Michael, who is he?

Participant

David,

He could be ,no Jesus could not be Michael one of the princes of God

Jesus Christ ,HIS THE ONLY SON OF GOD ,and God as chosen that he would have supremacy over all his creation,

Michael could at best be one of the four creatures that John sees before the throne of God Rev:5:14

March 26, 2012 at 1:47 pm#287972

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To All………What is interesting Jesus never said he was any kind of Angel EVER, at ANY TIME> So should we just put on him something he never said he was, What i read is that he said he was a “SON OF MAN” about 80 times and yet not one mention of what Jesus said he was from you “PREEXISTENCES” like the Trinitarians and JW's and the rest of the Preexistences here. All of you seem to disagree with, who Jesus said He was. Now that is interesting isn't it? In fact i never read where Jesus existed as any thing before his berth on this earth except in the Plan and WILL of GOD and in Prophesies about his coming into existence as the Messiah in the earth. Interesting on how much is added to what is not even written no where.

peace and love to you all…………………………………………………………..gene

March 26, 2012 at 6:07 pm#287985

Participant

Quote (Colter @ Mar. 27 2012,10:07)

Some of the Book of Revelation is “retrospective”.

Michael is the heavenly name for Jesus, he is now Michael after he retuned to heaven.

The war in heaven was past tense, it was ideological. Satan, a lesser Son of God, rebelled against the concept of a universal Father. He subsequently rebelled against his creator brother Michael.

One reason Michael incarnate on the earth as Jesus was to terminate the rebellion through a living demonstration of the truth of the Father.

Satan has been defeated, he is no more.

Colter

colter

Quote

Michael is the heavenly name for Jesus, he is now Michael after he retuned to heaven.

hmmmm,JW teachings

scriptures not opinions

March 26, 2012 at 6:22 pm#287988

Participant

Hi Colter,
Yes the JWs teach this without any scriptural basis.
Speculations are very popular.

March 26, 2012 at 9:40 pm#288014

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2012,09:41)

.
David said:

Quote

JW's, who picked up some of their beliefs from Adventists, say that Jesus is Michael the archangel

Jesus CAN'T be Michael!

Hebrews 1:4-5 [Jesus] Being made so much better than the angels,
as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I
begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Colter?

March 27, 2012 at 12:24 am#288055

Blocked

Nick,

I've just read a couple pages of “scriptural basis”. I'm not on board with Jesus being Michael as of now, but David is posting some pretty good arguments.

Hey, I have an idea: Instead of labeling it as JW crap, why not try to refute the stuff David has just posted?

And Ed, David's posts answered your question already. But I'll answer it a different way:

For to which one of the human beings did God say, “I will make you a father of many nations”?

The answer, of course, is Abraham.

So, in the question, For to which one of the angels did God say, “You are my Son”?, the answer could be “Jesus is the angel to whom God said, 'You are my Son' “.

And just like the first question doesn't rule out Abraham being a human being, the second wouldn't rule out Jesus being an angel.

March 27, 2012 at 12:26 am#288056

Blocked

Quote (david @ Mar. 26 2012,00:30)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2012,06:49)

Hi Mb,
So to you he is a lesser god and an angel[pass the scriptures please]
Are all angels gods?

Quote

Hi MB,
Scripture calls angels and men gods.

–Nick, several pages later.

I know, right?

(Except I think you have it backwards. First he gave the scriptural examples, then later asked me to show him the scriptures that said what he already said himself.)

March 27, 2012 at 1:02 am#288065

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 27 2012,11:24)

Nick,

I've just read a couple pages of “scriptural basis”. I'm not on board with Jesus being Michael as of now, but David is posting some pretty good arguments.

Hey, I have an idea: Instead of labeling it as JW crap, why not try to refute the stuff David has just posted?

And Ed, David's posts answered your question already. But I'll answer it a different way:

For to which one of the human beings did God say, “I will make you a father of many nations”?

The answer, of course, is Abraham.

So, in the question, For to which one of the angels did God say, “You are my Son”?, the answer could be “Jesus is the angel to whom God said, 'You are my Son' “.

And just like the first question doesn't rule out Abraham being a human being, the second wouldn't rule out Jesus being an angel.

Hi MB,
Happy to look at any scriptures that say Jesus is an angel or Michael or a lesser god.

But there are none.

This is a scripture study site isn't it?

