MIKE, TERRA, ED

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 14 2012,21:12)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 14 2012,13:16) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 13 2012,04:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 13 2012,10:59) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 11 2012,20:19) Hi Mike, Where exactly is Jesus called “god” in scripture, because I certainly don't see it in my bible? Your KJV doesn't have Isaiah 9:6 or Hebrews 1:8? Hmmm………….. Hi Mike, Yep, my bible has both of those verses.      …and your point is…   ? God bless Ed J (1)Do you suppose Isaiah 9:6 is speaking about a DIFFERENT mighty god who was to be born of a virgin?  (2)Or do you suppose it speaks of Jesus? Hi Mike, 1) Remember YOU say “El-o-heem” means “a mighty one”.    So “God” would not be the correct rendering here. 2) Sure does, the government is upon his shoulder.

Why do you think Jesus is God now?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 13 2012,22:34)

And as I have told you before, you DO NOT have a revelation of the GODHEAD.

Agreed…….. which is good because there is no such thing as a “Godhead”.  If I ever receive that revelation, I will do what the scriptures tell me to do, and test that revelation against the written word of God.

And, since I will never be able to find such a thing in the written word of God, I will blow off that revelation as coming from someone other than God.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 13 2012,22:34)

You would be able to believe and would want to line up with God's Prophets.

You mean like Micah?

Micah 5
2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
   though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
   one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
   from ancient times.”

4 He will stand and shepherd his flock
   in the strength of the Lord,
   in the majesty of the name of the Lord his God.

Why will Jesus shepherd the flock in the strength of Jehovah, HIS GOD?  Does “God Almighty #2” not have his own strength with which to shepherd his flock?

Marlin, how can you say that “the Father” and “Jesus” are both the SAME God, when one shepherds the flock IN THE STRENGTH OF the other?  

How about Ezekiel?

Ezekiel 34
23 I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd. 24 I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the Lord have spoken.

The “servant David” here is Jesus.  How can they both be the same God when one is “their God” and the other is His “servant”, and the “prince among them”?

Perhaps YOU need to start aligning your beliefs with the prophets, Marlin.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 14 2012,04:12)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 14 2012,13:16) Do you suppose Isaiah 9:6 is speaking about a DIFFERENT mighty god who was to be born of a virgin? Hi Mike, 1) “God” would not be the correct rendering here.

Doesn't your AKJV said “god” in that verse?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 14 2012,04:14)

Why do you think Jesus is God now?

What do you mean by “now”?

I don't think Jesus is “God”, as in THE God Jehovah. I KNOW Jesus is a god, because he is called such in many scriptures. And I suppose he has been a god (powerful spirit being) since his own God begot him as the first of His works.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 16 2012,11:54)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 14 2012,04:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 14 2012,13:16) Do you suppose Isaiah 9:6 is speaking about a DIFFERENT mighty god who was to be born of a virgin? Hi Mike, 1) “God” would not be the correct rendering here. Doesn't your AKJV said “god” in that verse?

Large “G”

[mikeboll64]

So Jesus IS called a god in your AKJV?

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 16 2012,12:13)

So Jesus IS called a god in your AKJV?

Hi Mike,

“No”

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Marlin1]

Quote

Why will Jesus shepherd the flock in the strength of Jehovah, HIS GOD?  Does “God Almighty #2” not have his own strength with which to shepherd his flock? Marlin, how can you say that “the Father” and “Jesus” are both the SAME God, when one shepherds the flock IN THE STRENGTH OF the other?

Brother Mike,

Tell me what strength would a MAN have to come in?

Quote

The “servant David” here is Jesus.  How can they both be the same God when one is “their God” and the other is His “servant”, and the “prince among them”?

Brother Mike,

JOHN 6:63 † It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The Spirit here is GOD.  
COL 2:9 † For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
GODHEAD is in my bible 3 times.  Do you like the word DEITY, because you think that makes it ok to have two gods. How many times does scripture have to tell you that there is only ONE GOD and Creator.  Jesus has never been another god, but THE GOD in Flesh.

Brother, you seem not to be able to separate FLESH from SPIRIT.

