Matthew 28:19 authentic or not?

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Can you understand what you wrote?
Mystery babylon

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 04 2010,20:50)

Hi WJ, Can you understand what you wrote? Mystery babylon

NH

Everything was done in the name of Jesus, yet we know that the Father and the Holy Spirit were also doing the works, do you deny this?

WJ

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 05 2010,07:26)

Well it doesn’t prove there is not a hint of the Trinity in the Bible, does it Mike? I have already answered you. Go back and read my opening post. I know what Jack means when he says you must have a comprehension problem for you ask questions then when you are given answers you just ask the same question again. Is it that you don’t like the answer or maybe you cannot refute it so somehow you think if you ask it again you will get a different answer? This seems to be a  characteristic of the JWs. David does this all the time. Hello!!!

Yikes WJ,

I don't have a comprehension problem until it comes to you and Jack, and even Paul skirting the issue.  Don't try the “run around” stuff on me, because I won't stop until your backed into a wall and have no choice but to answer with a real answer.  And I will continue to urge Terra and anyone else to do the same.  

Very simply, this is what I want to know.

You imply that Matt 28:19 mentions a trinity.  If you are saying only that it mentions three together, and that is your definition of trinity, then I agree.  It is no different than mentioning Abraham, Isaac and Jacob together.

But here is where you get tricky.  You say that while it doesn't prove the trinity doctrine, it proves a trinity is mentioned in the Bible.  So what?  A “trinity” of the sun, moon and stars are also mentioned, in that they are all mentioned together.  So my original question stands:

What do you think Matthew 28:19 proves?  Is it:

a.  That the Father, Son and Holy Spirit can be mentioned together in a sentence, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with you trinity doctrine?   or:

b.  The fact that the three are mentioned together somehow implies that they are equal members of a godhead?  Or at least gives a hint of this godhead.  If your answer is b., tell me how?

Which one is it?

And I'll be waiting for the answer to my other post yesterday in this thread.  You have avoided the “throne” question thrice now.

One last point:  You mentioned to Marty that the Holy Spirit had power and authority.  Where does Scripture say that the Holy Spirit has authority over anything?

peace and love,
mike

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 05 2010,12:48)

Quote (942767 @ May 04 2010,20:44) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 05 2010,12:39) Quote (942767 @ May 04 2010,19:58) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 05 2010,11:47) Quote (942767 @ May 04 2010,17:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 05 2010,03:14) Quote (942767 @ May 03 2010,21:14) Hi WJ: In the YLT Matthew 28:19: Quote Mat 28:19having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them — to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all, whatever I did command you,) and lo, I am with you all the days — till the full end of the age. Notice what is in Parenthesis.  Does this not mean that it was added by someone to add clarity? Love in Christ, Marty Marty Please explain what you might think is being clarified, because I do not see a difference! WJ Hi WJ: My point is that someone added that which is parenthesis.  Reading what was said by Jesus without that which is in parenthesis, the scripture would read: Matt 28:19 having gone, then, disciple all the nations, and lo, I am with you all the days–till the full end of the age. Love in Christ, Marty marty If your are implying that Young was putting the parenthesis there because the words did not belong then you are wrong and deny that every extant manuscript that we have has Matt 28:19 in its current form. Notice the YLT didn't remove the text and there is no commentary by him to claim it shouldn't be there. You are really grasping for straws! So I guess you have blotted it out of your Bible, is that right? WJ Hi WJ: The question is why in this translation, which is supposed to be a literal translation, this phrase is in parenthesis. Like I have stated before, it makes no sense for Jesus to say “All power over heaven and earth has been given unto me” and then to command that converts be baptized “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” And if he did say this, then why did not the Apostles baptize that way?  They didn't.  They baptized in the name of Jesus. Love in Christ, Marty Marty Jesus words does not contradict the Apostles actions in light of Matt 28:19. Jesus was making it clear that though he had all authority that there was still the Father and the Holy Spirit with the same authority, because all fullness is in Jesus. The are one! WJ WJ: You are not making any sense at all with your statement.  Jesus said:  “All power and authority has been given unto me”. Love in Christ, Marty LOL Marty are you saying the Father and the Holy Spirit does not have any authority? The name of Jesus is the one we use to invoke the Father and the Holy Spirit, or God if you will, because all fullness is in him and that is because he is God, one with the Father and the Holy Spirit! WJ

Hi WJ:

I am saying that God gave all power and authority to Jesus to accomplish His will which is the salvation of His Children.

