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Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 01 2011,10:57) Mike
You skipped this which i thought WJ Made an excellent pointQuote You see Mike Jesus is not a god simply by title like all the other false gods because Jesus fulfills the Role of being God. Yet you do not admit that he is your God. How sad indeed. Who is Jesus “The God” of Mike, since you have no problem saying satan is “The God of this world“?
WJ
I did answer it to Keith. Look harder.mike
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 01 2011,11:03)
Jesus claimed the Father is IN HIM, and the he is IN The Father.
And in your mind, that means Jesus IS the Father, right? So how do you reconcile that with these scriptures?John 17:11 NIV
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.Do you understand those scriptures to mean some of us will also be the Father someday? If not, then why would you assume the same exact wording used of Jesus would mean that he is the Father? (Please address this point and these scriptures, D. You and Keith frequently use the “I and the Father are one” verse to “prove” Jesus is God. Please acknowledge that it says no such thing according to these scriptures, so we don't have to repeatedly hear this “proof text” from you guys. )
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 01 2011,11:03)
Its an argument abuot the meaning of Titles, when being God is a Identity of Perfection of a Supreme Being.
To the Hebrews, “el” meant “judge, ruler, mighty one”. Same for the Greeks. And as Keith and I have agreed, to the English, “god” means “powerful ruler”.It is a title D, not a personal name.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2010,19:55) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 01 2011,08:36) Is THE FATHER the Only One True Powerful Ruler mentioned in scripture? Yes or No, Keith. 
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 01 2011,08:36) Mike The answer is Yes!
Keith, if the answer is YES, then what's left to discuss? If the FATHER is the One, then Jesus is NOT that One……………UNLESS…………….Jesus IS the Father.Is he Keith?
No Mike , your assumption is based on a narrow view of God. The scriptures teach that The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are God. The problem you have is you do not reconcile the scriptures in your theology. You have a contradiction. You say “There is Only One True God” but then you say “There are other “true gods” which is contrary to what the scriptures teach.Is there “Only One True God or not Mike? If there is why do you claim that the scriptures teach there are other “gods”. Your belief fits the definition of a “Polytheist”.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2010,19:55) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 01 2011,09:08)
For if there is “Only One True God” (Only One true Powerful ruler) then Jesus is either that ruler or he is not God (powerful ruler) at all.
Sorry Keith, but that is assinine.
No Mike what is asinine is you claiming that the words (Only One true Powerful ruler ) means there are “Other True Powerful Rulers”I played your little game of changing the word God into powerful ruler and have shown you how your logic still fails. But you keep running around in circles like a rabbit trying to find a hole to climb into.
Mike you didn’t answer this question…
If God means “Powerful Ruler” then the question would have to be “Is YHVH the Only One True Powerful Ruler mentioned in scripture?”
You will probably say he is “BUT”….
Blessings Keith
PS I Love you man.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2010,20:33) It seems that Keith and I have settled on “powerful ruler”. Is that definition okay with you in an effort to move forward?
No MikeWe haven't settled anything. For even if the word God simply means “Powerful ruler” then to say there is “Only One Powerful ruler” would mean there are no other “Powerful rulers”. That’s simple English.
In that light the word God cannot mean simply powerful ruler for we know there were other “powerful rulers” and according to your definition every “powerful ruler” would be god.
Only One God means Only One God and no others Mike, and if there are other so-called gods then they are imposters, false, usurpers, idols, all made or created from the hearts of carnal men.
There are only two possibilities that can come from the words “ONLY ONE TRUE GOD“…
[1] ONE TRUE GOD AND NO OTHERS PERIOD
[2] FALSE GODS
So that leaves you with a conundrum.
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2010,20:36) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 01 2011,10:57) Mike
You skipped this which i thought WJ Made an excellent pointQuote You see Mike Jesus is not a god simply by title like all the other false gods because Jesus fulfills the Role of being God. Yet you do not admit that he is your God. How sad indeed. Who is Jesus “The God” of Mike, since you have no problem saying satan is “The God of this world“?