God Bless
bro. Marlin

[Marlin1]

I JOHN 1:7 † But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The light has changed with the ages.  In the 1st age, the light they had was 100% Truth.
That is the light they had to walk in if they were His.

During the dark ages the light they had was a lot less, maybe 40 – 50% Truth.
But that was the light that God required His children to walk in.

In this last day, the children must turn back to their Pentecostal Fathers, 100% Truth.  That is the Light for this day.

The reverse is also true—if you don‘t walk in the light God sends for your age, the blood will not cleans your sins, irregardless of how much you profess to have faith.

God Bless
bro. Marlin

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 15 2012,20:05)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 16 2012,12:13) So Jesus IS called a god in your AKJV? Hi Mike, “No” God bless Ed J

And once again, it is time for me to walk away from your nonsense, Ed.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 15 2012,21:20)

Tell me what strength would a MAN have to come in?

Well, to complete a task that a man couldn't do, he would have to come in the strength of someone stronger than himself.

Are you now saying that Jesus WASN'T “God Almighty in the flesh”?  Are you saying he was a man who was LESS POWERFUL than the God he needed help from?

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 15 2012,21:20)

GODHEAD is in my bible 3 times.

Yet all the more recent TRINITARIAN translations have “deity”, and NOT “Godhead” – despite the fact their authors still believe in a Godhead.  They no longer use the word “Godhead” in their translations, because there was NEVER any evidence that the words translated as “Godhead” in the KJV actually meant any such thing.  You are free to keep the wool over your eyes if you're happy that way.

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 15 2012,21:20)

Do you like the word DEITY, because you think that makes it ok to have two gods.

Two gods?  The scriptures plainly teach about MANY gods, both in heaven and on earth.  (This is why Jehovah is distinguished as the God of gods, Marlin.  It's why He is distinguished as God Almighty, and the Most High God.  If there were truly only one god in existence, then ALL of those titles would be useless.  Just think it out, man.)

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 15 2012,21:20)

How many times does scripture have to tell you that there is only ONE GOD and Creator.

Come to my “Indeed there are many gods” thread, and let's find out.

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 15 2012,21:20)

Jesus has never been another god, but THE GOD in Flesh.

Uh-oh, now you're stuck.  Why did “THE GOD in Flesh” have to shepherd his flock in the strength of “YHWH, his God”?  

See how your own twisting of scripture comes back to haunt you?  That will always be the case, Marlin.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 16 2012,14:20)

JOHN 6:63 † It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. The Spirit here is GOD.   COL 2:9 † For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. GODHEAD is in my bible 3 times.  Do you like the word DEITY, because you think that makes it ok to have two gods. How many times does scripture have to tell you that there is only ONE GOD and Creator.  Jesus has never been another god, but THE GOD in Flesh. Brother, you seem not to be able to separate FLESH from SPIRIT.

Marlin………Even God himself said there were no other God's besides him.

Isa 44:8….> Fear you not, neither be afraid: have not I told you from that time, and have declared it? you are my witnesses Is there a God beside me? yea there is “no” God: I know not any

Now my question to Mike is would God LIE and say there is “NO” God besides Him?

And the scripture Mikes quotes about Paul saying there is many God's he quotes it wrongly IMO, Paul said though there be “so called” God's many. But unto us there is only “one” God. a “SO Called God is not saying those God actually exist. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Gene,

It is true that YHWH says there is no god beside Him.  But scripture speaks of many gods, right?  YHWH Himself even calls Satan “the god of Ekron”, right?

Also, consider that YHWH also says there is no Savior beside Him.  Yet we know that Jesus is but one of the MANY saviors God sent to His people.  Did God lie about being the only Savior, Gene?

Some of the members here need to learn about EMPHATICAL statements.  Like the disciples saying Jesus knew “ALL things” – when it is clear from scripture that he didn't.  Or Jesus saying “ALL authority” was given him – when it is clear that he does not have authority over his own God, Jehovah.

Paul even tries to help you guys in 1 Cor 15, when he says “EVERYTHING has been put under Jesus”, but then EXPLAINS that when he says “EVERYTHING”, that word doesn't include the God who PUT “everything” under Jesus in the first place.

