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Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 22 2011,05:59) Hi Jack, OK, carry on with the 'pot shot' comments then.
And I will respond to them when I deem it necessary.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
You are a good sport, Ed. 
peace and love,
mikeQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,15:51) Jesus Told Philip if you See him, you see the Father.
He is the IMAGE of the Invisible God.
the Father is IN him, and He is IN the Father.
So your answer is “YES Mike, I DO believe the Son to actually BE the Father”, right?
Just DIRECTLY answer the question, D. Keith and Jack and I can all show you how illogical it is another time in another thread.
For now, I just wanted a “YES” or a “NO”.Can you do that?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,10:19) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,15:47) I am not trying to prove that every mention of Elohim means Supreme being,
What Im trying to prove that the Definitino of Elohim entirely is defined by Context.
Very good.So……….can I add YOU to the list of those who agree that being called “elohim”, IN AND OF ITSELF, is not proof that one is God Almighty?
mike
Actually its you we have been trying to convince because we have been saying that from the beginning.You stated that Satan is the god of this age.
we claimed that Satan was never a god to begin with.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,16:18) 1. And what is GOD/Theos according to you?
2. Why would “God the Supreme Being” (clarity needed) need anyone to create the World?
3. Ummm God? duh? Who happens to be Jesus.
Context says that God created the world, Yet God says Jesus did. shoulnt that tell you something?
Plus i would like to add that Chapter 3 holds the Son as not part of the House but as over it. In other words Jesus is not part of creation, but Lord/Master over it.
Hi D,1. GOD is YHVH, our Creator. “Elohim”, on the other hand, can refer to many different things. And that's why I railed so hard about “god” being an actual DEFINITION of the word “elohim”. Because to us, “God” means ONE thing basically. Elohim did NOT have that same singular meaning. But I have conceded that point for lack of scholarly support.
2. Oh, but you divert. I SUPPOSE that God wouldn't NEED anyone to create. But because He CHOSE to create all things THROUGH His Son does not in any way imply Jesus performed the actual act of creating. Even “laying the foundations of the earth” is not the same a “creating the earth”.
So just work with what's there, D. Does 1:1 say GOD created the universe THROUGH His Son, or does it not?
3. As I said above, Jesus is NEVER in scripture said to have CREATED anything at all.
And I'm willing to discuss the “house” in chapter 3 and your misunderstaning of it at another time.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,10:25) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,15:51) Jesus Told Philip if you See him, you see the Father.
He is the IMAGE of the Invisible God.
the Father is IN him, and He is IN the Father.
So your answer is “YES Mike, I DO believe the Son to actually BE the Father”, right?Just DIRECTLY answer the question, D. Keith and Jack and I can all show you how illogical it is another time in another thread.
For now, I just wanted a “YES” or a “NO”.Can you do that?
peace and love,
mike
Lol I dont know Mike,
I dont know what that means according to you?
What does that Mean mike?
is the Father God yes?
is Jesus God yes?according to Jesus, the Father and himself are one.
Jesus is not the Totality of what God is, because there is the infinite unknowable part of God.
Jesus is the expressed image, of what we know about God.
Better yet, let me say that the Trinity is just the knowable about God by revelation.
But God surpasses the Trinity of course because he is Eternal.Mike do you believe your some kind of “elohim”?
lol, i will not answer questions exactly the way YOU want to.how come you DIDNT answer my questions in my post that took me 4 hours to write in 4 differnt responses?
how come you didnt admit you were wrong?
Can YOU do that?
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,16:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,10:19) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,15:47) I am not trying to prove that every mention of Elohim means Supreme being,
What Im trying to prove that the Definitino of Elohim entirely is defined by Context.
Very good.So……….can I add YOU to the list of those who agree that being called “elohim”, IN AND OF ITSELF, is not proof that one is God Almighty?
mike
Actually its you we have been trying to convince because we have been saying that from the beginning.You stated that Satan is the god of this age.
we claimed that Satan was never a god to begin with.
