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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2011,03:31) Then why have it moved? Your excuse about JA seems to be a little weak to me.
Keith, what is your problem? Are people having a hard time finding this discussion?
Do you ever even read the section a thread is in………I don't. I read the title and decide to post or not. What difference does it make what thread it's in?Listen, the debates section is for people who have agreed to do a one on one debate and not be bothered by other posters. This is NOT a one on one discussion, so it should not have been in the debates with the same head title as my real debate with Francis. It was confusing, people were posting in my private debate, and I asked t8 to move it.
Keith, I started to respond to your other points, one at a time. But then I thought, “Why bother”, and deleted my response. I'll tell you what. YOU pick any one of the “Jesus is God” points you made in your post to me, and I'll happily and scripturally show you how it doesn't say “Jesus is God” at all.
For example: YES, I'm as much a human as my father, but I'm not the same being as my father. So yes, Jesus is as much a spirit being as his Father, but is not the same being as his Father.
Another one: You say “Jesus is one with the Father”. So what? We hope to be one with Him too……..does that mean WE will be part of a “Godhead”?
Refuting your individual points is child's play, Keith. Which is why you always must post many points in one post. You think volume will make up for lack of solidity. It doesn't.
But if you ever get to the point that you want to deal with the fact that THE FATHER is the only true God, let me know. Your claim that “Jesus is included in that statement” is sheer nonsense and unscriptural.
And quit crying about what section your thread is in……….people seem to be having no problem finding it.
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2011,04:11) Yes and they are translated accordingly. If the context dictates they are judges or a man, or ‘a god” then it is translated as such. So what is your point Mike, the translators didn’t translate it God but judge because they were not gods at all?
Thank you Keith!
My point is that the word “elohim” simply means “judges” or “rulers”. Men were called by this same word “elohim” as YHVH was. Don't you understand this?
These scriptures CLEARLY show that even men have been called by the TITLE of “elohim”. And it didn't mean they were “false elohims”, did it? It didn't mean they were “imposter elohims”, did it?Do you now understand that “only true God” simply means that of all the other “elohims”, YHVH is the only REAL Judge at all, because He is Judge over and above all the other ones.
Face it Keith, you can either accept this simple scriptural truth, or you can believe that Jesus is not a “god” at all. Because scripture ONLY allows for one or the other. Scripture does NOT allow for “Jesus was included in this thing that was SPECIFICALLY said about THE FATHER ONLY”.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 11 2011,17:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2011,03:31) No Mike, we are not saying others are not given the title “god” in scriptures. What we are saying is they are so-called gods and not gods at all because there is “Only One True God” and YHWH himself says there are no other gods beside him!
Hi Keith,Then I guess you better list Jesus along with all the other “so- called gods” and “not gods at all”, because the only true God is said to be the Father. What part of this don't you get?
The Father, the Father, the Father. That is who Paul says our ONE God is, and that is who Jesus says is “the only true God”.
How in the world do you come up with “Jesus is INCLUDED in this”?
Is Jesus the Father? Well then, he's not included in the statement about “the ONLY true God”, is he?peace and love,
mike
Hi MikeYou see I don't have to throw scriptures away to make all the scriptures fit my theology like you have to change the clear meaning of scriptures to fit yours, like the scriptures that says there is “Only One True God”. You have to change the meaning or dismisss the scriptures that say Jesus is “God”, like John 1:1. You have to practically throw away church history and the teachings of the early Fathers.
Is Jesus ruling supreme, with all authority and power, yes or no?
Is Jesus equal to the Father in nature, Yes or no?
Is Jesus the Word that was with God and was/is God, yes or no?
Does all things consist by Jesus, yes or no?
Is Jesus seated at the right hand of the Father, not beneath him nor above him, yes or no?
Is all things in Jesus hands including all judgment, yes or no?
Is Jesus God and Savour over his people that he redeemned for himself, yes or no?
Is Jesus “a True God”, yes or no?
Is Jesus One God, One Spirit or essence with the Father, yes or no?
It is written and so let it be! You need to reconcile all scriptures and stop changing their meaning to fit your theology.
The Bible doesn't teach Polytheism or Arianism.
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2011,07:35) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 11 2011,15:25) Mike said: Quote I track you guys down all the time, corner you, and watch as YOU run and hide!
