Mikeboll64 vs francis

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:34)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:31) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:02) The NET notes clearly say that when referring to the “One True God” it is a name. Yes Keith.  And Wikipedia, Encyclopoedia Britannica and many other sources agree with that. But you and I know different, don't we?   We know that God is a title and God has a name, right?   mike No I don't know different Mike. God has many names! WJ

And is “King” one of His NAMES? Does the definition of the Hebrew word “melek” now have “Supernatural Supreme Being Who Created the Universe” as one of ITS definitions, too?

Like I said, too much man.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:35)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,16:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,06:06) yet Jesus is everything that the Father is Really?  Is the Father begotten by someone? Mike No because the Father didn't come in the flesh. But the Word that was with God and was God did! If Jesus was in very nature God like the Father then he is like the Father in every way. WJ Yet your very own church fathers say Jesus was begotten before the ages.  Hmmmmm………… Yea which means before time and from eterrnity!  HMMM WJ

And it also means Jesus WAS begotten while his God was NOT.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:42)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,16:45) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,04:32) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2011,20:39) Really guys?  Still nothing?  I'll post it a THIRD time.   Jack, prove that you're not running and hiding right now.  You seem to have plenty of time for ridicules………how about for one little answer? Scripture says our only one true God is THE FATHER.  How do you “include” the Son into this very specific statement? Jack, would you try to answer it?  Keith and SF, I would also be interested in your HONEST, SCRIPTURAL, and TO THE POINT answers. peace and love to all of you, mike Mike There you go again. Asking me the same question I have already answered here… Oh, you mean your answer REALLY IS, “Since Jesus IS God, then it MUST include him”?    I thought that was a joke or something…………not a real answer.   Hi Mike You see what I mean? Do you see your attitude towards all those that you debate. Everyones answer is a joke to you and not a real answer. Ha Ha. Why waste our time then? Is it possibe that Mike could ever be wrong? Ha, well Mike you have yourself and your self proclaimed interpretation of scriptures. Most of us understand that we don't have all the answers since we can't read Hebrew, Greek or Latin so we have to trust God first and then listen by the Spirit to the God given men who were the forerunners of our faith who brings us the translations and the respective meaning of Hebrew and Greek words as well as their expert commentary. So Mikebol, the bottom line is that I will trust their commentary and their faith and my own heart and faith before I trust your laymen view. Blessings Keith Are you flippin' KIDDING ME?!?  Are you really going to stay with that answer?       Newsflash to all non-trinitarians: It's all been explained to us now.  We can rest easy.  Keith has explained to us that because Jesus IS God, Jesus is God!     You are too much, Keith! FRANCIS, NOW DO YOU SEE WHAT I MEANT BEFORE? mike

Mike

I have given you plenty of evidence and now you are being rediculous.

If you don't take our words or the experts seriously then what else is there to say. You have all the answers Mike. You know better than anyone else.

Everyone else is wrong and Mikeboll is right.

HA HA

WJ

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:31)

Mike Most of us understand that we don't have all the answers since we can't read Hebrew, Greek or Latin… Blessings Keith

Hi WJ,

What does not being able to read Latin have to do with us understanding “The Bible”?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:47)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,16:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,06:06) yet Jesus is everything that the Father is Really?  Is the Father begotten by someone? Mike No because the Father didn't come in the flesh. But the Word that was with God and was God did! If Jesus was in very nature God like the Father then he is like the Father in every way. WJ Yet your very own church fathers say Jesus was begotten before the ages.  Hmmmmm………… Yea which means before time and from eterrnity!  HMMM WJ And it also means Jesus WAS begotten while his God was NOT.

Straw man.

And you being a Son of your Father means you are not your Father but you are still fully human like your Father.

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 14 2011,17:48)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:31) Mike Most of us understand that we don't have all the answers since we can't read Hebrew, Greek or Latin… Blessings Keith Hi WJ, What does not being able to read Latin have to do with us understanding “The Bible”? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Some manuscripts were written in Latin. You know this don't you?

WJ

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:49)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 14 2011,17:48) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:31) Mike Most of us understand that we don't have all the answers since we can't read Hebrew, Greek or Latin… Blessings Keith Hi WJ, What does not being able to read Latin have to do with us understanding “The Bible”? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Some manuscripts were written in Latin. You know this don't you? WJ

Hi WJ,

Nothing in “The Bible” was originally written in Latin; didn't you know that?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:46)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:31) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:02) The NET notes clearly say that when referring to the “One True God” it is a name. Yes Keith.  And Wikipedia, Encyclopoedia Britannica and many other sources agree with that. But you and I know different, don't we?   We know that God is a title and God has a name, right?   mike No I don't know different Mike. God has many names! WJ And is “King” one of His NAMES?  Does the definition of the Hebrew word “melek” now have “Supernatural Supreme Being Who Created the Universe” as one of ITS definitions, too?   Like I said, too much man.   mike

Context Mike.