But see how you're “double talking”? If Satan is called “elohim”, which he is in the Hebrew text of the NT, then he is an elohim. And you are right that he is not God Almighty, but he is as much an elohim as Jesus or Deborah are.But I am glad to add you to Keith's number. Now, if Francis DIRECTLY answers the same question in the debate, we can add him. I don't really care if Jack acknowledges it or not………he is mostly just a cheerleader for you and Keith and Francis here.
That's all he's really ever been since I joined HN.
He's an “afterthought”………so now I'm just waiting on Francis' response. If he agrees with you and Keith and I, then we can move to the next “Jesus is God” proof he has to offer, because simply being called “elohim” is not proof of anything regarding deity, as you point out with Satan.mike
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,16:36) lol, i will not answer questions exactly the way YOU want to.
I thought you were a pupil of Paul Cohen. I could have sworn that you told me before that the Son IS the Father.Yeah………..I remember asking about him praying to himself and other things.
But now you're not sure? That's okay. If you're not sure, it's cool. But if you're just refusing to admit it for fear of fallout, then that's a copout on your belief. And that makes me wonder how strong that belief is if you can't PROUDLY embrace and defend it.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,10:35) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,16:18) 1. And what is GOD/Theos according to you?
2. Why would “God the Supreme Being” (clarity needed) need anyone to create the World?
3. Ummm God? duh? Who happens to be Jesus.
Context says that God created the world, Yet God says Jesus did. shoulnt that tell you something?
Plus i would like to add that Chapter 3 holds the Son as not part of the House but as over it. In other words Jesus is not part of creation, but Lord/Master over it.
Hi D,1. GOD is YHVH, our Creator. “Elohim”, on the other hand, can refer to many different things. And that's why I railed so hard about “god” being an actual DEFINITION of the word “elohim”. Because to us, “God” means ONE thing basically. Elohim did NOT have that same singular meaning. But I have conceded that point for lack of scholarly support.
2. Oh, but you divert. I SUPPOSE that God wouln't NEED anyone to create. But because He CHOSE to create all things THROUGH His Son does not in any way imply Jesus performed the actual act of creating. Even “laying the foundations of the earth” is not the same a “creating the earth”.
So just work with what's there, D. Does 1:1 say GOD created the universe THROUGH His Son, or does it not?
3. As I said above, Jesus is NEVER in scripture said to have CREATED anything at all.
And I'm willing to discuss the “house” in chapter 3 and your misunderstaning of it at another time.
mike
1. Finally.
even though i still think you believe otherwise, you just lack proof.
you conceded for the lack of proof but not because you believe any different.
How can you prove to me that God means God in hebrew 1:1? What is God exactly? i mean there is 9 definitions according to the Net. so lets Define what GOD means? and how do you know?2. You asked me why would God of his God need to inherit anything? correct?
I asked you, Why would God need or depend on anyone to create?
So couldnt I also say “Because he chose too”
lol.
First of all you would have to prove that Jesus did not create the earth.
And according to who did Jesus Create?
Does the OT ever say that Jesus participated in the Creation?
Does the OT specficaly state that God created the heavens and earth- YEs
Soooooooooo put two and two togethor mike and its easy to understand that the NT writers were emphasising that Jesus is the Creator of all things.It does so what?
3. Prove that. Ill use collosians 1, hebrew 1, and John 1, as my support.
all life is sustained by him.You think that God is the achitech right? and that Jesus is the builder right? YES OR NO?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,10:41) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,16:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,10:19) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,15:47) I am not trying to prove that every mention of Elohim means Supreme being,
What Im trying to prove that the Definitino of Elohim entirely is defined by Context.
Very good.So……….can I add YOU to the list of those who agree that being called “elohim”, IN AND OF ITSELF, is not proof that one is God Almighty?
mike
Actually its you we have been trying to convince because we have been saying that from the beginning.You stated that Satan is the god of this age.
we claimed that Satan was never a god to begin with.