Crapola! I am just trying to get away from this being an obsession and that's all.jack
JackThis guy truly is so full of himself! I Love you Mike but your statement is full of hoodoo!
Have you not realized that you have to have the last word?
Does that come from your childhood or something?
Like it has been said, just because we give you the last word it is not a sign of weakness but in fact quite the opposite!
Blessings Keith
Again with the ad hominems. Hmmmmmm………….I wonder why?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 11 2011,18:01) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2011,04:11) Yes and they are translated accordingly. If the context dictates they are judges or a man, or ‘a god” then it is translated as such. So what is your point Mike, the translators didn’t translate it God but judge because they were not gods at all?
Thank you Keith!My point is that the word “elohim” simply means “judges” or “rulers”. Men were called by this same word “elohim” as YHVH was. Don't you understand this?
These scriptures CLEARLY show that even men have been called by the TITLE of “elohim”. And it didn't mean they were “false elohims”, did it? It didn't mean they were “imposter elohims”, did it?Do you now understand that “only true God” simply means that of all the other “elohims”, YHVH is the only REAL Judge at all, because He is Judge over and above all the other ones.
Face it Keith, you can either accept this simple scriptural truth, or you can believe that Jesus is not a “god” at all. Because scripture ONLY allows for one or the other. Scripture does NOT allow for “Jesus was included in this thing that was SPECIFICALLY said about THE FATHER ONLY”.
peace and love,
mike
MikeDid any of those Judges sit at the right hand of the Father? Were any of those judges there in eternity with the Father and created all things with their hands? Did any of those Judges have all authority and power and judgment?
No, so they were so-called gods and not gods at all. You do get this don't you Mike?
The Bible doesn't teach Polytheism Mike!
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 11 2011,18:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2011,07:35) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 11 2011,15:25) Mike said: Quote I track you guys down all the time, corner you, and watch as YOU run and hide!
Crapola! I am just trying to get away from this being an obsession and that's all.jack
JackThis guy truly is so full of himself! I Love you Mike but your statement is full of hoodoo!
Have you not realized that you have to have the last word?
Does that come from your childhood or something?
Like it has been said, just because we give you the last word it is not a sign of weakness but in fact quite the opposite!
Blessings Keith
Again with the ad hominems. Hmmmmmm………….I wonder why?
MikeYou started it. Who said that we run and hide? Who is beating his chest over us?
Yea I wonder why you do this? Could it be that you are to proud to admit that you might be wrong sometimes on this forum?
WJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 12 2011,09:02) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 12 2011,08:43) Princess,
I wonder whats worse,
To be upfront about it,or the insults that are written in between in the lines,
in the dark corners,
in silence, and behind our backs.
with trickeray and false implications.
SF,Mike says I am running and hiding after I PMed him telling him that I have another home now and that I won't be spending that much time here. Yet he says that I “run and hide” after I told him that I would not be replying much. He is acting childish and insecure.
KJ Jr.
Jack (I meant), you ran and hid from me long before that! Look at how our debates have all ended………with me patiently waiting for an answer to a very valid and simple question.Jack, prove that you're not running and hiding right now. You seem to have plenty of time for ridicules………how about for one little answer?
Scripture says our only one true God is THE FATHER. How do you “include” the Son into this very specific statement?
peace and love to you,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2011,10:06) Mike Did any of those Judges sit at the right hand of the Father? Were any of those judges there in eternity with the Father and created all things with their hands? Did any of those Judges have all authority and power and judgment?
Keith,WERE THEY REAL OR NOT?
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2011,03:31) Then why have it moved? Your excuse about JA seems to be a little weak to me. Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 11 2011,17:51) Keith, what is your problem? Are people having a hard time finding this discussion? Do you ever even read the section a thread is in………I don't. I read the title and decide to post or not. What difference does it make what thread it's in?
Exactly Mike, what difference does it make? So why did you move it?Whats wrong with in the future when the debate is over that others can see this thread next to the original debate? Why do you have such a problem with this?
