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WorshippingJesus said to Mikeboll:
Quote Why don't you guys write your own Bible. Oh thats right you did, its called the NWT which stands for No Worthy Translators!
WJ's on a roll!Roo
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2010,15:39) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 27 2010,09:40) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 26 2010,17:04) So Jesus is a true Theos and the Father is not the ONLY true Theos. Correct? 
Yep, another one of those “title confusion tricks”. THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUE GOD BUT THERE ARE OTHER TRUE GODS!
Yet YHWH says…
YOU are my witnesses,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even my servant whom I have chosen, in order that YOU may know and have faith in me, and that YOU may understand that I am the same One. “BEFORE ME THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED, AND AFTER ME THERE CONTINUED TO BE NONE. 11 I—I am Jehovah, and besides me there is no savior.” Isa 43:10 NWT
Even his own Bible contradicts him!
WJ
Hi WJ,I know you cannot be that daft. Is Satan “a god” meaning “mighty one” or not? Are the other angels? Is Jesus?
Of course they are. The scriptures say so. Here's the clincher: are any of these the Father? No. There is only one true God Almighty Father in heaven. I know you get this, but you must follow your man-made doctrine over a simple understanding of scripture.
Paul clearly said “there are many gods”.
You and Roo (and a dog named Boo…sorry – old Lobo song)
You and Jack seem to think that if you close your eyes and hope with all your might that Satan will not exist. I got news for ya – he does. And he is the god of this age. And he is truly a god (mighty one), therefore a true god.
Since you guys insist on ignoring David's great points, I'll keep seconding them. David asks if the only kind of gods there are is God Almighty and false gods. If so, when God said of men “you are gods”, He was either lying, or He didn't know the difference between true gods and false gods. He didn't say “you are false gods”, did He? Then it stands to reason that He knew them to be true gods (mighty ones).
By your reasoning, Yoda was a mighty warrior, but Darth Vader wasn't because he was a “bad guy”. Face it, they were both mighty warriors.
You can't take away everything the scriptures say about Satan just because you don't like him.
I don't like him either, but I'm smart enough to ask God to keep him and his away from me because I know I am no match for a god.
Do you understand this very simple truth? “No God formed” does not mean there are no other “mighty ones”, just no other “Almighty ones”. Get it?
peace and love,
mike
Hey mike,Speaking about things that people do not refute,
It seems we are back to the matter of “gods” again that in my thread we discussed…but you never answered back….
im going to repost it here.becasue its sums up my basic response. and note AGAIN.
basic summary:
John 10 Mike refutes that Jesus corrected the Jews using the term “gods”.I refute back that Jesus did not defend himself in turn he use that to extend his point.
and that Jesus is basicaly saying if you can believe, you guys are gods, and that scripture cannot be broken, than why cant you believe what i say, who have been SANCTIFIED, AND SENT by God, and not believe me, when i say that “I am the son of God”
and if i do not do my fathers work than ok dont believe, but if i do… than whats up ! (Modern translation)Quote Quote
Jesus never said nor hinted that their accusation was right. Rather, he taught them the correct use of 'theos' by pointing out what was written in the OT, 'I have said you are gods' (theos). Here it is in the same text, and a clue is given:Are you talking about this verse that Jesus talked about?
Psalm 82
” 1God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.2How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.
3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
7But ye shall die like men , and fall like one of the princes.
8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.”
Idk doesnt seem that Jesus was talking abotu the same thing.
if we look again on verse
35: IF he called THEM gods, unto who the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; (continuation of his point)36: say ye of him, whom the father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, (this is a question)
, thou blasphemest; because i said, I am the Son of God?well to me its saying that first if the writer called them gods, and that word is inspired by God, than it cannot be broken.
in other words why would you say that i blasphme when you know that i have been sanctfied, and sent into the world… and say its wrong for me to say i am the Son of God?Idk.. thats the way i see it.
I mean the first gods that is mentions they will die, as princes… i think its different. Jesus is says first off that he is differnt from them by saying that he was sanctified and also sent into the world.
I see differnces there. what do you think?
than he says
hey if i dont do the works of my father, dont believe me,When it comes to authoriy, and what the title God means, there can only be one highlander bro,
Only One,
The god of this earth still has to come to God for permission in Job. Yet who is it that lets rain fall on saint and sinner alike?
Who tells the ocean tide to stop only to this distance within the earth?Who controls these things? the god of this earth, or the God of everything?
Who is really in control here, for Gods weakeness is greater thann all of us
1st Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things wh
ich are mighty;28And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
WorshippingJesus asked Mike:
Quote Why do you insist on contradicting YHWHs words that there were no gods formed? Answer: Because Mike and David are polytheists. They claim that they are not polytheists because they do not “worship” lesser gods. But the commandment also said that the people may not “serve” them.