But see how you're “double talking”? If Satan is called “elohim”, which he is in the Hebrew text of the NT, then he is an elohim. And you are right that he is not God Almighty, but he is as much an elohim as Jesus or Deborah are.But I am glad to add you to Keith's number. Now, if Francis DIRECTLY answers the same question in the debate, we can add him. I don't really care if Jack acknowledges it or not………he is mostly just a cheerleader for you and Keith and Francis here.
That's all he's really ever been since I joined HN.
He's an “afterthought”………so now I'm just waiting on Francis' response. If he agrees with you and Keith and I, then we can move to the next “Jesus is God” proof he has to offer, because simply being called “elohim” is not proof of anything regarding deity, as you point out with Satan.mike
Of course not Mike.
He isnt called Elohim, he is called Theos, get your facts straight.
so its you who is double talking.
You have yet to prove how Jesus is only a title of God.
and deborah of course because the context proves otherwise.Dude, lol. We have been stating the SAME thing since the begining of this debate. Did you not get the memo?
I have repeated this so many times, how come you barely get this now?Goodnight, D. I'm tired. I'll hit any response tomorrow, okay?
peace and love to you and yours,
mikeps I like it better when we talk respecfully to each other like tonight.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,10:45) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,16:36) lol, i will not answer questions exactly the way YOU want to.
I thought you were a pupil of Paul Cohen. I could have sworn that you told me before that the Son IS the Father.Yeah………..I remember asking about him praying to himself and other things.
But now you're not sure? That's okay. If you're not sure, it's cool. But if you're just refusing to admit it for fear of fallout, then that's a copout on your belief. And that makes me wonder how strong that belief is if you can't PROUDLY embrace and defend it.
peace and love,
mike
Mike,
I am not Paul Cohen nor Victor pupil, though they are a strict loving people, they would not classify me as such, and neither would I.Actually im nobodies pupil =(
Again, listen to what im saying. What do you mean by Son and Father?
These are things that you MUST define, because Im not even sure what you believe anymore.We cant agree on what God means, though you conceded.
But that debate is worth it because we defined terms that are important.So what does the Father mean to you?
and what does the Son mean to you?
and what does God mean to you?Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,16:46)
1. Finally.
even though i still think you believe otherwise, you just lack proof.
you conceded for the lack of proof but not because you believe any different.
You are correct. I still believe that the word itself simply MEANS “leader”. But I have conceded the point and will continue the debate with “god” as a bonafide DEFINITION. The fact remains that being called “elohim” doesn't necessarily mean you are God Almighty, so the end result is the same: Just because Jesus is referred to as “elohim” does NOT mean he is God Almighty. And that's the point I intended to make……and I've clearly made it apparently – for you and Keith are in agreement.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,16:46)
How can you prove to me that God means God in hebrew 1:1?
Do you disagree that in 1:1, the elohim is God Almighty? If not, then why bring it up?Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,16:46)
i mean there is 9 definitions according to the Net. so lets Define what GOD means? and how do you know?
Haven't we just done this? Remember the “leader” vs. “god” debate? We know by CONTEXT, D. Are you just being difficult here? Was there someone else who in the past spoke to us through prophets, but more recently THROUGH His Son?Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,16:46)
2. You asked me why would God of his God need to inherit anything? correct?
I asked you, Why would God need or depend on anyone to create?
D, does scripture say that God NEEDED anyone in order to create? Does scripture say God DEPENDED ON anyone in order to create? If not, then you are diverting. The FACT IS that Jesus is NEVER said to have CREATED anything at all. So I don't have to prove he DIDN'T create, YOU would have to PROVE he did.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,16:46)
You think that God is the achitech right? and that Jesus is the builder right? YES OR NO?
I've never used that analogy…………..that was JA, I believe. I couldn't claim to know the hows and whys of it all. What I CAN claim is that scriptures says ONLY God created, and that HE ALONE did this THROUGH His Son, Jesus.mike
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,16:49)
Of course not Mike.
He isnt called Elohim, he is called Theos, get your facts straight.
so its you who is double talking.
