.
I've even complimented her on the points she has made here.
I believe you to be a good man Mark, and I like you.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Feb. 04 2011,00:57) Quote (thankful @ Feb. 03 2011,14:03) mikeboll64 and simplyforgiven, are you both scared of some of the things im saying?
Oh balony, there hasnt ben a day i would be scared to answer ur questions
And I agree with what you've said in this thread. Why would I be “scared”?mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 04 2011,10:04) Quote (mikeangel @ Feb. 03 2011,21:07) I told you! Hang in there! Peace and much love-Mark
Slow down there Marky Mark,She has been using very good common sense to DISPUTE the trinity doctrine on this thread.
I've even complimented her on the points she has made here.
I believe you to be a good man Mark, and I like you.
peace and love,
mike
But she did it so kindly. I was just sayin she seemed nice and I saw her little minnow self swimming into a swarm of hungry fish.
And i smelled the result comming. i was once nieve like that. i still love ya'll Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 04 2011,01:13)
Yeah that's right Mike! I stand with the scriptures.
Then stand with the ones that specifically tell us who our only God is. (Hint: Scripture says it is the FATHER, not the Son or a Father/Son combination.)Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 04 2011,01:13)
The Bible CLEARLY says that Jesus existed in the form of God
And to you, being in the form OF God means Jesus WAS God? Why would Paul say form OF God then? Why not just say, “Who, existing AS God…..”? Jack, “form OF God” could simply mean that Jesus was existing as a very powerful spirit being before he came in the flesh. This is a COMPARISON, Jack. And I've been working with Keith lately in an effort to make him understand that people aren't COMPARED to themselves.
In other words, if Jesus is said to be “as powerful AS God”, then that statement makes it clear he's NOT God, because he's COMPARED TO God. Get it? The same would apply to “form OF God”, because it basically says Jesus had the “same form AS God”. And as soon as you add the words “AS God”, then it becomes clear that he is NOT the God he is as “good AS” or as “smart AS” or as “powerful AS”.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 04 2011,01:13)
It says that God HIGHLY EXALTED Him
Think out what you just said, Jack. “GOD…………highly exalted……………WHO”? Well, since it makes no sense for God to “exalt” Himself, then whoever it is that was exalted BY God is someone OTHER THAN God.Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 04 2011,01:13)
His Father was greater than Him THEN because He was STILL as servant.
And he still is God's SERVANT, Jack. Scripture says so 4 times in the Book of Acts.Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 04 2011,01:13)
He is at the right hand of the Father now which is the position of EQUALITY.
Can you show me any instance in the history of the world where someone's “right hand man” was 100% EQUAL to the one who made him his “right hand man”? How about an instance where someone's “right hand man” was the SAME EXACT BEING as the one who made him his “right hand man”?Of course not. Why? Because the “right hand position” is a position of honor and power that was bestowed upon someone……………….BY THE ONE WHO IS POWERFUL ENOUGH TO BESTOW POWER UPON THEM. And THAT one is the more powerful of the two, and is NEVER the same being as the one he appointed to his right hand position. “Right hand” doesn't mean “equality”, but “SECOND to the top”.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 04 2011,01:13)
Paul said that Christ is “ALL IN ALL” NOW (Colossians 3:11). Paul said that Christ WILL BE subject to the Father and at that time God will become all in all. If Christ is subject to the Father now, then the statement that He WILL BE subject MAKES NO SENSE.
What makes no sense is that you think God will subject himself to God, so God can be all in all.Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 04 2011,01:13)
And your view makes no sense because you infer that Jesus was highly exalted from servant to servant.
Come on Jack. At least post something that I have to THINK a little bit about. Are you saying that if God's servant David was exalted to an even higher position than the one he had on earth, then he couldn't still be a servant of his God? I love you, Jack
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 02 2011,21:54)
Who IS it that is “ABOVE ALL OTHERS”?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 04 2011,06:39)
It is the Father and Jesus, because Jesus sits beside him which is a metaphor of equality with the Father.
But the scripture doesn't SAY “the Father AND Jesus”, does it? Nope. It CLEARLY says that GOD is the HEAD of JESUS. And that means that GOD is “above all others”, INCLUDING JESUS, right?You are apparently seeing that statement as saying, “Since God is the HEAD of Jesus, then Jesus must BE God”. But it is just plain senseless to come to that conclusion based on the actual words that were written.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 04 2011,06:39)
Revelation tells us Jesus sits in the Fathers throne which is the throne of God. Would any being other than God sit in God’s throne?