This is a conundrum for Mike and David because we are commanded to serve Jesus Christ who Mike says is a god like satan. Therefore, God has commanded them to break the commandment. But if Christ be God the conundrum disappears.
roo
WorshippingJesus said to Mike:
Quote You have to believe in Polytheism to hold on to your pagan belief that the Apostles taught there were other gods so that you can put Jesus in the same class.
Since the apostles served Jesus then they served a god which is in the same class as satan. The commandement prohibited the people to serve other gods.Mike has really dug a hole for himself. He won't be able to count on me to throw him a rope.
roo
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 27 2010,12:13) WorshippingJesus asked Mike: Quote Why do you insist on contradicting YHWHs words that there were no gods formed? Answer: Because Mike and David are polytheists. They claim that they are not polytheists because they do not “worship” lesser gods. But the commandment also said that the people may not “serve” them.
This is a conundrum for Mike and David because we are commanded to serve Jesus Christ who Mike says is a god like satan. Therefore, God has commanded them to break the commandment. But if Christ be God the conundrum disappears.
roo
JackTrue. When Mike started his 'Jesus=Websters” response to when ever I pointed out their Polythiesm he had to detract because I point out that part of the definition Websters gives for “god” is that “a god” has control over peoples lives yet Mike cannot call Jesus his God though he claims he is “a god”.
But to whom is Jesus “a god”, was my question to him, if he is not the God of his followers and those who serve him then who is he “a god” to?
The rabbit holes gets deeper and deeper in their theology!
WJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 27 2010,12:18) WorshippingJesus said to Mike: Quote You have to believe in Polytheism to hold on to your pagan belief that the Apostles taught there were other gods so that you can put Jesus in the same class.
Since the apostles served Jesus then they served a god which is in the same class as satan. The commandement prohibited the people to serve other gods.Mike has really dug a hole for himself. He won't be able to count on me to throw him a rope.
roo
JackSince they basically believe that anything that is “Mighty” is a god then I suppoose it won't be long before they acknowledge the President of the USA or Osama Bin Laden or even Hitler are gods, heck before long they may be calling each other gods since that is what they believe!
Their writings to each other may start something like this “to my friend and my god (theos) _, ….”
Of course I am kidding but it just shows how they say one thing but in practice do another. Jesus is “a god” but he is not “my god”!
The thing is they do not have any scripture where any servant of YHWH or Jesus ever called any being their God other than YHWH and Jesus in all 66 books. Which means that they are false gods, for the servants of the “One True God” serve him only!
WJ
Kj,
Can you just tell me: Who are 'the Mighty Ones'?
Jack, once again you only quote part of the verse. The rest of the verse provides the qualification for the whole.
God is calling His 'Special Son'. Just as Abraham called Isaac. And we know Abraham had more than one son. In fact, Isaac was called 'Only Son', yet we know Abraham had more than one son.
In fact he had many other sons.What is 'special' about this 'One' son, Isaac? Answer, that it was through this 'special' son that the promise of God would come….just as through this 'one son', Jesus, that the promise of salvation would come.
Quote (JustAskin @ May 28 2010,07:55) Kj, Can you just tell me: Who are 'the Mighty Ones'?
Jack, once again you only quote part of the verse. The rest of the verse provides the qualification for the whole.
God is calling His 'Special Son'. Just as Abraham called Isaac. And we know Abraham had more than one son. In fact, Isaac was called 'Only Son', yet we know Abraham had more than one son.
In fact he had many other sons.What is 'special' about this 'One' son, Isaac? Answer, that it was through this 'special' son that the promise of God would come….just as through this 'one son', Jesus, that the promise of salvation would come.
JA……….Guarantee you they wouldn't answer this post.peace and love to you and yours…………….gene
Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 27 2010,16:43) Satan is a created thing. Yeshua is the CREATOR of “all things” (John 1:3, Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, Heb 1:2). That should give you a clue Mike. Clearly these two are not equivalent beings….
Hi Paul,So you will ignore the fact that Jesus is the “firstborn of all creation”, the “beginning of the creation of God”, the “only begotten Son” and other scriptures?
Forget the scriptures just for a second. Use common sense. When in the history of the world has a son been the same exact being as his father? How much clearer could the Bible have said it? There is a Father. There is His Son. The Son was begotten by the Father. For me to be able to dispute all these clear signs and the many, many others, I would need a scripture that point blank said, “Jesus is God the Son, co-equal with God the Father.” Why the mystery? Did God intend for us to not clearly understand how and who to worship? No. This division comes from that other mighty god, Satan. The one who is the god of this world.
ps, I never implied Jesus and Satan were equivalent beings. Jesus has the distinction of being the only being directly caused to exist by God. Satan is one of the “everything else” that was created by God through Jesus.