No, get YOUR facts straight…………and read what I actually wrote before spouting off:Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,10:19)
If Satan is called “elohim”, which he is in the Hebrew text of the NT, then he is an elohim.The Greek word “theos” is translated BACK into Hebrew as “elohim” just as the word “elohim” is translated INTO Greek as “theos”.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,16:49)
You have yet to prove how Jesus is only a title of God.
and deborah of course because the context proves otherwise.
And once again, you're wrong. It is not ME who has to prove a negative, but YOU who has to prove the positive. I KNOW Jesus is not God Almighty because he is clearly the SON OF GOD ALMIGHTY. That in itself says he cannot be the being he is the Son of. So if YOU want to turn this very logical human understanding upside down, then YOU have to PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that the son of a being can actually be the same being he is the son of.But you are right that we know Deborah is a REPRESENTATIVE of God, and therefore NOT God Almighty Himself. And we know that Jesus WAS SENT by his God as a REPRESENTATIVE of Him also. So it is up to YOU to show how the CONTEXT of Hebrews 1:8 shows Jesus to actually BE God Almighty. And considering that 1:9 speaks of HIS God, you are fighting an up hill battle. For God Almighty does NOT have a God………….DOES HE?
Please answer this question DIRECTLY, D. I want to hear you say these words: “Yes Mike, God Almighty DOES have a God”……..or acknowledge that He DOESN'T.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,16:49)
Dude, lol. We have been stating the SAME thing since the begining of this debate. Did you not get the memo?
I have repeated this so many times, how come you barely get this now?
To my knowledge, you have not stated it CLEARLY until now. You NOW are CLEARLY acknowledging that being called “elohim” does NOT make you God Almighty. And that's good, because it's scriptural. But for you guys, it's bad, because you cannot use the fact that Jesus was called elohim as any kind of proof he is God Almighty.peace and love,
mikeQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,16:53) 1. So what does the Father mean to you?
2. and what does the Son mean to you?
3. and what does God mean to you?
1. One who has brought forth offspring.2. One who has been brought forth by his father.
3. The Almighty Creator of heaven and earth…………not to be confused with “elohim”, which does NOT necessarily mean that.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2011,23:51) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 22 2011,05:22) No because she is a mortal human being and not ” a god” at all. Context says she is “elohim” (little e) and if elohim can also mean Judge (which it does) then it should be translated as Judge. Now if the context said they were bowing down to her and officering sacrifices and worshipping her then she would be an “idol” or “false god”. Context dictates why the translators translated it a certain way. You can't seem to get that.
Really Keith? “Little e”? Was it originally written in Hebrew with a “little e”?
The word is ELOHIM. And it does NOT refer to either God Almighty OR a false god. It refers to a servant OF God Almighty.
Hmmm……..where else in scripture is a SERVANT OF GOD ALMIGHTY referred to as “elohim”?
Oooh, oooh, I know one! Hebrews 1:8! And there is absolutely NOTHING any of you can do to refute this. You can't possibly PROVE Jesus is God Almighty just because he's called “elohim”, or you would be in the same breath “proving” that Deborah was God Almighty.
“Little e”……………….you kill me!
peace and love,
mike
It’s simply Context Mike. Why do you keep denying this fact?You defy all the Biblical Hebrew and Greek experts that brought us the scriptures that we read. You also defy thousands of commentators and the Majority of the Forefathers and modern Orthodox Christianity, “and you are laughing at me“.
You teach Polytheism and that there are other true gods when the Bible says there is “ONLY ONE TRUE GOD” and none other. The Bible is not a Polytheistic Book!
I don't have to prove that because Jesus is called God that he is God Almighty, all I have to do is look at who he is in scripture and know that he is God Almighty!
You teach that Jesus is “a god” in the same sense that satan is “a god”.
The Joke is on you Mike because you cannot tell us in what way Jesus is not “God Almighty”, because you can't say he isn't called God, and you sure can't show us a scripture that says he is not God Almighty can you?
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,00:07) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 22 2011,05:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2011,19:31) Are there elohim mentioned in scripture who are neither “God Almighty” nor “false gods”?
