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Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 29 2011,23:13) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 30 2011,05:06) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 29 2011,23:01) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 30 2011,04:40) …no more than he could prove to an Atheist that God exist.
Hi WJ,I have proved to atheists that God exists!
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
A bit conceited of you dont you think?
all Glory to God.
Hi SF,Don't you like “Facts”?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
your “facts” are your beliefs.
The aboslute truth doesnt need facts or to be proven,
IT is what it is.You are taking credit for “proving” God existance to a athiest, like you discovered God or something.
Trust me it works the other way around.
Keith said to Mike:
Quote Have you ever noticed that with all the beating of the chest that you do that even most of the “anti Jesus is God” people here don't agree with you or pipe in to help?
JA is an anti-Jesus person and he left here saying that we are running a truck through Mike's arguments. WJ joyfully dances as KJ drives.
Jack
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 29 2011,21:55) And again, the kid spouts a bunch of unsubstantiated stuff about me PERSONALLY without addressing ANY of the points I AGAIN pointed out to him. 
Dennison, your opinion of me is of no consequence to me. If you have SCRIPTURAL reasons why what I claim is wrong, then bring THEM on. But the reason I've stopped responding to the little debate WE were having in this thread is because you can't DIRECTLY answer the simple question, “Does God Almighty have a God?” And I have no time to chase your imagination here and there if you refuse to admit the OBVIOUS points I bring up.
The same goes with Francis. I could ask him if he has two legs, and instead of a “YES”, I will get 4000 words about everything in the world. I have neither the time nor the patience for that. If Francis wants to post a million words, then I will skim them and respond ONLY to what is RELEVANT to our “Micah 5:4/Rev 3:12/Heb 1:8/Psalm 45:6” discussion right now.
And if he feels I've neglected to answer what he thinks is an important point, then he can bring that point back up into my attention by bolding it or simply asking me to address it.
But for all the millions of words he's posted so far, the only things that are relevant to our debate are these:
1. Being called “elohim” does not make you God Almighty.
2. The “Your throne O God” translation of 1:8 and 45:6 is only a POSSIBLE translation.
3. Micah DOES list Jesus as someone OTHER THAN and LESSOR TO his God without listing any time limits for this inferiority.
4. Many TRINITARIAN scholars seem to agree that 45:6 wasn't about “God Almighty”, so having that statement applied to Jesus later would not make it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that it all of a sudden BECAME about “God Almighty”.
5. God Almighty does NOT have a “God”, so the fact that 1:9 mentions the God OF this first god does make it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR to any logical person that the first god cannot possibly BE the “God Almighty” who is HIS God.D, I have made an ongoing thread where people contribute “Jesus is NOT God” scriptures. There are many of them there. What if I just copied and pasted them all to you right now and expected you to answer each one of them in one post? Your post would take you hours of research and time to answer. I would not put that kind of demands on you, and Francis should not put them on me.
I can't help it if he must use 100 words to say what anyone else can say in 2 words. I will not answer them all. And to be honest, I rarely read them all. I skim them for points that are relevant to the discussion at hand. And if that gives me the advantage of “cherry picking”, then so be it. I've point blank told Keith months ago that if he wants to post miles of stuff in one post, then I will pick the ONE that I WANT to address. And if you, Francis or Keith don't like that, then post only ONE point and I will surely address that ONE point.
Now, which of Francis' points SPECIFICALLY did I not addresss that have you concerned? Post ONE of them here, and I will address it or show you where I already DID address it. If you're not willing to do that, then pipe down about it.
mike
Lol should i remind you about all the points you IGNORED???
should i REPOST IT?because you ignored TWO of my post, yet im claiming “unsubstantiated stuff”.?? really?
This is not a OPINION its what you are DOING.
Its facts tha all can see for themselves that you ignore points and try to shy everyone way from your faulty logic.dude i answered your question again and again.
Imaginations are all the post you create with fallacies.
Just because your scared, and you cant fess up to your mistakes, doesnt mean we are going to let you continue with your nonesense.So ONLY YOU DECIDE WHATS REVELANT?
WOW mike your a GOD to yourself.ANSWER every POINT.
And you willl lose.
Its as simple as that.why dont you answer all the points where Francis correted you about your debate fallacies, or your “red herrings”
To Francis
Quote pss TO ANYONE INTERESTED: I don't mind getting feedback from others as to whether or not I'm being unreasonable. If the consensus is that I'm being reasonable, then I will stand with what I've written.