March 27, 2012 at 1:29 am#288074

Participant

all

DA 10:13 “But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.
DA 10:21 “However, I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth. Yet there is no one who stands firmly with me against these forces except Michael your prince.

DA 12:1 “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.
JUDE 1:9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “ The Lord rebuke you!”
REV 12:7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,

those are the only scriptures that are referring to MICHAEL the archangel or one of the archangels (DA;10;13)

Michael the archangel is also called the angel of the people of God DA;12;1 he seems to keep track of whom his written in the book

it also seems that Michael looks after Gods work on earth Jude1;9

and in REV 12;7 he and his angels waging war against Satan and his angels

NOW;

could this be Michael ??

Rev 19:13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
Rev 19:14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.” He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
Rev 19:16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS

—————————————————————–

now we can see the LAMB (Jesus) alone before the throne of God ;

Rev 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
Rev 7:10 And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
Rev 7:11 All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
Rev 7:12 saying:
“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”

there seems no one else with Jesus of cause God ,but 24 elders and 4 creatures

could Micheal be one of them

———————————————————-

Now see this ;

Rev 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.
Rev 7:2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea:
Rev 7:3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”
Rev 7:4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

could Michael be one of those four angels that ad received power to do what it says ;;but yet as to protect the 144000 chosen ones .

—————————————————–

now

it says that Micheal is one of the princes or chiefs

Rev 5:13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”

Rev 5:14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
Rev 5:6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth

we see here what John sees ;God ,the Lamb (Christ) and the four creatures and the 24 elders ;Rev 5:2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?”could this angel be Michael

Rev 4:6 Also before the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.
In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back.
Rev 4:7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle.
Rev 4:8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying:

“Holy, holy, holy
is the Lord God Almighty,
who was, and is, and is to come.”

could it be that Michael is one of the four Creatures ? well he would be one of them ,chief angels ;because Christ is still shown always alone ,

so this is my two cents why I do not believe that Christ his Michael,

March 27, 2012 at 2:42 am#288106

Blocked

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2012,19:02)

Hi MB,
Happy to look at any scriptures that say Jesus is an angel or Michael or a lesser god.

But there are none.

Okay Nick,

Are you ready to put your money where your mouth is?

Revelation 1:1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.

Nick, are spirit messengers of God typically called “angels” in the scriptures? YES or NO?

Nick, have you yourself admitted that angels are called gods in the scripture? YES or NO?

Check, and mate. Yes, Jesus is an angel of God because he is a spirit being who delivers God's messages to others.

And yes, angels are and can be called gods in scripture. Of course they are not God Most High, and so are “less high” than God Most High. And a god who is “less high” than God Most High would be a lesser god.

Now, will you admit that I haven't spoken one unscriptural word in that whole post? Will you admit when you are wrong, Nick?

March 27, 2012 at 2:48 am#288107

Participant

Hi MB,
So angel means messenger.
Angels can be called gods.

THERFORE WHAT?

O you want us to add in speculation?

You are not serious.

March 27, 2012 at 2:52 am#288110

Blocked

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 26 2012,20:48)

Hi MB,
So angel means messenger.
Angels can be called gods.

BINGO! You've got it, Nick!

Jesus is a spirit messenger of his God, and therefore an angel by definition. DO YOU AGREE? OR CAN YOU REFUTE?

Angels are gods, according to scriptures, yet they are lesser gods than God Most High. DO YOU AGREE? OR CAN YOU REFUTE?

If you cannot refute this SCRIPTURAL teaching I just laid on you, then you have no choice but to admit that Jesus is a lessor god than his own God Most High.

And he will be called “mighty god”………..

Scriptures are carefully laid out, Nick.

March 27, 2012 at 3:00 am#288111

Participant

Hi MB,
So all the messengers in scripture are angels?

Derivations from human logic do not stack up against the wisdom of God do they??

March 27, 2012 at 3:12 am#288114

Participant

Hi MB,
Should a moderator on a bible study site encourage learning by speculation?
1 tim 1.4
rom 1.21
2cor10.5
2tim 2.23

March 27, 2012 at 3:19 am#288116

Participant

Nick and Mike are you not off topic here ???????

March 27, 2012 at 3:40 am#288127

david

Participant

Quote

Hi MB,
So angel means messenger.
Angels can be called gods.

Nick, angel doesn't mean messenger really. The word translated to “angel” is the very same word that is translated “messenger.” The translator gets to decide which is meant. Sometimes, it could go either way.

March 27, 2012 at 3:41 am#288128