MikeYes
Thanks Keith,But I already have your answer. You are the one who has HONESTLY admitted the only thing I ever set out to prove so far. I am hoping for D and Francis and Jack to follow your lead.
THEN…………you may continue to persuade me as to WHY when Jesus was referred to as “elohim”, it ABSOLUTELY AND POSITIVELY MUST HAVE MEANT HE WAS GOD ALMIGHTY………..one scriptural point at a time.
Hi MikeNo, since the word is also used to identify the “One True God” then you have to prove to us why Jesus is “Not” God Almighty when the scriptures call him God.
Since I am honest enough to give you the answer to your question then why don't you answer mine…
When Jesus is referred to as “elohim” or “theos” does it absolutely and positively mean he is “Not” God Almighty?
If so please explain how you know this.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,00:07) If I was debating with YOU, we would have moved on by now, because you alone are willing to admit what the others haven't so far been willing to acknowledge.
No you wouldn't Mike because I wouldn't let you get away without proving first why Jesus is not “God Almighty” in context when the scriptures call him God.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,00:07) My whole point thus far is this: If there are others called elohim who are neither God Almighty nor false gods, then JUST being called “elohim” is not proof of being God Almighty. You need more. And I'm willing to hear out and discuss all the “more” that you are willing to dispense.
Isn't that what Francis, D, and Jack and I have been saying but you will not let Francis discuss context as to why “God” in Hebrews 1:8 is God.Why do you keep beating this dead horse?
Everyone not just I are saying that just because Jesus is called God does not mean he is God.
We have been telling you all along it is all about context yet you keep saying that God (elohim or theos) only means ruler, or leader which defies the definition given for them depending on its context.
Go ahead Mike in every case where YHWH is called “elohiim or god” insert the word leader and see if it works and defines YHVH from all others. It won't and you know it.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,00:07) But it frustrates me that you are so far the only one to acknowledge this clear and scriptural truth. And if further frustrates me because I (think: per Francis) KNOW that the others are being obstinate and difficult because they simply don't want to give up this “big gun” they think they have.
What frustrates you is that the cream of Greek Scholarship is against you and you have no formal credentials or even any credible source for your views to oppose them Mike.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,00:07) Keith, I didn't quote only part of your post to be deceitful. It's just that the rest of your reasons can be addressed after we all are willing to acknowledge the CLEAR and SCRIPTURAL FACT that it will take more than JUST being called by the title “elohim” to PROVE Jesus is God Almighty. That, IN AND OF ITSELF, proves absolutely NOTHING about the deity of Jesus.
I have acknowledged this now please convince us why Jesus being called God absolutely means he is “Not” God Almighty?Blessings WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,00:41) And you are right that he is not God Almighty, but he is as much an elohim as Jesus or Deborah are.
MikeYou have got to be kidding.
So then if being called “elohim” means they are just as much “elohim” as the other then that means they are “elohim” as much as YHVH is “elohim”?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2011,03:31)
The Joke is on you Mike because you cannot tell us in what way Jesus is not “God Almighty”, because you can't say he isn't called God, and you sure can't show us a scripture that says he is not God Almighty can you?
Hi Keith,Are you saying you can't refute what I said:
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2011,23:51) The word is ELOHIM. And it does NOT refer to either God Almighty OR a false god. It refers to a servant OF God Almighty. Hmmm……..where else in scripture is a SERVANT OF GOD ALMIGHTY referred to as “elohim”?
Oooh, oooh, I know one! Hebrews 1:8!
Can you show me the error in what I said? Of course not. That's why instead of dealing with what I said, you diverted to “I know Jesus is God, so there!” How precious. Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2011,03:31)
The Joke is on you Mike because you cannot tell us in what way Jesus is not “God Almighty”, because you can't say he isn't called God, and you sure can't show us a scripture that says he is not God Almighty can you?