Ultimately, we are all under the authority of God, but submitted to Him through the Lord Jesus.  It is the Word of God that Jesus watches over to perform.

It makes no sense for Jesus to say “all power and AUTHORITY has been given unto me, and then to command that the disciples baptize in the name of (AUTHORITY) of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. IT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 05 2010,12:52)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 04 2010,20:50) Hi WJ, Can you understand what you wrote? Mystery babylon NH Everything was done in the name of Jesus, yet we know that the Father and the Holy Spirit were also doing the works, do you deny this? WJ

Hi WJ,
When Jesus worked did you not know it was the Father doing the works by His Spirit in Christ?

It is basic stuff

[JustAskin]

Marty,

I am promoting you to '10-4'.

Mike, your White suit is already measured for you.
Just don't get fat before you get to put it on!

WJ, you say that Mike keeps asking the same questions because…, then what of you, and you been here for YEARS, and yet Mike is walking all over you.

You keep asking, when you already been shown, too.

So why the accusation?
Have you shown to the forum, where I have claimed wrongly against you?
Have you shown to the forum where you have prevailed over me?

WJ, why not, why do you just brush your unjustified claim aside when you are offered the chance for a glorious victory over your nemesis.

Perhaps because your claim had no substance. Perhaps you were hoping that another would come to your rescue?

WJ, God is slow to punish those who misrepresent Him, Him being Just, giving time, even, for that one to repent and come to know Him and Worship Him, the One True God, YHVH.
(p.s. When you are reading and come across the 'name' YHVH, in the flow, what do you read? and then read through: The LORD is my Name, YHVH is My Name. Are you silent, do you muffle your voice, your mental voice, do you say 'wy-ehtch-vee-ehtch is My Name'?)

[RokkaMan]

How can a human being's thinking encapsulate God into materialistic measures?

God is beyond a trinity, he is in EVERYTHING.

I believe his consciousness drives all life…

I believe his consciousness keeps this world on an axis, and makes it spin.

Jesus indeed is God in flesh.
The Holy Spirit is indeed God's spirit.

All three have the same personality.

Jesus can do everything God can do.

I agree with that trinitarian view…

But The Father is also the original source and above all

So i agree with that anti-trinitarian view.

But beyond that…it's foolish to try and encapsulate God in your mind as to what his being is.

That he's 3 in 1…

If God wanted, he can personify himself again, with a different identity. Would you then be so foolish as to then say he's 4 in 1??

Remember there was a time when people didn't know Jesus or the Holy Spirit. So the Jews knew God as only 1.

Now we see his manifestations as the Son and The Holy Spirit.

There can be more if he wanted. The seven spirits of God could all manifest in this world if he so wished.

So take your importance off his being, and put it back on his Love…which is manifested in Christ Jesus.

There's a famous saying millionaires like sharing

“You don't need to understand everything, to use everything!

So with that said, you don't need to understand everything about God, to use his word to better your life.

Let the division go…

A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand < words of Jesus.

[JustAskin]

RM,

Your deluded contribution is in keeping with many in this forum. Well done.

I told WJ and TT that it was ok to believe the Truth because others would come along with falsness so they needn't worry about leaving the forum desolate of hardline ungodliness.

[NickHassan]

Hi RM,
God was in Jesus.
But Jesus himself also existed.
He is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

[NickHassan]

Hi RM
God indeed manifested as Spirit in His Son.
That makes two.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2010,13:35)

I don't have a comprehension problem until it comes to you and Jack, and even Paul skirting the issue.  Don't try the “run around” stuff on me, because I won't stop until your backed into a wall and have no choice but to answer with a real answer.  And I will continue to urge Terra and anyone else to do the same.

What issue have I skirted?