See Gene?  These are examples of EMPHATICAL statements, and are not to be taken LITERALLY.  Do you REALLY suppose Jehovah could be the “God OF gods”, if there weren't any other gods for Him to be the God of?  Do you think the title “MOST HIGH God” makes sense if there are no other “less high” gods?  

(Btw, there is no Hebrew or Greek scripture that uses the phrases “false god” or “so-called god”.  These are English phrases that have been ADDED to the scriptures in an attempt to protect the Bible from itself.  Please acknowledge for me that you've read this line, and either agree with it or can scripturally refute it.  I ask this of you so I don't have to keep repeating myself over and over about this same thing.)

[Marlin1]

Quote

Are you now saying that Jesus WASN'T “God Almighty in the flesh”?  Are you saying he was a man who was LESS POWERFUL than the God he needed help from?

I have said it before, but I will say it again.  Jehovah of the old testament is Jesus of the New.  It was always the same God, period.  Jesus was GOD in Flesh, not a god in flesh as you suppose.  Jesus was the tabernacle that GOD dwelt in.  There is no other GOD the saviour.  There is no other GOD the creator.

Quote

GODHEAD is in my bible 3 times. Yet all the more recent TRINITARIAN translations have “deity”, and NOT “Godhead” – despite the fact their authors still believe in a Godhead.  They no longer use the word “Godhead” in their translations, because there was NEVER any evidence that the words translated as “Godhead” in the KJV actually meant any such thing.  You are free to keep the wool over your eyes if you're happy that way.

Thank you, and you are free to stay in the dark, for the age that you live.

Quote

How many times does scripture have to tell you that there is only ONE GOD and Creator. Come to my “Indeed there are many gods” thread, and let's find out.

Been there, we need more of GOD, not more of man.

Quote

Jesus has never been another god, but THE GOD in Flesh. Uh-oh, now you're stuck.  Why did “THE GOD in Flesh” have to shepherd his flock in the strength of “YHWH, his God”?

How can a blind man see truth,  
REV 3:18 † I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

He is GODS very OWN SON.  The very created sinless SON of GOD.
Jesus was the INCARNATE GOD, which is the same as GOD in Flesh.
He was the FULLNESS of the GODHEAD BODILY.
All POWER and AUTHORITY is in HIM. ALL means ALL

When HE said Lazarus, COME FORTH.  HE WAS GOD. That was more than a man that called a man that had been dead for four days forth.

One time you ask the difference between Jesus and Moses or some other prophet.
The difference is this, Jesus is the only begotten SON of GOD.  Emanuel (GOD with us) The only totally SINLESS human and He chose to take on the sin of man and become a sin offering.  Not another man in human history could do that.
REV 5:3 † And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
REV 5:5 † And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

All other humans are born in sin, shaped in iniquity, come to the world speaking lies.

God bless
bro. Marlin

[Marlin1]

Brother Mike,

MARK 12:32 † And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Does the above mean only one GOD?

MAL 2:10 † Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?…..
Does the above mean only one GOD?

I COR 8:6 † But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
So what exactly does this mean to you? Keep in mind all the scriptures like the two above.

EPH 4:5 † One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 † One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
How about here, One Lord.  One God?

I TIM 2:5 † For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
How about this one?

JOHN 1:12 † But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 † Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.    
What did they have to receive him as?

JOHN 1:18 † No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
JOHN 14:9 † Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;……
We can not see a SPIRIT, but that SPIRIT was in Jesus reconciling all that was lost in the WORLD to HIMSELF

JOHN 10:30 † I and my Father are one.
If you have TRULY have SEEN JESUS then you have SEEN the FATHER.

God Bless
bro. Marlin

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 19 2012,16:25)

JOHN 14:9 † Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;…… We can not see a SPIRIT, but that SPIRIT was in Jesus reconciling all that was lost in the WORLD to HIMSELF JOHN 10:30 † I and my Father are one. If you have TRULY have SEEN JESUS then you have SEEN the FATHER. God Bless bro. Marlin

Marlin……..I believe you see it clearly that God the Father was truly “in” Jesus. God did indwell Jesus and often spoke first person “through” him . I t was not Jesus the man that said  “destory this temple and in three days I (GOD) shall raise “IT” up, that was God the father speaking through Jesus' very mouth first person

Another place where this happened is Here,

Mat 23:37…..> O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that Killest the prophets, and stone them which are sent unto you, how often would I (God the Father) have gathered your childern together, even as a hen gathers chickens under her wings, and you would not, (38) Behold, your house is left to you desolate (39) For i say unto you, you shall not see me henceforth, till you sahll say Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

That was God the Father speaking First Person through the Man Jesus.