Wow, that is sooooooooo weak. I “can't show that Deborah isn't called God” either…………..does that mean SHE'S God Almighty just because there isn't a specific scripture that says, “Deborah is NOT God Almighty”?Keith, like I've told Francis and Dennison, I have nothing to prove. The minute the scripture says Jesus is the “SON of God”, human common sense and logic immediately says he cannot possibly be the Being he is the Son OF. And although there are thousands of other things I could point to, why? That first one is all I need to PROVE Jesus is not God Almighty.
So unless you can show where someone else's son has been proved to be the same being as his father……..or you can show other scriptures that SPECIFICALLY teach us that Jesus is God Almighty Himself, you have no legs to stand on.
But wait…………I thought that's what we were doing here. So let's wait for Francis' next “proof scripture” that Jesus is God Almighty, and you can jump in with all your support of it, okay?
Because for now, I got what I wanted. You have admitted that being called “elohim” is not proof in and of itself. And that's the first thing I set out to gain agreement on. Jack has just agreed to it in another thread. So now you, SF, Jack and I are all on the same page and believing truth so far…………I'm just waiting on Francis to join us.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2011,04:32)
No, since the word is also used to identify the “One True God” then you have to prove to us why Jesus is “Not” God Almighty when the scriptures call him God.
Already answered. The son of someone can't possibly be the one he is the son of…………unless you have another supporting instance of this happening?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2011,04:32)
Since I am honest enough to give you the answer to your question then why don't you answer mine…When Jesus is referred to as “elohim” or “theos” does it absolutely and positively mean he is “Not” God Almighty?
I believe I said: “NO! No, no, no” in an another post 4 days ago. Isn't that clear enough of an answer? So, being called “elohim” is NOT proof in and of itself that one is either God Almighty or that that one is NOT God Almighty.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2011,04:32)
No you wouldn't Mike because I wouldn't let you get away without proving first why Jesus is not “God Almighty” in context when the scriptures call him God.
Yes Keith………..THAT'S what we'd be “moving on” to.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2011,04:32)
Isn't that what Francis, D, and Jack and I have been saying but you will not let Francis discuss context as to why “God” in Hebrews 1:8 is God.Why do you keep beating this dead horse?
If Francis has DIRECTLY agree to this fact, then I missed it. Could you show me where he DIRECTLY agreed? If he has, then we WILL be moving on to the context of WHY that particular use of “elohim” means “God Almighty” or not.But if you'll recall, his original point with Hebrews 1:8 (as far as I understood it: per Francis), was that if God called Jesus “God”, then he is God.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2011,04:32)
What frustrates you is that the cream of Greek Scholarship is against you and you have no formal credentials or even any credible source for your views to oppose them Mike.
Let me demonstrate RIGHT NOW how this usually works with us.Keith, are the scriptures a case of majority rules? Does a majority of trinitarian scholars equal the absolute, undeniable truth of any matter?
Now what I would like is for you to say, “No Mike, I guess a majority does NOT equal TRUTH, so I won't bring that up any more.” Let's see how many circles I'll have to run and how many scriptures and scholarly comments I'll have to post before you admit this simple truth. Then, after all that, you can say, “That's what we've been saying all along!”
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2011,04:32)
I have acknowledged this now please convince us why Jesus being called God absolutely means he is “Not” God Almighty?
Absolutely Keith. I'm just waiting for Francis to agree, or for you to quote his words where he did agree already.Don't forget, the actual debate is with Francis. I don't want to jump ahead of him or have two simultaneous debates on the same subject.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,13:56) Because for now, I got what I wanted. You have admitted that being called “elohim” is not proof in and of itself.
MikeI will address your other points later but for now let it be know to all that you can never claim that you always answer our questions and we never answer yours.
Why did you avoid my question and not answer again Mike?
When Jesus is referred to as “elohim” or “theos” does it absolutely and positively mean he is “Not” God Almighty?
If so please explain how you know this.
OK I didn't see your post above so good for you Mike.
So now you can't say that when the scriptures refer to Jesus as God that he abslolutely is not God Almighty!
So now you have to prove how he isn't God Almighty since he is the “Supreme Ruler” having all authority and power of an infinite God and shares all the attributes and characteristics of God Almigthy! How are you going to do that Mike?
WJ
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