[Elizabeth]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,08:42)

Hi All The accusation that the Trinity is not found in scriptures is false and though the word “Trinity” is not found in scriptures the concept is. ATs, (Anti-Trinitarians) love to call on this fallacy in order to discredit the truth found in the scriptures concerning the Trinitarian view. The Trinitarians believe that the view is scriptural and is based on the acceptance of the Holy Scriptures as a whole therefore accepting the whole council of God. Most ATs believe in a Trinity whether they admit it or not. If you ask them if they believe in the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit and are they separate in person or being, they will claim yes. The difference is they do not believe that they all share the same attributes as God; even though there is no evidence that there is any difference in the three in their respective nature or ontology. Those who claim the Holy Spirit is the Father, have a long uphill climb Biblically to prove their theory based on the number of scriptures mentioning their separate identities. Matthew  28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: KJV Go therefore* and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, NKJV Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.  NLT Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in* the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, NIV Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, NASB Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, NWT The above translations all render Matt 28:19 the same. As far as I can tell all the translations on BGW.com and BLB.org translate it the same way. Even the NWT which is notably a version apposed to the Trinity and also known for its obvious biased paraphrase of the Greek text, translates it the same. It has been claimed that Eusebius of Caesarea, c. 263–339 had an original copy of Matthew which did not contain the verse. However there is no such evidence and can only be considered as a fabrication made by the ATs. It would also contradict the fact that Eusebius was a prominent figure at the Council of Nicene. Not to mention his own confession in his personal Letter to the Church of Cesarea… We believe in One God, the Father Almighty, the Maker of all things visible and invisible. And in One Lord Jesus Christ, the Word of God, God from God, Light from Light, Life from Life, Son Only-begotten, first-born of every creature, before all the ages, begotten from the Father, by whom also all things were made; who for our salvation was made flesh, and lived among men, and suffered, and rose again the third day, and ascended to the Father, and will come again in glory to judge quick and dead, And we believe also in One Holy Ghost; believing each of These to be and to exist, the Father truly Father, and the Son truly Son, and the Holy Ghost truly Holy Ghost, as also our Lord, sending forth His disciples for the preaching, said, “Go, teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” Concerning whom we confidently affirm that so we hold, and so we think, and so we have held aforetime, and we maintain this faith unto the death, anathematizing every godless heresy. That this we have ever thought from our heart and soul, from the time we recollect ourselves, and now think and say in truth, before God Almighty and our Lord Jesus Christ do we witness, being able by proofs to show and to convince you, that, even in times past, such has been our belief and preaching.21 (emphasis mine) Source Not to mention that many Church Fathers quoted the verse like Ignatius (c. 35–107), Irenaeus (c. 130–200), Tertullian (c. 160–225) to mention a few. Others alluded to the three. There is overwhelming evidence that proves that Matthew 28:19 is authentic including the fact it is found in every extant Greek Biblical manuscript… It is not uncommon to hear the notion that the tripartite phrase in Matthew 28:19 is suspect on text critical grounds, but when one consults the data itself, such claims are entirely unfounded. Every extant Greek biblical manuscript that contains this verse of Matthew has the tripartite phrase.13 One would expect that if, indeed, Matthew’s original (whether one presumes a Greek or Hebrew original, or both) did not include the tripartite phrase, that at least some early witnesses to this original would have remained. But not one single witness, early or late, gives evidence that 28:19 ever existed without the tripartite phrase. When we look at the versions the same situation obtains. The Syriac Peshitta (in all of its extant witnesses), the Vulgate, the Coptic, the Slovak versions—all have the tripartite phrase. Plummer’s conclusion is therefore warranted: It is incredible that an interpolation of this character can have been made in the text of Mt. without leaving a trace of its unauthenticity in a single MS. or Version. The evidence for its genuineness is overwhelming.14 (Emphasis mine)  Source As if that is not enough damaging evidence against the ATs, the nail in the coffin is the Didache contains the tripartite phrase.. Ploughman, apparently following F. C. Conybeare, has questioned the authenticity of Matthew 28:19, but most scholars of New Testament textual criticism accept the authenticity of the passage, since “there are no variant manuscripts regarding the formula, and the extant form of the passage is attested in the Didache[72] and other patristic works of the first and second centuries: Ignatius,[73] Tertullian,[74] Hippolytus,[75] Cyprian,[76] and Gregory Thaumaturgus”. ‘Wikipedia Though the date of the Didache is debated, most scholars would put it between 90 and 120 CE with some suggesting an even earlier date. The Trinity is here to stay, and Matthew 28:19 is unambiguous evidence that the early Apostles and Church Fathers believed in a Trinity. Unfortunately for the ATs the evidence overwhelmingly support the Holy Scriptures as a Trinitarian book, even if they do not believe the three are “One”, they must accept this Bible truth or get their white out and blot out the verse in their Christology. Anyone care to comment? Blessings WJ