WJ
Quote (princess @ Jan. 12 2011,08:05) really jr,
are the visuals necessary
perhaps T8 should give you a child's corner of some sort, like jr's corner of pictures
then you could make fun of people there
any truth seeker would not visit though
for it is not the true message that should be portrayed
but you and wj are the exclusion to the rule yes?
you have been granted permission, by your lord to mimic, mock others.what a god you have.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2011,10:12) Exactly Mike, what difference does it make? So why did you move it?
People were accidentally posting on the real debate thread, Keith.That's enough of a reason and the last answer you will get on the subject.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 11 2011,18:08) Keith, you ran and hid from me long before that! Look at how our debates have all ended………with me patiently waiting for an answer to a very valid and simple question.
LOL I have been on this sight a lot longer than you and have met more challenging people than you so your statement is never the case Mike.I got tired of answering the same question over and over even If when I answered it a thousand times you refused to accept my answer as valid so you would just ask it another way. Finally I let you have the last word and move on. You never ever in any debate that I have seen let anyone have the last word Mike.
Why is that you have to have the last word and then beat your chest like you are a winner over us?
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 11 2011,18:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2011,10:06) Mike Did any of those Judges sit at the right hand of the Father? Were any of those judges there in eternity with the Father and created all things with their hands? Did any of those Judges have all authority and power and judgment?
Keith,WERE THEY REAL OR NOT?
mike
Hi MikeThey were real human beings who were judges and not gods Mike!
WJ
Quote (princess @ Jan. 11 2011,16:05) really jr,
are the visuals necessary
perhaps T8 should give you a child's corner of some sort, like jr's corner of pictures
then you could make fun of people there
any truth seeker would not visit though
for it is not the true message that should be portrayed
but you and wj are the exclusion to the rule yes?
you have been granted permission, by your lord to mimic, mock others.what a god you have.
PrincessYou take things to seriously. Mike started this by his beating of the chest by saying we ran from him.
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 11 2011,18:16) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 12 2011,10:12) Exactly Mike, what difference does it make? So why did you move it?
People were accidentally posting on the real debate thread, Keith.That's enough of a reason and the last answer you will get on the subject.
MikeYea, well how would you like it if I asked t8 to move a thread that you created to address a certain debate or subject?
People were posting in the thread before I created the thread and that was one of the reasons I created it.
WJ
Keith said to Mikeboll:
Quote Hi Mike You see I don't have to throw scriptures away to make all the scriptures fit my theology like you have to change the clear meaning of scriptures to fit yours, like the scriptures that says there is “Only One True God”. You have to change the meaning or dismisss the scriptures that say Jesus is “God”, like John 1:1. You have to practically throw away church history and the teachings of the early Fathers.
Is Jesus ruling supreme, with all authority and power yes or no?
Is Jesus equal to the Father in nature, Yes or no?
Is Jesus the Word that was with God and was/is God, yes or no?
Does all things consist by Jesus, yes or no?
Is Jesus seated at the right hand of the Father, not beneath him nor above him, yes or no?
Is all things in Jesus hands including all judgment, yes or no?
Is Jesus God and Savour over his people that he redeemned for himself, yes or no?
Is Jesus “a True God”, yes or no?
Jesus is One God, One Spirit or essence with the Father?
It is written and so let it be! You need to reconcile all scriptures and stop changing their meaning to fit your theology.
The Bible doesn't teach Polytheism or Arianism.
Blessings WJ
Keith,
Don't forget this one: Does the Son reveal the Father to whomsoever HE WILLS yes or no (Matthew 11:27)?
Mike claims that he knows the Father. Yet he could not know the Father unless the Son chose to reveal His Father to Mike by His own sovereign choice. Jesus Christ is “our only Sovereign Ruler (despotes) and Lord” (Jude 4).
By Mike's own definition the name “God” in reference to the Father means “SUPREME RULER.” And we know the word “Despotes” in reference to Jesus means “SOVEREIGN RULER.”
2 + 2 = 4
Jack
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 11 2011,17:51) Keith, I started to respond to your other points, one at a time. But then I thought, “Why bother”, and deleted my response. I'll tell you what. YOU pick any one of the “Jesus is God” points you made in your post to me, and I'll happily and scripturally show you how it doesn't say “Jesus is God” at all.
MikeYou can't even get past John 1:1. Most all the experts and Forefathers and Translators and Translations (except the NWT) are against you.
WJ
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