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Hi,
Sky3[welcome] has asked to discuss this subject so I have opened a thread.
Perhaps the witch of Endor may be useful to discuss.
1 Samuel 28:7
Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.Nick and I had a lengthy discussion on this on page 40 of the “soul” thread, here:
Adding a response I gave to Nick:
“Saul had removed himself, far from God.
Realizing that he is abandoned by Jehovah God, he turns to witchcraft, which he had at the beginning banned from his kingdom.
YOU said that Saul “knew” it was Samuel. Well, your Bible says that Saul PERCEIVED that it was Samuel. He perceived this based completely on what the SPIRIT MEDIUM (a person whose actions are completely condemned by God as detestable) told him!!!!
Again, verse 13 and 14 SHOW THAT SAUL HIMSELF DID NOT SEE SAMUEL BUT ONLY assumed FROM THE DESCRIPTION GIVEN BY THE SPIRIT MEDIUM THAT SHE SAW SAMUEL. “Saul died for being unfaithful to Jehovah, partly because he did this disgusting thing of consulting a spirit medium. (1 chron 10:13,14)
Jehovah had already cut off help to Saul. So this message from whoever or whatever was certainly not from Jehovah. (Plus, the message was inaccurate. So, it wasn't from God.)
This spirit medium, or witch, this woman of the black arts, was not a servant of Jehovah. What she practices was condemned as “detestable to Jehovah.” This person stood in oppostion to Jehovah.
So, is it possible for this person to call forth righteous dissembodied spirit beings from where they are? “Samuel” seemed to be interupted, or annoyed at being called up. So, does this mean that an unrighteous spirit medium has some control over righteous dead people? Can those serving Satan really yank a saved soul out of its spiritual repose? Do the wicked of this world have that kind of power?
Does Satan have power over the holy ones? Can Satan actually reach into Paradise and drag “souls” out of there for his own devious purposes?So she was not providing the nice cute service of letting the dead communicate with their loved ones. If our loved ones were alive in some spirit realm, then why would Jehovah not allow us to communicate with them? Why would he view it as detestable and “unclean.”
It's because Jehovah knows the truth and wants to protect us. The demons want to decieve us. They want to deceive us into believing that it doesn't matter what we do, good or bad, we will not really ever die.
But this is a lie.
When Saul went to the medium, Jehovah’s spirit had for some time been removed from him, and in fact, God would not answer his inquiries by means of dreams or by the Urim (used by the high priest) or by the prophets. (1Sa 28:6) God would have no more to do with him; and God’s prophet Samuel had not seen Saul for a long period of time, from before David’s being anointed to be king. So IT IS UNREASONABLE TO THINK THAT SAMUEL, EVEN IF STILL ALIVE, WOULD NOW COME TO GIVE SAUL ADVICE.
And God would certainly not cause Samuel, whom he had not sent to Saul before his death, to come back from the dead to talk to Saul.—1Sa 15:35.
We are told that “Although Saul would inquire of Jehovah, Jehovah never answered him, either by dreams or by the Úrim or by the prophets.” (28:6)Could Saul trick Jehovah by going about this another way to get some information from him through Samuel?
For the flip side of the argument, Malcom makes some interesting points starting on this page:
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 20 2009,13:34) For tj and rs
Greetings Nick…….The witch had a familiar spirit….our medians/physics/fortune tellers all have the ability to conjure spirits and since these spirits have been with us since the fall they are familiar with events,people and not sensitive to time…These familiar spirits are the minions that were cast to the earth along with Lucifer aka Satan….Hi TJ,
I agree they are demons or evil spirits who pass from one person to another thus gaining information about them throughout time. They serve satan as part of the dominion of darkness.The word lucifer cannot be fixed to satan from one verse and the throwing of Satan and his angelic minions to earth seems to relate to the future great tribulation.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2009,04:03) Hi TJ,
I agree they are demons or evil spirits who pass from one person to another thus gaining information about them throughout time. They serve satan as part of the dominion of darkness.The word lucifer cannot be fixed to satan from one verse and the throwing of Satan and his angelic minions to earth seems to relate to the future great tribulation.
Greetings Nick…..If the casting down of the minions is in the the future,than what are they doing here now….”as if we don't know” scripture has a tendancy toward duality and perhaps we can look forward to an increased number of these devients in the near future….Hi CON,
So you think that it was not Samuel but the manifestation of a demon?
What scriptural support can you offer?
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