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Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Feb. 02 2011,18:42) You say God is the Father?
Was GOD always the FATHER since Eternity?
God could not have been ALWAYS the father. to be a father means begetting a son, therefore God was not the father until he begat a son.and if God was not a father, then there was no son; and if there was no son, there was no trinity!
and, before you say anything: ALL sentient beings, in the day they are created, are, sons of God…….and God is their father. but, they have different degrees of sonship,
if jesus, “in the beginning” was alone created and then God created all else through him, he was still the first created by God, and therefore was not until he was, and God was not the father, until he was.
thankful said:
Quote ALL sentient beings, in the day they are created, are, sons of God…….
There is no scripture which says that all sentient beings are sons of god. hebrews 1 says that angels are not sons of God, “To which of the angels did He ever say, 'You are my son' “?Roo
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 03 2011,06:11) Francis, Last year Mike tried to manipulate the TWOT on the word “adonay” which is the proper name for God.
KJ Jr.
Hi Jack,How long will you continue to perpetuate this 'fallacy'?
The proper name for God is [יהוה] (YÄ-hä-vā) YHVH!
[אדני] Âd-ô-nây means Lord or Owner, and IS “NOT” A NAME.Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 03 2011,13:06) thankful said: Quote ALL sentient beings, in the day they are created, are, sons of God…….
There is no scripture which says that all sentient beings are sons of god. hebrews 1 says that angels are not sons of God, “To which of the angels did He ever say, 'You are my son' “?Roo
then who are the sons of God in job and genesis?“when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”…….stars are refered to as angels, which here are refered to as sons of God.
Quote (thankful @ Feb. 03 2011,09:44) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Feb. 02 2011,18:42) You say God is the Father?
Was GOD always the FATHER since Eternity?
God could not have been ALWAYS the father. to be a father means begetting a son, therefore God was not the father until he begat a son.and if God was not a father, then there was no son; and if there was no son, there was no trinity!
and, before you say anything: ALL sentient beings, in the day they are created, are, sons of God…….and God is their father. but, they have different degrees of sonship,
if jesus, “in the beginning” was alone created and then God created all else through him, he was still the first created by God, and therefore was not until he was, and God was not the father, until he was.
And he was also from the beginning. The only entity besides God and the spirit that was and is and ever shall be. They three are from forever to forever. Everything else is not. I don't understand it. Thank God I don't have to. I just trust God and follow his commandments and believe in Jesus. Amen.Quote (thankful @ Feb. 03 2011,10:19) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 03 2011,13:06) thankful said: Quote ALL sentient beings, in the day they are created, are, sons of God…….
There is no scripture which says that all sentient beings are sons of god. hebrews 1 says that angels are not sons of God, “To which of the angels did He ever say, 'You are my son' “?Roo
then who are the sons of God in job and genesis?“when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”…….stars are refered to as angels, which here are refered to as sons of God.
Job is wrongly translated. It should be translated “mighty ones.” In Genesis the sons of God were the godly line of Seth. They intermarried with pagan women and so God brought the flood to purge Seth's line so Christ could come.Roo
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 03 2011,10:06) thankful said: Quote ALL sentient beings, in the day they are created, are, sons of God…….
There is no scripture which says that all sentient beings are sons of god. hebrews 1 says that angels are not sons of God, “To which of the angels did He ever say, 'You are my son' “?Roo
Hi Jack,You left out the most important part of that verse…
Heb.1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time,
Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?
And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 03 2011,11:52) Thanks for answering. So does this mean you serve the Father who is God but you serve Jesus who is “a god”?
jesus said the father is greater than he.is there something wrong with serving the father and the son? (“whoever denies the son, the same doesnt have the father. he who confesses the son has the father also.)
many young people (such as i was), believe that jesus is the only existance that is God. they, then, later, may learn there is a father who is above the son. they can still keep praying to the son, but, they know that through the son, God the father hears them. theres no need for even a name. jesus prayed 'father'.
no-one goes to the father, but through the son.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Feb. 03 2011,11:15) Hi all,
im pretty sure that “thankful” is JA or istari alais.
if im wrong pls correct me.
Are you kidding me, She does not sound like JA at all….
IreneQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Feb. 03 2011,14:15) Hi all,
im pretty sure that “thankful” is JA or istari alais.
if im wrong pls correct me.
i assure you, im not “ja or istari' though im familiar with “ja or istaris” writings. i have been reading them a lot in the last week here. and i must say, we do agree, it seems, on a lot of things, as i have said i have also read the writings of the front page of this site, and agree, it seems, on a lot of that.but, it doesnt make me them does it? why would you say that?
the reason i never further commented on enquiries into my name, is because why would i use my real name, as a woman, on an internet (public) forum? its called 'internet safety'.
gosh.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 03 2011,16:03) thankful said; Quote jesus said the father is greater than he.
He said that before He was exalted.Roo
hmmm. my time here for today is up. but, will think about that.God bless
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Feb. 02 2011,15:51) If we cant agree what elohim means, how are you so sure that we agree about who and what God means?
Hi D,I will agree for you, as I did for Francis, that “eloihim” CAN MEAN “God”. “El Shaddai” is the one that “means” God Almighty. So, here is our first task:
If “elohim” CAN mean “God”, but can also mean “vice-regent OF God”, then you need some kind of proof to show Heb 1:8 referred to “God Almighty” and not a “vice regent of God”, right?
But first, show me how it is impossible that Hebrews 1:8 actually says “God is your throne forever”, or “Your throne is eternal, like God”. Because these are actually possibilities given not only by the NWT, but by trinitarian scholars.
If you can't show ABUNDANTLY CLEAR evidence that “Your throne, O God” is the ONLY possible translation of 1:8, then it's all really a moot point, and therefore NOT any kind of proof that Jesus is God. And if that is the case, like I told Francis, “what else ya got?”.
As far as you only answering to what I post, I'll tell you what I just told Keith:
I will only cherry pick ONE thing to respond to in YOUR post, so you might as well just cherry pick ONE of my points. Answer them all if you want, but I will only respond to one of yours, unless I have loads of time on my hands. So if there is a point that you feel is really important to the discussion, then post ONLY that point.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 03 2011,01:37) Those who cling to the statement “My Father is gretar than I” refuse to accept that that was Christ's temporary status. He preexisted as God but then took the form of a servant. Then He was exalted to His rightful equality with God again.
And there you have it folks!Jesus WAS God, but then had the temporary status of less than God, but then was raised back to being God again, all just to end up less than God again when he subjects himself to God in the end.
And they say the trinity doctrine makes no sense!
peace and love to all of you,
mikeQuote (Baker @ Feb. 03 2011,05:16) I go unto the Father; for my Father is greater then I. nothing about only when He walked on earth, on the contrary, I go unto my Father??nothing temporary about this… MMMMMMMM
Great point, Irene!I never even considered that!
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 03 2011,05:18) Exactly, and who is it above all others? Jesus sits next to the Father, not beneath him, nor above him, but beside him
Good point Keith,Who IS it that is “ABOVE ALL OTHERS”?
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.Also, Jesus said that to grant who sits on HIS left or right is up to the Father, right? Do you think that the ones who ARE chosen to sit BESIDE Jesus will be the same being as Jesus?
If not, then why would you think Jesus is the same being as God if it is clear that Jesus sits BESIDE God? 
Cherry picking in action.
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 03 2011,08:48) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 02 2011,14:11)
Francis,Require Mike to give the link to the TWOT. He quoted the TWOT out of context last year and I caught him because I have the TWOT in print. Mike does not give the link so you can check him out.
JackI don't think there is a link.
I have been looking for the TWOT online but can't find it available so I purchased the book. But you are right Mike did leave that line out.
WJ
Hi Keith,In NETNotes, if you double click on the Strong number, it will take you to another page that sometimes lists what the TWOT says about it.
Below is also a list of usage and OCCURANCES (way at the bottom of the page) in the NETBible, which has proved to be helpful to me.
But this is from where I quoted the TWOT to Francis. And Jack is just blowing smoke and making false accusations as usual. The very first words I quoted from TWOT were how they immediately said the word “meant” God. So I don't even know what he's talking about, also as usual.
mike
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 03 2011,09:08) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 03 2011,08:48) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 02 2011,14:11)
Francis,Require Mike to give the link to the TWOT. He quoted the TWOT out of context last year and I caught him because I have the TWOT in print. Mike does not give the link so you can check him out.
JackI don't think there is a link.
I have been looking for the TWOT online but can't find it available so I purchased the book. But you are right Mike did leave that line out.
WJ
The red bolded part is our Mikey. You can be a “watch dog” too.Jack
Jack,You're wearing my patience thin. You are accusing me of some kind of wrong doing. Please spell out for all of us what deceptive thing I did.
By the way, you can find the same information about “el” and “elohim” that I posted in the Catholic Encyclopedia, among other places.
mike
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