Well, would any other being besides Jesus sit in Jesus' throne? Yet Jesus says he will grant to sit with him in HIS throne to those who overcome, right? And if Jesus is “God” because God GRANTED him to sit in God's throne WITH HIM for a while, then those who Jesus grants to sit in HIS throne will also be God, right? That IS what you're saying with your point, right……………that no one but God can sit in God's throne? So all who overcome will be God too, according to your understanding.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 04 2011,06:39)
Yea think about that, the head of Christ is God, just as the head of woman is man, which means that Christ is no less God than the woman would be less human than man.
I should post one of Jack's little blue guys scratching his head for this senseless drivel, Keith.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 02 2011,21:54)
Do you think that the ones who ARE chosen to sit BESIDE Jesus will be the same being as Jesus? If not, then why would you think Jesus is the same being as God if it is clear that Jesus sits BESIDE God? Cherry picking in action. Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 04 2011,06:39)
Once again, you are comparing finite man to an infinite God.
Answer the question for real, Keith. How am I comparing “finite man”? Will the ones who overcome and are raised to heaven and sit on Jesus' right and left still going to be “finite man”? Or will they be sons of God and brothers to Jesus and heirs along with Jesus? Won't they be “like the angels” and immortal at that time? So your answer is a diversion. Answer it FOR REAL. Tell me how someone sitting beside Jesus in heaven doesn't have to be the being of Jesus, but when Jesus is said to sit beside his God, all of a sudden he must actually BE the being of “God”.Listing the ways that Jesus is higher than anyone else in existence besides his God does NOT answer the question. Will they be as powerful as Jesus, Mike? Well, no Keith. But does that answer my point? NO.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 04 2011,06:39)
Besides you are leaving out a whole lot in your statement because we find in scriptures we will not at anytime share the “throne of God” with Jesus and the Father. For the “Throne of God” is reserved only for God!
What we find out from scripture is that God grants Jesus to sit in His throne WITH HIM for a while. That means that Jesus is ruling FOR his God for a while. Much like Pharoah gave Joseph the run of the country for a while.But THEN, after God has placed the enemies at Jesus' feet and allowed Jesus to destroy them, Jesus will defer the main rule back to his God. At that time, God will rule over mankind DIRECTLY from New Jerusalem. But Jesus will STILL be the second most powerful ruler in existence and will still play his part………along with the twelve and the 144,000. It is much like ranks in the military, I imagine. God is the “Admiral”, Jesus is the “4 Star General”, the twelve will be like “Colonels”, and so on down the line.
But right now, for His own reasons, the Admiral has deferred all power and authority to His General for a while. It doesn't mean the General IS the Admiral, nor does it even mean the General has as much power and authority AS the Admiral. It simply means that the General has been allowed to rule IN THE STRENGTH AND NAME OF his Admiral for a while. Just like Micah 5:4 teaches us.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 04 2011,06:39)
So who is it that is cherry picking?
It was ME. I was talking about how I only addressed the first point of your post. I cherry picked! (Not really, because I only read the first point and decided to address only that point for now.)Keith, you know I've got my fingers in many pies here. I don't always have the time to address the whole post. So I'll just let you know once more: If there is a point that I skipped but that's important to you, then ONLY post that ONE point in your next post. And I will surely make the time to address that ONE point. I'm just letting all of you guys know this about me, because if you DO post a lot of points, and I don't have a lot of time, I WILL cherry pick the one point that I WANT to answer.
peace and love to you my friend,
mikeQuote (mikeangel @ Feb. 04 2011,10:33) I saw her little minnow self swimming into a swarm of hungry fish To Francis:
Take your time. But I fear you are going to extraordinary lengths, based on what you posted to Ed J, all for naught.
When you are finally set up and ready to post, please don't waste all of our time by posting a million words of people who think Jesus is God. I couldn't care less. If you have some SOLID information from the synagogue about how the actual Hebrew wording makes it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that the “elohim” in 45:6 was “God Almighty”, then post it. I would like to read it also.