WJ

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:37)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:27) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 15 2011,08:15) WJ said to Mike: Quote YHVH said there is no God formed before him or after him, and he has not contradicted himself. The scripture concurs with WJ: TO ALL: Mikeboll has dogmatically claimed that Jesus is a god who “came into being” after YHWH. Keith has corrected Mike about this many times but Mike has given Keith a deaf ear. Isaiah 43:10 explicitly says that before and after YHWH there was no God “formed.” The LXX uses the Greek “ginomai” for “formed.” Note the word in bold in the Septuagint translation of Isaiah 43:10 below. It is the Greek “ginomai” which means “to come into being.” 43:10 γενεσθε μοι μαρτυρες καγω μαρτυς λεγει κυριος ο θεος και ο παις ον εξελεξαμην ινα γνωτε και πιστευσητε και συνητε οτι εγω ειμι εμπροσθεν μου ουκ εγενετο αλλος θεος και μετ' εμε ουκ εσται No god came into being before or after YHWH. Therefore, Jesus did not come into being but was always “with God” (John 1:1). Mike's only option is to deny that Jesus is a god at all. This would be a step up for him. For denying that Jesus is a god at all is better than confessing Him as a god in the “same sense” as satan. https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….=244799 the Roo But that's not REALLY what Isaiah 43:10 says, is it Jack?   Isaiah 43:10 NET © You are my witnesses,” says the Lord, “my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may consider and believe in me, and understand that I am he. No god was formed before me, and none will outlive me. It would be illogical and untrue for God to say there would be no “els” formed after Him when scripture is full of “els” who were formed after him, right?  How else can He be the “El of els” if there are no other els to be the El of?   mike Because they are false “els” or so-called “els” because there is “Only One True El”.   WJ

Prove it. Prove that Deborah was a “false god”.

And Paul never even says “so-called gods”. He says there are many WHO ARE CALLED GODS.

1 Corinthians 8:5 (King James Version)

5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

There is no implication of “so-called” anywhere in the Greek text. Paul simply says that while there ARE many gods and lords, for us there is only one of each.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 14 2011,17:52)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:49) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 14 2011,17:48) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:31) Mike Most of us understand that we don't have all the answers since we can't read Hebrew, Greek or Latin… Blessings Keith Hi WJ, What does not being able to read Latin have to do with us understanding “The Bible”? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Some manuscripts were written in Latin. You know this don't you? WJ Hi WJ, Nothing in “The Bible” was originally written in Latin; didn't you know that? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

ED

We don't have the “Original Manuscripts” didn't you know that?

WJ

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:41)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:02) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,07:45) Hi Mike Then when Moses said “In the beginning 'elohiym (God) created the heavens and the earth”, Moses wasn’t speaking of the “supernatural or supreme being who created the universe?  What are you talking about? Of course Moses was speaking of the “supernatural or supreme being who created the universe”.  But the word “elohim” does not MEAN “the supernatural or supreme being who created the universe”, does it? Hi Mike There you have it. Moses identified God the creator of all things with the word “Elohim”. WJ What a very petty thing to do, Keith.  You cut the context right out of my post and pulled a Jack.  How disappointing.   Now, why don't you answer the REST of the post? mike Mike The same reason you don't answer mine! WJ

Have I stumped you Keith? Can you not argue against the solid logic I posted?

This is what every single “Jesus is God proof” will eventually come down to. You just never stick around long enough to see them through to the end.

I asked you last week, and I'll ask you again. Pick your BEST “Jesus is God” proof, and let's discuss it. Only one until we've followed it through to the end. Go ahead………….I DARE YOU.

Is that what you call “beating my chest”?

AGAIN FRANCIS, ARE YOU SEEING HOW HE WILL NOT STAND AND DEFEND HIS POINT AGAINST MY SOLID LOGIC?

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:47)

Everyone else is wrong and Mikeboll is right.

FINALLY!  Well it sure took you long enough to realize that!  

Keith, I follow SCRIPTURES.  And I ONLY follow the scholars IF what they say FOLLOWS THE SCRIPTURES.

And when I'm shown to be mistaken, like just recently happened in the “bodies” thread, I adjust my beliefs to fit AROUND THE SCRIPTURES.  