If the consensus is that I'm being a bit unreasonable to not want to move forward until Mike deals with “elohim”… then I will move forward.
STAND YOUR GROUND.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 29 2011,15:01) To Francis Quote pss TO ANYONE INTERESTED: I don't mind getting feedback from others as to whether or not I'm being unreasonable. If the consensus is that I'm being reasonable, then I will stand with what I've written.
If the consensus is that I'm being a bit unreasonable to not want to move forward until Mike deals with “elohim”… then I will move forward.
STAND YOUR GROUND.
Amen!Francis, don't let him getaway with his distractions!
WJ
Francis said:
Quote pss TO ANYONE INTERESTED: I don't mind getting feedback from others as to whether or not I'm being unreasonable. If the consensus is that I'm being reasonable, then I will stand with what I've written.
If the consensus is that I'm being a bit unreasonable to not want to move forward until Mike deals with “elohim”… then I will move forward.
francis,You are more than reasonable. You are a gentleman. Mike is a jerk.
Jack
HI All,
Quote Well Mike, I think you live in “la la” land. Or maybe it's Twilight Zone. Talk about “wishful thinking”… look who's talking. And who said anything about “irrefuable proof text” anyway? Not I. Which brings up the other issue which you so conveniently glossed over and ignored. What on earth do you mean by “irrefutable proof” to begin with? Or even… what does “prove/proof” mean to you? You sure love to swing those kinds of words and phrases around, but I have a very distinct impression that you are not using the word as i am… and that you are certainly not using and applying it fairly to yourself and your beliefs.
I have never said I can absolutely… and irrefutably prove ANYTHING outside of math. And neither can you. And neither can anyone else in here. Absolute proof is beyond anyone's capabilities. I've said this a few times now, but it seems to bounce off you.
For example, there is no way you can absolutely and irrefutably prove that God exists. And yet you are willing to die for God without any such absolute and irrefutable proof. What does that say about the nature of the reality of the knowledge that we are living with everyday?
And there is no way you can absolutely and irrefutably prove that you are a real person and not a dream or some sophisticated 3D hologram of some alien somewhere in the universe. And yet you believe otherwise and you live your life as if you aren't.
You can't absolutely and irrefutably prove that tomorrow will exist, and yet you live as if it will as evidenced by the fact that you keep your job and your money.
lol it seems we are not the only one who knows that Mike lives in his own lala land.
but what Francis was talking about, is Faith.In faith we know there is a God.
In Faith we know that we live in Reality
and By faith we close our eyes expecting the sun to rise and waking up tommorow.What does the bible talk about
FAITHfrancis said to Mike:
Quote there is no way you can absolutely and irrefutably prove that you are a real person and not a dream or some sophisticated 3D hologram of some alien somewhere in the universe.
Mike could be from an alien! Yeah!KJ Jr.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 30 2011,06:21) As you know you have not disproven anything that we have proven
As your hero Francis says, nothing but mathematics can be PROVEN. So what is it that your “WE” have PROVEN?
Keith, is being called “elohim” proof of being God Almighty? NO, right? But for years, people have been pointing to John 1:1 and saying, “Well, it says he's “God”, so that's good enough for me.”
But I have easily DISPROVEN that being called “theos” in John 1:1 makes Jesus God Almighty. And guess what? That's just ONE example. They're all that easy Keith. Your “years of proof” is really just “years of wishful thinking”. Do you understand that? No one has ever PROVEN that the scriptures teach Jesus is God. And the “years of wishful thinking texts” are so easily dismantled when you come upon a trinitarian who's willing to discuss only one of them at a time until the bitter end. Once that happens, the truth prevails and we all come to know for a fact that NONE of those “proof texts” even IMPLY that Jesus is God, let alone prove it.
It's happening right now for Francis and all of you who are paying attention. You are all slowly and reluctantly realizing that 1:8 might not even be calling Jesus “elohim” at all, let alone “proving” that he is God Almighty. Stay tuned, Keith. I WILL little by little, scripture by scripture, show all of you that none of this “years of proof” is “proof” at all. It's a whole bunch of nonsense designed by Satan in an effort to get people to break God's commandment by worshipping someone other than God. And it has been accepted by illogical and weak minded men who throw intelligence to the wind by not just claiming, but INSISTING that a Priest OF God can actually BE the God he is the Priest of…………..among many other assinine claims.