But unless you have information that makes it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that “God is your throne” cannot POSSIBLY be the translation, then you only are left with a “wishful thinking text”, and not a “proof text”.
I fear that you are digging in your heels about Heb 1:8, and will not let it go. But I won't debate this scripture forever, Francis. You have had ample opportunity to show how it is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that, first of all, it even says, “Your throne, O God”, and secondly, the “elohim” in question, who has an “elohim” of his own, is positively “God Almighty”.
I have enjoyed this debate so far, but it is inevitable that there will come a time when you'll have to admit that there is nothing ABUNDANTLY CLEAR about this scripture saying “Jesus is God Almighty”. And I would prefer you accept this FACT sooner, rather then later. And using 1000 words, rather than 2 million.
By the way, don't buy into Jack's claims about me being deceitful, for five reasons:
1. I have never tried to deceive him or anyone else here.
2. By your own words, Jack cannot know my intentions when I post what I do.
3. I clearly posted to you that TWOT said “elohim” meant “God” in their very first line. Must I post every single time they say this very same thing?
4. Anytime you are in doubt about a source I posted, ask for the link, and I will happily give it to you.
5. It is not my responsibility to post things that don't directly support MY view, just as YOU haven't posted anything that supports the NWT's version of 1:8, although that information is out there, because I posted it. Why would I post something that might seem to support YOUR view or expect you to post something that supports MINE? I believe you to be capable enough to find your own support, as am I.Anyway, Jack is making false accusations about me. So please ignore him…………..I usually do.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 04 2011,09:54)
We gotta watch Mike as he has repeatedly shown that his use of sources is somewhat underhanded.
Jack, I asked you nicely to stop the false accusations about me. If you have PROOF of me ever trying to deceive you or anyone else, then show the posts where it happened. Then show that my INTENTION was to deceive someone.If you can't do these things, then I expect an apology.
And why was it MY responsibility to post this nonsense from TWOT?
What you posted CLEARLY says that the word can refer to men. And NETNotes lists “husband”, “prince”, “king”, “governor”, and even “superintendent of household affairs” as definitions.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 04 2011,09:54)
I'll never forget how he omitted the TWOT's statement that the special form of 'adon' (adonay) always refers to GodWhen adon appears in the special form, with a first common singular pronominal suffix ('adonay), it always refers to God.
Now THIS is what TWOT really says about it:
When 'adon appears in the special plural form, with a first common singular pronominal suffix ('adonay), it always refers to God. It appears in this form more than three hundred times, mostly in Psalms, Lamentations, and the latter prophets. Just as 'elohim (God) is plural in Hebrew, so this word might also be called an intensive plural or plural of majesty.
This should hit home for you, right Jack?
Remember how I taught you that the Hebrews would pluralize a word that only referred to ONE as a way of indicating majesty or grandiosity? It's all right there in our debate if you need a refresher course. And what TWOT is saying is that every time the word “adon” is used IN THE PLURAL FORM, it refers to God. So Jack, is the word pluralized in Psalm 110:1? Let's see what else TWOT says about 110:1,
In the simple unsuffixed form or when pointed 'adoni or 'adona (y), for the first common singular suffix or with other pronominal suffixes, 'adon usually refers to men. Sarah used it in reference to her husband (Gen 18:12),………..
They go on to list other examples where the unsuffixed form “adon”, (like the word used of Jesus in 110:1), refers to MEN. Am I being “deceitful” if I don't list all of them?
Anyway, continuing the thought about how the unsuffixed adon usually applied to MEN, TWOT goes on:
However, there are numerous passages, particularly in Psalms, where these forms, which are the only ones to apply to men, refer to God. Exo 34:23 combines “the Lord, YHWH, the God of Israel” (ha'adon yhwh 'elohe yisra'el). Deu 10:17 uses both the singular and plural in the construction “Lord of lords” ('adone ha'adonim; cf. Psa 136:3). In Psa 8:1 [H 2] God has the title “YHWH our Lord” (yhwh 'adonenu). The Messiah bears this title in Psa 110:1.
Read it carefully, Jack. It is saying that on occasion, the form that USUALLY applies to MEN, actually can apply to God. But they know that it applies to God, not because of the actual word used, but because of the other words that are COMBINED with it.