So, by doing this, naturally I'm going to “be right”.  Try it sometime, and you can “be right” too.  

mike

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:52)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:27) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 15 2011,08:15) WJ said to Mike: Quote YHVH said there is no God formed before him or after him, and he has not contradicted himself. The scripture concurs with WJ: TO ALL: Mikeboll has dogmatically claimed that Jesus is a god who “came into being” after YHWH. Keith has corrected Mike about this many times but Mike has given Keith a deaf ear. Isaiah 43:10 explicitly says that before and after YHWH there was no God “formed.” The LXX uses the Greek “ginomai” for “formed.” Note the word in bold in the Septuagint translation of Isaiah 43:10 below. It is the Greek “ginomai” which means “to come into being.” 43:10 γενεσθε μοι μαρτυρες καγω μαρτυς λεγει κυριος ο θεος και ο παις ον εξελεξαμην ινα γνωτε και πιστευσητε και συνητε οτι εγω ειμι εμπροσθεν μου ουκ εγενετο αλλος θεος και μετ' εμε ουκ εσται No god came into being before or after YHWH. Therefore, Jesus did not come into being but was always “with God” (John 1:1). Mike's only option is to deny that Jesus is a god at all. This would be a step up for him. For denying that Jesus is a god at all is better than confessing Him as a god in the “same sense” as satan. https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….=244799 the Roo But that's not REALLY what Isaiah 43:10 says, is it Jack?   Isaiah 43:10 NET © You are my witnesses,” says the Lord, “my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may consider and believe in me, and understand that I am he. No god was formed before me, and none will outlive me. It would be illogical and untrue for God to say there would be no “els” formed after Him when scripture is full of “els” who were formed after him, right?  How else can He be the “El of els” if there are no other els to be the El of?   mike Because they are false “els” or so-called “els” because there is “Only One True El”.   WJ Prove it.  Prove that Deborah was a “false god”. And Paul never even says “so-called gods”.  He says there are many WHO ARE CALLED GODS. 1 Corinthians 8:5 (King James Version) 5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) There is no implication of “so-called” anywhere in the Greek text.  Paul simply says that while there ARE many gods and lords, for us there is only one of each.

Mike

In context Paul said there “is no god but one” the gods he mentioned are so-called gods and lords to or made by unregenerate men who are Polythiest like the Romans. Christians in the NT called no one their Lord or God but God.

Chew on these Mike and see if they fit into you Poytheistic views…

“Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, the Lord, am THE MAKER OF ALL THINGS, stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, and spreading out the earth ALL ALONE.” Is 44:24 KJV

This is what Jehovah has said, your Repurchaser and the Former of you from the belly: “I, Jehovah, am doing everything, “stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF”, laying out the earth. “Who was with me? Isa 44:24 NWT

Thus saith the Lord that redeems thee, and who formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that performs all things: I stretched out the HEAVEN ALONE, and established the earth. Isa 44:24 Lexicon

The Apostles and the Translators also considered that Jehovah said there is “no God” beside him…  

I am the LORD, and “THERE IS NONE ELSE, THERE IS NO GOD BESIDE ME“: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that “THERE IS NONE BESIDE ME“. I am the LORD, and “THERE IS NONE ELSE“. Isa 45:5, 6  

I am Jehovah, and “THERE IS NO ONE ELSE”. With the exception of me “THERE IS NO GOD. I shall closely gird you, although you have not known me, 6 in order that people may know from the rising of the sun and from its setting that “THERE IS NONE BESIDES ME. I am Jehovah, and “THERE IS NO ONE ELSE”. Isa 45: 5, 6

5 For I am the Lord God, and “there is NO OTHER GOD BESIDE ME”; I strengthened thee, and thou hast not known me. 6 That they that come from the east and they that come from the west may know that “THERE IS NO GOD BUT ME”. I am the Lord God, and “THERE IS NONE BESIDE ME”.  Isa 45:5, 6 LXX

WJ

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:49)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,16:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,06:06) yet Jesus is everything that the Father is Really?  Is the Father begotten by someone? Mike No because the Father didn't come in the flesh. But the Word that was with God and was God did! If Jesus was in very nature God like the Father then he is like the Father in every way. WJ Yet your very own church fathers say Jesus was begotten before the ages.  Hmmmmm………… Yea which means before time and from eterrnity!  HMMM WJ And it also means Jesus WAS begotten while his God was NOT. Straw man. And you being a Son of your Father means you are not your Father but you are still fully human like your Father. WJ

It also means I'm not the same BEING as my father.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 15 2011,09:52)