WJ
I did answer it to Keith. Look harder.mike
Really. I must have missed it.Could you please show me agian cause I can't find it. So let me ask it again…
Who is Jesus “The God” of Mike, since you have no problem saying satan is “The God of this world“?
Blessings WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2010,20:49) And as Keith and I have agreed, to the English, “god” means “powerful ruler”.
MikeNo we haven't! I simply played your game to show you how even if you word it that way it still means there is “Only One True God” and no others. That is scriptural Mike.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2011,07:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2010,19:55) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 01 2011,08:36) Is THE FATHER the Only One True Powerful Ruler mentioned in scripture? Yes or No, Keith. Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 01 2011,08:36) Mike The answer is Yes!
Keith, if the answer is YES, then what's left to discuss? If the FATHER is the One, then Jesus is NOT that One……………UNLESS…………….Jesus IS the Father.Is he Keith?
No Mike , your assumption is based on a narrow view of God. The scriptures teach that The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are God. The problem you have is you do not reconcile the scriptures in your theology. You have a contradiction. You say “There is Only One True God” but then you say “There are other “true gods” which is contrary to what the scriptures teach.
Hi Keith,Are you stuck now?
You mention “contradictions” of scripture? Scripture says, “yet for us there is but ONE God………THE FATHER”. That's it. That's what SCRIPTURE says, Keith.For you to say Jesus is God CONTRADICTS that scripture that says THE FATHER is our ONE God.
How will you deal with that without using diversion tactics?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2011,14:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2010,20:33) It seems that Keith and I have settled on “powerful ruler”. Is that definition okay with you in an effort to move forward?
No MikeWe haven't settled anything. For even if the word God simply means “Powerful ruler” then to say there is “Only One Powerful ruler” would mean there are no other “Powerful rulers”. That’s simple English.
In that light the word God cannot mean simply powerful ruler for we know there were other “powerful rulers” and according to your definition every “powerful ruler” would be god.
Only One God means Only One God and no others Mike, and if there are other so-called gods then they are imposters, false, usurpers, idols, all made or created from the hearts of carnal men.
There are only two possibilities that can come from the words “ONLY ONE TRUE GOD“…
[1] ONE TRUE GOD AND NO OTHERS PERIOD
[2] FALSE GODS
So that leaves you with a conundrum.
WJ
WJthere are many god describe in the scritures ,but there is only one true God ,this means that there is one only supreme God of all the so called gods,
what it means is that only one of those Gods is the one who does all things ,make all things ,and his all and soon be all in all.
no other God beside me .
Pierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2011,07:37) No Mike We haven't settled anything. For even if the word God simply means “Powerful ruler” then to say there is “Only One Powerful ruler” would mean there are no other “Powerful rulers”. That’s simple English.
Hi Keith,And considering it was Jesus saying “ONLY TRUE GOD” to his Father in heaven, and considering he didn't say, “US, the only true God”, but “YOU, the only true God”, you are the one with the conundrum.
Face it Keith, the second member of your alleged trinity Godhead says that THE FATHER is the “only true God”. And Paul says THE FATHER is our ONE God. Whatever will you do?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2011,07:43) Really. I must have missed it. Could you please show me agian cause I can't find it.
Page 23, 5th post.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2011,07:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 31 2010,20:49) And as Keith and I have agreed, to the English, “god” means “powerful ruler”.
MikeNo we haven't! I simply played your game to show you how even if you word it that way it still means there is “Only One True God” and no others. That is scriptural Mike.
WJ
Hi Keith,This post from page 23 answers your repeated questions, and leaves one from me unanswered. Please address the bolded part:
Now we're getting somewhere Keith.
Is God the ONLY one in scripture who is “A powerful ruler”? Absolutely not. So did Paul lie when he said there is but ONE “powerful ruler”? How about Jesus when he said that YHVH was the ONLY true “powerful ruler”? These are statements of emphasis Keith. They assure us that while there are many who are “powerful rulers”, there is only one who is the MOST POWERFUL RULER.