And the last line is rather irrelevant, for it only says that the Messiah also bears the title that has many times been applied to MEN. It is a merely a case of a word that is often applied to MEN being applied to Jesus.
To sum up what I gathered from all of this:
1. Adon is a word that applied to many MEN in the scriptures.
2. Adonay, on the other hand, ALMOST always applies to God. But even though TWOT and Gesenius's Lexicon both assert that the word “adonay” ALWAYS applies to God, they miss a couple of scriptures, where it apparently doesn't.NETNotes says about Isaiah 21:8,
The Hebrew term translated “sovereign master” here is אֲדֹנָי (’adonay). Some translations take this to refer to the Lord (cf. NAB, NASB, NRSV), while others take it to refer to the guard’s human master (“my lord”; cf. NIV, NLT).
So the NET, NIV, NLT, and others DON'T agree with TWOT that it ALWAYS refers to God. And about Ezra 10:3, NETNotes says:
Ezr 10:32tn The MT vocalizes this word as a plural, which could be understood as a reference to God. But the context seems to suggest that a human lord is intended. The apparatus of BHS suggests repointing the word as a singular (“my lord”), but this is unnecessary. The plural (“my lords”) can be understood in an honorific sense even when a human being is in view. Most English versions regard this as a reference to Ezra, so the present translation supplies “your” before “counsel” to make this clear.
So this is yet another instance of the plural form of adon NOT referring to God, according to the majority of English translations. And did you catch how the NET scholars confirmed that the “plural of majesty” can even be used of humans? Just like I taught you a while back, eh?
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 04 2011,09:54)
TWOT #27, P. 13
In Psalm 110:1 David said that his 'adon' was at YHWH's right hand. The word 'adon' may refer to men or to God. But in verse 5 David addressed YHWH saying, “My Adonay at your right hand shall execute judgment….” This means, “My God at your right hand shall execute judgment….”
Yes Jack. Verse 5 DOES use the word “Adonay” and it DOES refer to YHVH God. Unfortunately, the word used for Jesus in verse 1 is NOT “Adonay”, but “adon”. But maybe you're confused about the two uses of “right hand”? There is one use in scripture that refers to someone's “right hand man”. And there is another use in scripture where having God “at your right hand” means that God and His power are with you during your battle or trial or whatever.I tried and tried to discuss “right hand” with you in our first debate. But you knew where it would lead, and so would have nothing to do with it. Remember? I begged and begged you to let us move on to the “right hand” issue. Maybe it's time to discuss it now, since its use in Psalm 110 is confusing you.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 04 2011,09:54) Now Mike is pulling the same underhanded crap with the TWOT regarding 'elohim' as I showed yesterday.
Jack, the bottom line is that your claims are false. The one about adon meaning Jesus is God in 110:1, and the one about me being deceitful about anything. The very first thing I posted from TWOT concerning “elohim” is that they said it meant “God”. So how was I being “deceitful” towards Francis?You really need to knock it off now. You are falsely accusing me of being dishonest. And you are doing it without showing any “proof”, but instead just claiming it out of the blue. I've warned you twice now, and have asked you to stop. If you continue to do it, I will give you a tile. Because this is not an argument that we are in, this is simply a case of you LYING about me. It is against HN rules, and I AM a moderator.
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 04 2011,05:30) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 03 2011,13:10) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 04 2011,04:06) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 03 2011,11:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 03 2011,08:44) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 02 2011,15:09)
When I show you the scriptures you always state that I am being selective.
MartyAnd the scriptures I have given you do not line up with your interpretation of those scriptures.
Tell me Marty, Is John 14:16 scripture or not? If it is then please explain why Jesus said he will pray the Father to send another?
Please explain how your interpretation of 1 Cor 2:7-13 matches John 14:16.
I already know you reject Matt 28:19 as scripture.
WJ
Hi Keith:Jesus was going to his position at the right hand of the Father, and while he was with them he was their comforter (helper), and so he said, another comforter (helper) because he was going to baptize believers with the Holy Ghost after he was glorified, but he made it plain that the comforter (helper) of whom he spoke was already with them in that he was dwelling with them and would be in them.
In 2 John we have the following scripture:
Quote 2 John 2:9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. And so, now we as his disciples have both he (Jesus) and our God our Father as our comforter (helper).