What I implied – nea, what I clearly said was that both Jesus and Satan are gods, but not the Almighty God. If Roo wants to cry, let him. I spoke scripturally correctly.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 28 2010,04:13) Answer: Because Mike and David are polytheists. They claim that they are not polytheists because they do not “worship” lesser gods. But the commandment also said that the people may not “serve” them.
Hi Roo,If I worked at McDonald's and had to serve customers, would I be in violation of God's law?
Don't you think He meant we should serve no other AS God?
You guys are the polytheists. You have three gods, but confusingly try to fit those three into a montheistic belief system. Many of us on HN have only the one God that Paul talked about – the Father.
Is the Father your only God, Roo? WJ? Paul?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ May 28 2010,05:42) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 27 2010,12:18) WorshippingJesus said to Mike: Quote You have to believe in Polytheism to hold on to your pagan belief that the Apostles taught there were other gods so that you can put Jesus in the same class.
Since the apostles served Jesus then they served a god which is in the same class as satan. The commandement prohibited the people to serve other gods.Mike has really dug a hole for himself. He won't be able to count on me to throw him a rope.
roo
JackSince they basically believe that anything that is “Mighty” is a god then I suppoose it won't be long before they acknowledge the President of the USA or Osama Bin Laden or even Hitler are gods, heck before long they may be calling each other gods since that is what they believe!
Their writings to each other may start something like this “to my friend and my god (theos) _, ….”
Of course I am kidding but it just shows how they say one thing but in practice do another. Jesus is “a god” but he is not “my god”!
The thing is they do not have any scripture where any servant of YHWH or Jesus ever called any being their God other than YHWH and Jesus in all 66 books. Which means that they are false gods, for the servants of the “One True God” serve him only!
WJ
Hi WJ,My God is the one Paul talked about. Our only God, the Father.
Is the Father your only God? Or do you have others?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ May 27 2010,16:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 26 2010,23:47)
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 27 2010,09:48)
JackExactly! Jesus nor the Apostles spoke the name of the Father either!
You were there, WJ? There is proof that YHWH was in early LXX MSS. How do you know for sure they didn't actually say “Yahweh” and it was later sustituted with “Lord” or “God”?
peace and love,
mikeMike
What difference does it make now?
What difference does it make now?
Do you know without a doubt that when reading the LXX in the synagogue Jesus didn't say “Yahweh” when reading the tetragammaton? Do you know that YHWH wasn't in the original salutations?
I know, I know. What difference does it make now?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ May 27 2010,16:10) “BEFORE ME THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED, AND AFTER ME THERE CONTINUED TO BE NONE”
Hi WJ,Yet the Hebrews knew Jehovah as the “God of gods”. Hmmm…How can that be if no other gods were formed? Do you think He meant no other “mighty ones”, or maybe He meant no other “God Almighty creator of heaven and earth's”.
Didn't Paul know that scripture when he called Satan the “god of this age”? Again, Hmmm… Why would Paul say that when he must have known there were no other gods formed? Why would God say we are not to have any other gods before Him when He knew there were no other gods?
Use your big boy reasoning, Keith.
peace and love,
mikeThe Father was in Jesus. Jesus said 'if you've seen me you've seen the Father”
” I am in the Father and the Father is in me, I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.So everything Jesus did on earth was as if God was on earth in physical form, and never before had that happened, (God in the past spoke in various other ways).. so it seems that as the world was created through the Son, Jesus was the means through which all was achieved. It didnt make Jesus before or while on earth God the Father because Jesus made that clear. He never said He was God but said God was in Him. He did his Fathers works.
This is how I understand it … I just want to learn not debate but it seems here more debating than learning which doesnt really help anyone. If I had to pick a side going by who was the kindest, more patient etc ..id go with non trinity.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 27 2010,21:10) Hey mike, Speaking about things that people do not refute,
It seems we are back to the matter of “gods” again that in my thread we discussed…but you never answered back….
im going to repost it here.
Hi Dennison,You are too tired again. (And you call me OLD!
)That is not my post. I don't remember if we discussed this, but that post isn't mine.
I will say, as you point out, the god of this world had to ask permission from God. So it's easy to see that one of the two is a mighty one, and the other is God. Or to lose the capitals: one is a god and the other is the god.
It's similar with Jesus. He said the Father is greater. He said the Father is the only true God. He wasn't implying that Satan wasn't real. He knows that Satan is a true god. And he wasn't implying that he is not real. He is the second mightiest being in existance, so he qualifies as a real god. But the Father is the only true God. Not Jesus. Not the Holy Spirit. Not some mixture of three. But the Father. Paul says the same thing. Only the Father is our God.