I find it funny that you so whole-heartedly argue about there being only ONE true God, but so easily dismiss the fact that both Jesus and Paul said that ONE true God is THE FATHER.
How can you get down to the nitty gritty about there being ONLY ONE powerful ruler, but neglect to understand that it is THE FATHER ONLY?
peace and love,
mikeHi WJ,
I have a question for you…
If you say the son of God is God, then how come
you don't say the children of the devil are the devil?Here is the biblical reference…
John 8:44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no
truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 02 2011,12:09) Hi Keith, Are you stuck now?
You mention “contradictions” of scripture? Scripture says, “yet for us there is but ONE God………THE FATHER”. That's it. That's what SCRIPTURE says, Keith.For you to say Jesus is God CONTRADICTS that scripture that says THE FATHER is our ONE God.
How will you deal with that without using diversion tactics?
peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,Excellent Point!… I wonder what Kieth will say?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 02 2011,13:56) Hi WJ, I have a question for you…
If you say the son of God is God, then how come
you don't say the children of the devil are the devil?Here is the biblical reference…
John 8:44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no
truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,That would make another Dilema.
Are you also willing to say that The Devil is the FATHER of the world?in other words God is not the Father.
Is the Devil REALLY a father.
He Lacks Truth, which is why he lies.Note: The Truth is not IN him.
Jesus Claims: I am the way, TRUTH, and the light,
he also claimed that the Father is IN him.(Now dont take this Post PERSONALLY Ed J, its just an observation)
I dont think the Devil can be compared to Jesus.Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,04:41) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 02 2011,13:56) Hi WJ, I have a question for you…
If you say the son of God is God, then how come
you don't say the children of the devil are the devil?Here is the biblical reference…
John 8:44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no
truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,That would make another Dilema.
Are you also willing to say that The Devil is the FATHER of the world?in other words God is not the Father.
Is the Devil REALLY a father.
He Lacks Truth, which is why he lies.Note: The Truth is not IN him.
Jesus Claims: I am the way, TRUTH, and the light,
he also claimed that the Father is IN him.(Now dont take this Post PERSONALLY Ed J, its just an observation)
I dont think the Devil can be compared to Jesus.
Hi SF,Who are the two sowers in Matt.13:36-43?
Matt.13:36-43 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house:
and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares
of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the
Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but
the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the
tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The
Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all
things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace
of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine
forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 02 2011,23:03) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,04:41) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 02 2011,13:56) Hi WJ, I have a question for you…
If you say the son of God is God, then how come
you don't say the children of the devil are the devil?Here is the biblical reference…
John 8:44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no
truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,That would make another Dilema.
Are you also willing to say that The Devil is the FATHER of the world?in other words God is not the Father.
Is the Devil REALLY a father.
He Lacks Truth, which is why he lies.Note: The Truth is not IN him.
Jesus Claims: I am the way, TRUTH, and the light,
he also claimed that the Father is IN him.(Now dont take this Post PERSONALLY Ed J, its just an observation)
I dont think the Devil can be compared to Jesus.
Hi SF,Who are the two sowers in Matt.13:36-43?
Matt.13:36-43 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house:
and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares
of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the
Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but
the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the
tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The
Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all
things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace
of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine
forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
You Didnt asnwer my Question.This is what doesnt make sense, Another Dilema.
You claim: Jesus cannot be God, because he is the Son of God, as we ALL are Sons of God.
The Sons of God according to the scripture are sowed by The Son of God. Yet you claim that Jesus is not the Father.
But in the same breath your now claiming that Satan is the Father of the tares?
Your saying that Jesus and the Devils position and title are about the Same.
Do you also think that the Devil is a Son of God?They Cannot be compared.
There is not one righteous according to Paul, only Christ.
So how does this fit into your Theology?(Im HONESTLY asking for the sake of understanding. there is no sarcasm nor any threat to be concerned about)
In Reality, is Satan the actual father of all those who are wicked? how about devils role in the story of Job for reference.
and you guys are also claiming that Jesus is God by title associtation but not in reality.