Hi WJ, Nothing in “The Bible” was originally written in Latin; didn't you know that?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:57)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:41) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:02) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,07:45) Hi Mike Then when Moses said “In the beginning 'elohiym (God) created the heavens and the earth”, Moses wasn’t speaking of the “supernatural or supreme being who created the universe?  What are you talking about? Of course Moses was speaking of the “supernatural or supreme being who created the universe”.  But the word “elohim” does not MEAN “the supernatural or supreme being who created the universe”, does it? Hi Mike There you have it. Moses identified God the creator of all things with the word “Elohim”. WJ What a very petty thing to do, Keith.  You cut the context right out of my post and pulled a Jack.  How disappointing.   Now, why don't you answer the REST of the post? mike Mike The same reason you don't answer mine! WJ Have I stumped you Keith?    Can you not argue against the solid logic I posted?   This is what every single “Jesus is God proof” will eventually come down to.  You just never stick around long enough to see them through to the end. I asked you last week, and I'll ask you again.  Pick your BEST “Jesus is God” proof, and let's discuss it.  Only one until we've followed it through to the end.  Go ahead………….I DARE YOU.   Is that what you call “beating my chest”?   AGAIN FRANCIS, ARE YOU SEEING HOW HE WILL NOT STAND AND DEFEND HIS POINT AGAINST MY SOLID LOGIC? mike

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:57)

Have I stumped you Keith?    Can you not argue against the solid logic I posted?

Ha Ha Mike

Shall I say the same thing about you everytime you skip over my points and questions and demand answers to yours?

Francis I noticed is starting to get a taste of your diversions.

WJ

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:53)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 14 2011,17:52) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:49) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 14 2011,17:48) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:31) Mike Most of us understand that we don't have all the answers since we can't read Hebrew, Greek or Latin… Blessings Keith Hi WJ, What does not being able to read Latin have to do with us understanding “The Bible”? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Some manuscripts were written in Latin. You know this don't you? WJ Hi WJ, Nothing in “The Bible” was originally written in Latin; didn't you know that? God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org ED We don't have the “Original Manuscripts” didn't you know that? WJ

Hi WJ,

We don't have any of the original Scriptures, but what does that
have to do with no Scripture originally written in Latin?
Do you suspect any books were, if so which?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:52)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:46) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:31) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:02) The NET notes clearly say that when referring to the “One True God” it is a name. Yes Keith.  And Wikipedia, Encyclopoedia Britannica and many other sources agree with that. But you and I know different, don't we?   We know that God is a title and God has a name, right?   mike No I don't know different Mike. God has many names! WJ And is “King” one of His NAMES?  Does the definition of the Hebrew word “melek” now have “Supernatural Supreme Being Who Created the Universe” as one of ITS definitions, too?   Like I said, too much man.   mike Context Mike. WJ

Please answer the question, Keith. If “elohim” now has the definition of “God Almighty” just because the word is used in refference to Him, then “melek” must have that same definition too, right?

Or could it be that “elohim” always has and always will simply mean “leader” and “melek” will always mean “king” – and neither of them have “Supernatural Supreme Being” as one of their definitions?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,18:02)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,17:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,09:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,16:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 15 2011,06:06) yet Jesus is everything that the Father is Really?  Is the Father begotten by someone? Mike No because the Father didn't come in the flesh. But the Word that was with God and was God did! If Jesus was in very nature God like the Father then he is like the Father in every way. WJ Yet your very own church fathers say Jesus was begotten before the ages.  Hmmmmm………… Yea which means before time and from eterrnity!  HMMM WJ And it also means Jesus WAS begotten while his God was NOT. Straw man. And you being a Son of your Father means you are not your Father but you are still fully human like your Father. WJ It also means I'm not the same BEING as my father.

No but it means you are of the same nature, flesh.

The essence of God is Spirit, the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit share that same essence.

There is only One Spirit or essence that makes God, God.

WJ

[Kangaroo Jack Jr.]

WJ posted:

Quote

Here are the notes on why they translated it that way… 24tn Or possibly, “Your throne is God forever and ever.” This translation is quite doubtful, however, since (1) in the context the Son is being contrasted to the angels and is presented as far better than they. The imagery of God being the Son’s throne would seem to be of God being his authority. If so, in what sense could this not be said of the angels? In what sense is the Son thus contrasted with the angels? (2) The μέν…δέ (men…de) construction that connects v. 7 with v. 8 clearly lays out this contrast: “On the one hand, he says of the angels…on the other hand, he says of the Son.” Thus, although it is grammatically possible that θεός (qeos) in v. 8 should be taken as a predicate nominative, the context and the correlative conjunctions are decidedly against it. Hebrews 1:8 is thus a strong affirmation of the deity of Christ. Source Since Mike insist on using the NET notes then will he accept what the NET has to say about Heb 1:8?

Keith,

As you know I am not a fan of the NET Bible. But they're right on regarding Hebrews 1:8.

I posted this note at PV.

Thanks,

Jack

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