What do you think?
It's late and I'm tired. I like your style, though. Let's keep taking it scripture by scripture. We don't have to agree to share our thoughts.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 28 2010,15:39) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 27 2010,21:10) Hey mike, Speaking about things that people do not refute,
It seems we are back to the matter of “gods” again that in my thread we discussed…but you never answered back….
im going to repost it here.
Hi Dennison,You are too tired again. (And you call me OLD!
)That is not my post. I don't remember if we discussed this, but that post isn't mine.
I will say, as you point out, the god of this world had to ask permission from God. So it's easy to see that one of the two is a mighty one, and the other is God. Or to lose the capitals: one is a god and the other is the god.
It's similar with Jesus. He said the Father is greater. He said the Father is the only true God. He wasn't implying that Satan wasn't real. He knows that Satan is a true god. And he wasn't implying that he is not real. He is the second mightiest being in existance, so he qualifies as a real god. But the Father is the only true God. Not Jesus. Not the Holy Spirit. Not some mixture of three. But the Father. Paul says the same thing. Only the Father is our God.
What do you think?
It's late and I'm tired. I like your style, though. Let's keep taking it scripture by scripture. We don't have to agree to share our thoughts.
peace and love,
mike
lol……
Ya it was t8's post…. aghhhhhhhhhhh
Its just in that post, that i qouted from, had your name on it, and i been thinking all this time it was from you, when it was from t8, you just seconded him. grr to you old man grr to you again.Yes lol im very tired. (maybe im older than you muhahahaha or not)
and as im reading your reply, I have no recollection of what i wrote lol… so i have to go back and read what i posted and understand what you wrote. Let me do that now… lol
(reading) ok done!It depends how you define God. sometimes God is used to refer to a specific ability or atribute, such as The God of games. Usualy God is used as a title, the highest possible state of perfection in that ability or atribute.
Believing that our God is the God of everything would only leave Satan out of a Job title, and simply leaving him as Satan. But the Devil has rights to the earth and his own rights to persecute and tempt Gods people. He is the Father of lies.
Now its different with Jesus. Why because he does exactly what the Father does, His inhertince, or territory is everything, he comes to Rule your heart.
Let me show you this, Satan was a Cherbium, who was the second highest at one point in all that existed.
Yet Jesus always existed according to the bible, as Son or as God however you want to believe. but he existed.Yet in the bible when wrestling over the body of Moses, the Angel Michael had to rebuke the Devil by asking God to rebuke him.
Yet several times Jesus rejected Satan by his own authority… even when Jesus was being tempted he said, you shall not tempt the Lord thy God.
Satan wanted him to tempt him to prove he was the Son of God.I think the way people view the Trinity is wierd. Its like you view it as the Justice league or something. Its like your saying the Trinity is a team of Gods who are balanced, who are taking on the world and what not.
Take away the titles, and thats your answer.
For God to only be father is a limitation.If there was no pain, God wouldnt be the Healer,
If there was no sin, there is no need for a savoir,
if we werent created, than God wouldnt be father,Take away the titles, than you end up with simply God.
Cant God be our Mother as well? Wiser than our brothers? more passionte than our Sisters?
There i no mixture here.
Am i not a brother? a son of someone? am i not also a friend? A guide? a teachter? a Manager?
one day when i have a child, will i not be also a Father?Is this 8 differnt people mixed in one, or is it the one and the same Dennison with differnt roles in life?
I think the way people view trinity is weird….
this is not a superhero tag team. lol.its super late for me its 4am….
Lol we are human, our thoughts will never agree, by the fact that you are not me, and i am not you,
When i raise my left arm, you may raise your right.
When i smile, you might grunt.We think differnt, we see things differntly.
The only thing we can agree on, is our preception of things.
You see grass, i see grass. its the same observations of facts.Yet Jesus, raised his right arm, when God did, and did every single work according to what God would do. Nothing out of Jesus character was out of Gods. all his works were the same. he did not sin. If a Man cannot sin, what is he? Adam? or the second Adam? the third?
Adam the 3rd. lol
Its crazy to imagine someones cognictive thinking without sin, at all. without any error. A Perfect clean mind. Imagine such a majesty of character. This all ties back to Perfection. was enoch as perfect because he was translated…. i think not, because man cannot be perfect after Adam without Jesus. But enoch walked with God, which means he had a relationship with him, his heart was open to say yes to him.lol im tired now… sleep time.
Lets continue to share our thoughts with love, and respect,
honor, and humility.Good day,
Jedi knight!
Obi wan konobi (the old one)
mucho amor hermano,
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