Again Just Askin, what say you?
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,10:22) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 02 2011,23:03) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,04:41) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 02 2011,13:56) Hi WJ, I have a question for you…
If you say the son of God is God, then how come
you don't say the children of the devil are the devil?Here is the biblical reference…
John 8:44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no
truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J,That would make another Dilema.
Are you also willing to say that The Devil is the FATHER of the world?in other words God is not the Father.
Is the Devil REALLY a father.
He Lacks Truth, which is why he lies.Note: The Truth is not IN him.
Jesus Claims: I am the way, TRUTH, and the light,
he also claimed that the Father is IN him.(Now dont take this Post PERSONALLY Ed J, its just an observation)
I dont think the Devil can be compared to Jesus.
Hi SF,Who are the two sowers in Matt.13:36-43?
Matt.13:36-43 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house:
and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares
of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the
Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but
the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil;
the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the
tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The
Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all
things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace
of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine
forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
You Didnt asnwer my Question.This is what doesnt make sense, Another Dilema.
You claim: Jesus cannot be God, because he is the Son of God, as we ALL are Sons of God.
The Sons of God according to the scripture are sowed by The Son of God. Yet you claim that Jesus is not the Father.
But in the same breath your now claiming that Satan is the Father of the tares?
Your saying that Jesus and the Devils position and title are about the Same.
Do you also think that the Devil is a Son of God?They Cannot be compared.
There is not one righteous according to Paul, only Christ.
So how does this fit into your Theology?(Im HONESTLY asking for the sake of understanding. there is no sarcasm nor any threat to be concerned about)
In Reality, is Satan the actual father of all those who are wicked? how about devils role in the story of Job for reference.
and you guys are also claiming that Jesus is God by title associtation but not in reality.
Again Just Askin, what say you?
Hi Dennison,First let's start by you not altering what the text says; OK?
Matt.13:37…He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; …Are you saying: the “The Son of Man” is God?
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 03 2011,04:37) Hi Dennison, First let's start by you not altering what the text says; OK?
Matt.13:37…He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; …Are you saying: the “The Son of Man” is God?
No Ed J,
I ask you alot of questions that you are still refusing to answer.Dont hound keith for not answering questions and than do the very same thing.
and second. The Verse you posted, says that the one that sowed is the Son of Man, and the good seeds are the children of the kingdom.
Question: Is the Son of Man, the same as The Son of God, Jesus Christ?
Question: Is the Children of the Kingdom, the same as the Sons of God, Children of the Light?Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,10:22) There is not one righteous according to Paul, only Christ.
So how does this fit into your Theology?
Hi SF,You need to study your bible a bit more; no?
You're not reading the text correctly here either?
Romans 3:12 is taken from Psalm 14:4 and Psalm 53:3.Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together
become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.Psalm 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together
become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.Psalm 53:3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether
become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.But if you go back to verse 1, you will see who is being referenced here(atheists)…
Psalm 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt,
they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.Psalm 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they,
and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 03 2011,10:47) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 03 2011,04:37) Hi Dennison, First let's start by you not altering what the text says; OK?
Matt.13:37…He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; …Are you saying: the “The Son of Man” is God?
No Ed J,
I ask you alot of questions that you are still refusing to answer.Dont hound keith for not answering questions and than do the very same thing.
and second. The Verse you posted, says that the one that sowed is the Son of Man, and the good seeds are the children of the kingdom.
1) Question: Is the Son of Man, the same as The Son of God, Jesus Christ?
2) Question: Is the Children of the Kingdom, the same as the Sons of God, Children of the Light?
Hi SF,Keep asking questions, SF, that's how you learn!
1) We are all “The Son's of Man”, Jesus uses this term to reference his humanity. (Heb.2:17)
2) We are predesignated to be “The Son's of God”; the same as Jesus was. (Romans 8:29)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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