Keith, do me a favor like I asked a few posts back, and show me the error in anything I claimed in that post. Show me where I'm mistaken. And if you can't, which is obvious by your choice to post insults instead of refuting the points I made, then accept what I say as truth and expect much more of it during this debate.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 30 2011,06:41) You are a hypocrite and I can't stand your butt!
But I still love you, Jack.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 30 2011,06:58)
Now, which of Francis' points SPECIFICALLY did I not addresss that have you concerned? Post ONE of them here, and I will address it or show you where I already DID address it. If you're not willing to do that, then pipe down about it.
Do you see that word SPECIFICALLY above, D? Do you see the last sentence? Do one or the other, please.Really D? Does God Almighty have a God? YES or NO?
You spouting off about your varied imaginations about the Son actually BEING the Father and such do not constitute an ANSWER to my question. When you actually ANSWER that question, you may ask ONE of your own – and I will surely DIRECTLY answer it.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 30 2011,06:58)
ANSWER every POINT.
And you willl lose.
Its as simple as that.
You have that reversed, D. If YOU answer my points ONE AT A TIME, then YOU will “lose”, and truth will prevail. It's as simple as that. Look at how far we've already come in this thread! So many truths have prevailed already. Isn't that wonderful? Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 30 2011,06:58)
why dont you answer all the points where Francis correted you about your debate fallacies, or your “red herrings”
Why don't YOU mention ONE of them SPECIFICALLY, like I asked, and I will address it. Or, you can just keep spouting harassing crap. The choice is yours.peace and love,
mikeI see you are all telling Francis to “stand his ground” on an issue that is nothing but a diversion so he can stall about the actual debate. I've accepted “God” as a real DEFINITION of the word “elohim” for the purposes of the debate. What more can I do? Would you all have me LIE and say I really believe it when I don't?
I know the word is thought to have meant “fear” or “power” or “strong”. We ALL know this from many sources. It's a big diversion and a matter of Francis trying to “bully” me into saying I believe something I don't. “Say uncle, or I quit!” Well, I don't want him to quit because he's getting a stomping right now, but I'm not going to LIE either. So the ball's in his court.Maybe it's okay for you guys to LIE, but not for me.
Maybe you could all vote on my new poll about “god” being the NAME of our Creator. I'm curious about what you all think on that subject.
Anyway, the fact that you will all say what you did about Francis “standing his ground” only confirms that you don't like the way this debate is going and how many tinity “proofs” I'm disproving, so I think you would all rather see him just quit instead of watching your trinity doctrine get tromped. We've never had a trinitarian on this site that is willing to stand and defend before. And now that we have one, you are all seeing the results of standing and defending, and I'm quite sure none of you like it much.
So yeah, Francis, stand your ground and quit. That's what THEY want, so they don't have to witness the truth that's about to be revealed.
On the other hand, if you seriously think Francis has a chance against me, then you should encourage him to continue despite the fact that the diversion tactic he's trying to employ right now isn't going to work.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 30 2011,08:15) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 30 2011,06:41) You are a hypocrite and I can't stand your butt!
But I still love you, Jack.
Hi Mike,I don't believe Jack likes me either,
so welcome to the club! (John 15:19)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 30 2011,09:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 30 2011,08:15) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 30 2011,06:41) You are a hypocrite and I can't stand your butt!
But I still love you, Jack.
Hi Mike,I don't believe Jack likes me either,
so welcome to the club! (John 15:19)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Yeah, but we still love him, right?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 30 2011,09:41) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 30 2011,09:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 30 2011,08:15) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 30 2011,06:41) You are a hypocrite and I can't stand your butt!
But I still love you, Jack.
Hi Mike,I don't believe Jack likes me either,
so welcome to the club! (John 15:19)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Yeah, but we still love him, right?
Yep!Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 29 2011,09:15) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 28 2011,15:06) Hi Keith: Here are a couple of scriptures for you to ponder:
Quote 10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Nothing about the Holy Spirit in that verse.Quote (942767 @ Jan. 28 2011,15:06) Quote Matthew 10:19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
OK, But why does it say “the Spirit of your Father“?You anti Jesus is God folks always say that Jesus can't be God if he is of God, don't you? Then how can the “Spirit of our Father”, be the Father? Why didn't the writer say simply “For it is not ye that speak, but “the Father which speaketh in you“.