Paul tells us only God is immortal.
1 Tim. 1:17 “Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.”
1 Tim. 6:16 “Who only has immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”
The bible also speaks of only one God.
Ex. 8:10 “… know that there is none like unto the LORD (Jehovah) God.”
Deut. 4:35”…know that the LORD (Jehovah) he is God, there is none else beside him”.
Is. 40:13 “Who has directed the spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?”
v. 25 “ To whom then wi
ll ye liken me, or shall I be equal? Saith the Holy One “.
Is. 45:18 “For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he has established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.”
Is. 46:9 “Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, there is none like me.”
Mark 12:32“…well, Master, thou has said the truth, for there is one God and there is none other but he.”
1 Cor. 8:4 “… and that there is none other God but one”.
v. 5 “ For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many “.)
v. 6 “ But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”.

Against these clear scriptures, show me “ONE” clear scripture that says God is three in one, by clear I mean, no guessing to the meaning of the scripture because there is no guessing what these scriptures say.

Georg

[JustAskin]

Hi Everyone,

I'm getting a little upset that noone is responding to WJ's accusation concerning me… WJ was hoping for a flood of support but he is getting disapointed – and so am i – for him!

If he ceases to exist them so will I – do you wanna see me disapper? – please provide even a smatter if only that.

I only exist because he does….

[terraricca]