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi MartyThat is a non answer Marty because Jesus clearly said “that he would pray the Father, and the Father would send another“.
Why did he use that language if he was speaking of the Father. Would the Father be the “other” that the Father sends?
That makes no sense Marty.
Jesus could have easily said the Father that was in him would come to you.
WJ
Hi WJ,That is because the “other” that the father sent was Jesus.
ED(1)But wait, you say Jesus is the “Son of the Holy Spirit” so how can he be the Holy Spirit that the Father sent?
(2)Then who did Jesus send?
(3)”But when the Comforter is come, “whom I will send unto you from the Father“, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 15:26
(4)So Jesus will send himself from the Father and testify of himself?
(5)Did Jesus send himself? (6)Did Jesus send the Father from the Father?
WJ
Hi WJ,1) I never said Jesus was the “HolySpirit”?
2) John 16:7
3) John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself;
but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
4) He will send “the Spirit” of the Father, who will testify of Jesus! (Romans 8:16)
5) Neither came I of myself, but he sent me. (John 8:42)
6) John 14:23 / Hebrews 9:29 / Isaiah 64:4-5God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 04 2011,06:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 02 2011,21:54)
Who IS it that is “ABOVE ALL OTHERS”?
Hi MikeIt is the Father and Jesus, because Jesus sits beside him which is a metaphor of equality with the Father.
Revelation tells us Jesus sits in the Fathers throne which is the throne of God.
Would any being other than God sit in God’s throne?WJ
Hi WJ,So what (according to you) does Rev.3:21 tell you what will become of us?
Rev.3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne,
even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 04 2011,13:36) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 04 2011,01:13)
The Bible CLEARLY says that Jesus existed in the form of God
And to you, being in the form OF God means Jesus WAS God? Why would Paul say form OF God then? Why not just say, “Who, existing AS God…..”? Jack, “form OF God” could simply mean that Jesus was existing as a very powerful spirit being before he came in the flesh. This is a COMPARISON, Jack. And I've been working with Keith lately in an effort to make him understand that people aren't COMPARED to themselves.
In other words, if Jesus is said to be “as powerful AS God”, then that statement makes it clear he's NOT God, because he's COMPARED TO God. Get it? The same would apply to “form OF God”, because it basically says Jesus had the “same form AS God”. And as soon as you add the words “AS God”, then it becomes clear that he is NOT the God he is as “good AS” or as “smart AS” or as “powerful AS”.
Psalm 17Hear, Yahweh, my righteous plea; Give ear to my prayer, that doesn't go out of deceitful lips.
Let my sentence come forth from your presence. Let your eyes look on equity.
You have proved my heart. You have visited me in the night. You have tried me, and found nothing. I have resolved that my mouth shall not disobey.
As for the works of men, by the word of your lips, I have kept myself from the ways of the violent.
My steps have held fast to your paths. My feet have not slipped.
I have called on you, for you will answer me, God. Turn your ear to me. Hear my speech.
Show your marvelous loving kindness, you who save those who take refuge by your right hand from their enemies.
Keep me as the apple of your eye. Hide me under the shadow of your wings,
from the wicked who oppress me, my deadly enemies, who surround me.
They close up their callous hearts. With their mouth they speak proudly.
They have now surrounded us in our steps. They set their eyes to cast us down to the earth.
He is like a lion that is greedy of his prey, as it were a young lion lurking in secret places.
Arise, Yahweh, confront him. Cast him down. Deliver my soul from the wicked by your sword; from men by your hand, Yahweh, from men of the world, whose portion is in this life. You fill the belly of your cherished ones. Your sons have plenty, and they store up wealth for their children.
As for me, I shall see your face in righteousness. I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with seeing your form.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 04 2011,13:06) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Feb. 04 2011,00:57) Quote (thankful @ Feb. 03 2011,14:03) mikeboll64 and simplyforgiven, are you both scared of some of the things im saying?
Oh balony, there hasnt ben a day i would be scared to answer ur questions
And I agree with what you've said in this thread. Why would I be “scared”?mike
no, we dont agree on everything. im only here to learn. i dont claim that i know it all.i believe God continues to reveal himself to people and my mind is always open to learn.
and theres unanswered questions in another thread which you have avoided answering mikeboll64!
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