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 28 2011,15:06) Quote Acts 1
1The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,2Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
“after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:“So Jesus is speaking “through the Father”, I thought the Father speaks through the Jesus and the Holy Spirit?
Please explain.
Now here are some scriptures for you…
I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Mk 1:8
So Jesus baptizes us in the Father?
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Acts 2:33
So the promise of the Father Jesus recieved and sent us was the Father himself. Since when did Jesus send the Father?
And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. Acts 5:32
So God gave us the Father?
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us; Acts 15:18
So God gave us the Father?
Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 1 Peter 1:12
So the Father was sent down from heaven?
He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit. 1 Thess 4:8
So God gave us the Father?
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16
So Jesus prays the Father will give himself, even though it says “he shall give you another Comforter”?
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26
Whos is the Father sending here Marty?
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 15:26
Who is Jesus sending here Marty? Is the Father proceeding from himself?
Thats just a few for you to think about.
WJ
Hi WJ:The Comforter is the Holy Ghost:
Quote John 14:26
Butthe Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of God our Father:
Quote 1 Co 2:9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11[/COLOR=blue]For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.[/COLOR]
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost who is the Spirit of God:
Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Ghost when we are born again and we are raised again from the dead:
Quote 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal
bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Jesus said that he was doing and teaching what the Father was showing him. God was doing this through His Spirit who is the Holy Ghost. Jesus said that it was the Father doing the works through him.
I don't know how else to present this to you if you do not understand what is being said.
Quote Matthew 1:20 (King James Version) 20But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
The Holy Ghost is God's Spirit.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 29 2011,11:20) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 29 2011,05:13) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 29 2011,05:07) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 28 2011,12:20) I said that the Holy Spirit if God's person, “He” but not a “Third Person”.
MartyIf the “He” is Gods person then the “He” is the Father. Right?
If not who is “He”?
So once again…
“Is the Holy Spirit the Father of Jesus?“
“Is Jesus the Son of the Holy Spirit?“
A simple Yes or No should be your answer.
WJ
Hi WJ:The answer is yes, the Holy Spirit is the Father of Jesus.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Marty,I believe you have misspoken. God is the Father of Jesus. And God caused Mary to become pregnant BY MEANS OF His Holy Spirit.
mike
Hi Mike:Jesus was conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary by the Spirit of God. God is His Father.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Marty,
You have spoken correctly this time. GOD is the Father of Jesus. NOT God's Holy Spirit. God's Holy Spirit is the “tool” God used to impregnate Mary, like a human male will impregnate someone BY MEANS OF his penis. But the penis does not become the father of the child anymore than the PART OF God He used to impregnate Mary became the father of Jesus.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2011,10:37) Hi Marty, You have spoken correctly this time. GOD is the Father of Jesus. NOT God's Holy Spirit. God's Holy Spirit is the “tool” God used to impregnate Mary, like a human male will impregnate someone BY MEANS OF his penis. But the penis does not become the father of the child anymore than the PART OF God He used to impregnate Mary became the father of Jesus.
peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,Your logic, although a bit graphic, is inaccurate.
Jesus said:
A. The Father in him doeth the work. (John 14:10)
B. With the finger of God Jesus casts out devils and
the kingdom of God is come upon you. (Luke 11:20)Looking at this through physical understanding doesn't work to well.
So if we were to use your logic, we could say(please excuse my graphicness)…1. The “HolySpirit” is God's finger.
2. God used his finger to impregnate Mary.I hope this will give you better understanding. Here are the “Facts”…
God's finger is the “HolySpirit”. (Luke 11:20)
God's spirit is the “HolySpirit”. (Romans 8:11)
God's mind is the “HolySpirit”. (Philippians 2:6)The “HolySpirit” is called God. (Acts 5:3-4)
The “HolySpirit” is Jesus' Father. (Luke 1:35)
One God and Father of all in you all. (Eph.4:4-6)
The Father in Jesus doeth the works. (John 14:10)
Blaspheming the “HolySpirit” will not be forgiven. (Matt.12:31)Is it so hard for you to then connect the dots?… HolySpirit is “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ. (Click Here)
Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
PS> The link is for the readers.
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