One thing we must understand though, is Becasue God the Father speaks through a Person a Man or Angel, does not make that person Himself a God, and that includes Jesus also. IMO

Here is another scripture that backe this up also

Mar 13:11…..> But when they shall lead you and deliver you up, take no thought beforhand what you shall speak, neither do you premeditate: but whatever shal be given you on that hour, that speak you: for “IT” is not you that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

and again

Mat 10:19….> But when they deliever you up, take no thought how or what you shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak,(20) For it is  “not” you that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaks “IN” you.

God the Father was truly “in” Jesus speaking through him as he (God) can through any Angel or Man.
So when Thomas came to understand this,  he responded my Lord “and” my God. Notice He did not say, My Lord God , but My Lord (AND) my God. He was simply acknowleding GoD Presents “IN” Jesus.

Yes God the Father was “IN” Jesus but makeing Jeus the God that was “IN” him is Idolatary. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 18 2012,21:04)

I have said it before, but I will say it again.  Jehovah of the old testament is Jesus of the New.  It was always the same God, period.  Jesus was GOD in Flesh, not a god in flesh as you suppose

Then why do you suppose the “God in Flesh Jesus (who used to be Jehovah)” shepherds the flock in the strength of his own God, Jehovah?

A.  How can he shepherd the flock in the strength of someone who doesn't even exist anymore, because He turned into Jesus?

B.  Why does it say Jesus shepherds the flock in the name of Jehovah, HIS God?

Marlin, your claims just simply don't add up to the scriptures.

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 18 2012,21:04)

Thank you, and you are free to stay in the dark, for the age that you live.

Actually, it was the KJV translators who were in the dark about a lot of things.  We have since uncovered older and better mss, and have learned a lot more about the Hebrew and Greek languages.

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 18 2012,21:04)

Been there, we need more of GOD, not more of man.

Spoken like a man who is AFRAID to deal with what the scriptures PLAINLY teach.  Let me know if you are ever man enough to face your fears and start believing the scriptures as they were written.

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 18 2012,21:04)

He is GODS very OWN SON.  The very created sinless SON of GOD.

Correct.  ONE God, and His ONE CREATED Son (who is NOT the God he is the Son of).

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 18 2012,21:04)

Jesus was the INCARNATE GOD, which is the same as GOD in Flesh.

Can't you see how your first statement is scriptural, and your second statement not only contradicts your first one, but it ISN'T scriptural?    How can a blind man see the truth?  

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 18 2012,21:04)

All POWER and AUTHORITY is in HIM. ALL means ALL

Not always, Marlin.  Consider 1 Cor 8:6, where Paul says EVERYTHING is under Jesus, but then explains that the word “everything” doesn't REALLY mean “everything”, because Jesus' own God, who put everything under him, is not included.

It is similar with the “all authority”.  Obviously, the One who GAVE him “all authority” is not under Jesus' authority.  Obviously, the ONE who gave him “all authority” has even MORE authority than His servant, to whom He gave “all authority”.

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 18 2012,21:04)

When HE said Lazarus, COME FORTH.  HE WAS GOD.

No.  God did the works through His holy servant Jesus.  (Acts 2:22)

Marlin, we are just going around in circles and wasting each other's time.  You have yet to give one single “Jesus is God” proof text that I haven't shot down immediately and scripturally.  And I don't have the time or patience to keep wading through your many false and unscriptural claims.  What I'd LIKE to do is discuss your many false points ONE AT A TIME, so I can show you they are false.

For example, you claimed that God has to reveal to us that Jesus is God.  And you used Matthew 16:15-18 as your “proof text”, right?  But it wasn't revealed to Peter that Jesus was God.  It was revealed to Peter, BY Jesus' own God in heaven, that Jesus was the Son of God.

I pointed this out to you, but you just blew it off and started posting even more scriptures and the things you claim those scriptures say – when they surely DON'T say what you claim they say.

But every time I show you that the scripture DOESN'T say what you claim it does, you ignore that proof I show you, and just move on to even more false claims.

If you want to have a SERIOUS and GROWN UP scriptural discussion with me, then let's do this ONE POINT AT A TIME.  We can start with Matthew 16:15-18.  One passage, one question:

Marlin, was it revealed to Peter by the Father in heaven that Jesus was:

A.  God Almighty?
B.  The Son of God?

Which one please?

Address ONLY that point above, Marlin.  Then we can move forward at a snail's pace.

peace,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Marlin1 @ Nov. 18 2012,23:25)

Brother Mike, MARK 12:32 † And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: Does the above mean only one GOD?

That's a great one to start with, Marlin!  It makes it easy to prove MY point.

Here are some more accurate translations:
NASB ©
The scribe said to Him, “Right, Teacher; You have truly stated that HE IS ONE, AND THERE IS NO ONE ELSE BESIDES HIM;

BBE ©
And the scribe said to him, Truly, Master, you have well said that he is one, and there is no other but he:

NRSV ©
Then the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that ‘he is one, and besides him there is no other’;

NWT
The scribe said to him: “Teacher, you well said in line with truth, ‘He is One, and there is no other than He’;

See?  Although some English translations add the word “God” to the text (because they know God is the one being discussed), the actual Greek words are “there is no OTHER besides Him”.

Now Marlin, would those actual words the expert in the Law said mean that God is the only BEING in existence?  I'm an “other”, right?  You're an “other”, right?  So what did it mean for this expert to say there is NO OTHER besides Him?

See how we can't take all scriptural words literally?

My turn:

Deuteronomy 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.

Marlin, can you name one of the gods Jehovah is the God of?

[Marlin1]

Quote

One thing we must understand though, is Becasue God the Father speaks through a Person a Man or Angel, does not make that person Himself a God, and that includes Jesus also. IMO Here is another scripture that backe this up also Mar 13:11…..> But when they shall lead you and deliver you up, take no thought beforhand what you shall speak, neither do you premeditate: but whatever shal be given you on that hour, that speak you: for “IT” is not you that speak, but the Holy Ghost. and again Mat 10:19….> But when they deliever you up, take no thought how or what you shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak,(20) For it is  “not” you that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaks “IN” you. God the Father was truly “in” Jesus speaking through him as he (God) can through any Angel or Man. So when Thomas came to understand this,  he responded my Lord “and” my God.  Notice He did not say, My Lord God , but My Lord (AND) my God. He was simply acknowleding GoD Presents “IN” Jesus. Yes God the Father was “IN” Jesus but makeing Jeus the God that was “IN” him is Idolatary. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

Brother Gene,

Thank you for your comments.  I totally see the point you are trying to make and I would agree with you, except Jesus was not just a man, He was the very SON of the LIVING GOD.  There is a difference between a son of God and THE SON of GOD.

I will try to explain my understanding a little better.  1st thing I would say is that I believe we are in agreement that it was always GOD, the self same SPIRIT, doing the work as the Father over the people, as the Son with the people, as the Holy Ghost in His people.  RIGHT?

next is this,
Jesus is the only created Son of GOD. He did not become a son of God as we, He was created The SON of GOD. In the womb of Mary HE was the Son of GOD.  He was born the Son of GOD.  He is Emanuel (GOD with US).  He is the Incarnate GOD.  He was GOD in Flesh. He is our Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, He which Was, which Is, and shall Come, the Root and Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star, the Rose of Sharon, the Lily of the Valley, The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Jesus was much more then a man with the Spirit of God in Him,  He was the GOD Man, not a God man or man of God, but THE GOD MAN.

We are not saved by the blood of a man or woman or the blood of a Jew or Gentile, we are SAVED by the BLOOD of GOD.
Peter and Paul spoke of it as the Blood of Christ.

Are we still in agreement or please tell me
which of the these points do you disagree with and why?

God Bless
bro. Marlin

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