Quote (Elizabeth @ May 06 2010,22:55)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,08:42) Hi All The accusation that the Trinity is not found in scriptures is false and though the word “Trinity” is not found in scriptures the concept is. ATs, (Anti-Trinitarians) love to call on this fallacy in order to discredit the truth found in the scriptures concerning the Trinitarian view. The Trinitarians believe that the view is scriptural and is based on the acceptance of the Holy Scriptures as a whole therefore accepting the whole council of God. Most ATs believe in a Trinity whether they admit it or not. If you ask them if they believe in the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit and are they separate in person or being, they will claim yes. The difference is they do not believe that they all share the same attributes as God; even though there is no evidence that there is any difference in the three in their respective nature or ontology. Those who claim the Holy Spirit is the Father, have a long uphill climb Biblically to prove their theory based on the number of scriptures mentioning their separate identities. Matthew  28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: KJV Go therefore* and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, NKJV Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.  NLT Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in* the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, NIV Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, NASB Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, NWT The above translations all render Matt 28:19 the same. As far as I can tell all the translations on BGW.com and BLB.org translate it the same way. Even the NWT which is notably a version apposed to the Trinity and also known for its obvious biased paraphrase of the Greek text, translates it the same. It has been claimed that Eusebius of Caesarea, c. 263–339 had an original copy of Matthew which did not contain the verse. However there is no such evidence and can only be considered as a fabrication made by the ATs. It would also contradict the fact that Eusebius was a prominent figure at the Council of Nicene. Not to mention his own confession in his personal Letter to the Church of Cesarea… We believe in One God, the Father Almighty, the Maker of all things visible and invisible. And in One Lord Jesus Christ, the Word of God, God from God, Light from Light, Life from Life, Son Only-begotten, first-born of every creature, before all the ages, begotten from the Father, by whom also all things were made; who for our salvation was made flesh, and lived among men, and suffered, and rose again the third day, and ascended to the Father, and will come again in glory to judge quick and dead, And we believe also in One Holy Ghost; believing each of These to be and to exist, the Father truly Father, and the Son truly Son, and the Holy Ghost truly Holy Ghost, as also our Lord, sending forth His disciples for the preaching, said, “Go, teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” Concerning whom we confidently affirm that so we hold, and so we think, and so we have held aforetime, and we maintain this faith unto the death, anathematizing every godless heresy. That this we have ever thought from our heart and soul, from the time we recollect ourselves, and now think and say in truth, before God Almighty and our Lord Jesus Christ do we witness, being able by proofs to show and to convince you, that, even in times past, such has been our belief and preaching.21 (emphasis mine) Source Not to mention that many Church Fathers quoted the verse like Ignatius (c. 35–107), Irenaeus (c. 130–200), Tertullian (c. 160–225) to mention a few. Others alluded to the three. There is overwhelming evidence that proves that Matthew 28:19 is authentic including the fact it is found in every extant Greek Biblical manuscript… It is not uncommon to hear the notion that the tripartite phrase in Matthew 28:19 is suspect on text critical grounds, but when one consults the data itself, such claims are entirely unfounded. Every extant Greek biblical manuscript that contains this verse of Matthew has the tripartite phrase.13 One would expect that if, indeed, Matthew’s original (whether one presumes a Greek or Hebrew original, or both) did not include the tripartite phrase, that at least some early witnesses to this original would have remained. But not one single witness, early or late, gives evidence that 28:19 ever existed without the tripartite phrase. When we look at the versions the same situation obtains. The Syriac Peshitta (in all of its extant witnesses), the Vulgate, the Coptic, the Slovak versions—all have the tripartite phrase. Plummer’s conclusion is therefore warranted: It is incredible that an interpolation of this character can have been made in the text of Mt. without leaving a trace of its unauthenticity in a single MS. or Version. The evidence for its genuineness is overwhelming.14 (Emphasis mine)  Source As if that is not enough damaging evidence against the ATs, the nail in the coffin is the Didache contains the tripartite phrase.. Ploughman, apparently following F. C. Conybeare, has questioned the authenticity of Matthew 28:19, but most scholars of New Testament textual criticism accept the authenticity of the passage, since “there are no variant manuscripts regarding the formula, and the extant form of the passage is attested in the Didache[72] and other patristic works of the first and second centuries: Ignatius,[73] Tertullian,[74] Hippolytus,[75] Cyprian,[76] and Gregory Thaumaturgus”. ‘Wikipedia Though the date of the Didache is debated, most scholars would put it between 90 and 120 CE with some suggesting an even earlier date. The Trinity is here to stay, and Matthew 28:19 is unambiguous evidence that the early Apostles and Church Fathers believed in a Trinity. Unfortunately for the ATs the evidence overwhelmingly support the Holy Scriptures as a Trinitarian book, even if they do not believe the three are “One”, they must accept this Bible truth or get their white out and blot out the verse in their Christology. Anyone care to comment? Blessings WJ Paul tells us only God is immortal. 1 Tim. 1:17  “Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.” 1 Tim. 6:16  “Who only has immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.” The bible also speaks of only one God. Ex. 8:10    “… know that there is none like unto the LORD (Jehovah) God.” Deut. 4:35”…know that the LORD (Jeho vah) he is God, there is none else beside him”. Is. 40:13   “Who has directed the spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught him?”               v. 25  “ To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? Saith the Holy One “. Is. 45:18  “For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he has established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.” Is. 46:9  “Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, there is none like me.” Mark 12:32“…well, Master, thou has said the truth, for there is one God and there is none other but he.” 1 Cor. 8:4 “… and that there is none other God but one”. v. 5  “ For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many “.) v. 6     “ But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him”. Against these clear scriptures, show me “ONE” clear scripture that says God is three in one, by clear I mean, no guessing to the meaning of the scripture because there is no guessing what these scriptures say. Georg

georg

answer me one question;
Mt 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

why would Jesus tell his disciples to teach the nation to obey everything he as commanded ??
another question ;why wen the apostles wen away none apply what it says in verse 19.

are all his apostles desobediente??

may be it was change ;and should be ;;Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in MY name.

[GeneBalthrop]

Terraricca…………Jesus taught ONLY what GOD TOLD HIM TO, remember when He said “I HAVE GIVEN THEM (YOUR) WORDS”. Georg is right in what He posted Jesus is sub-servant to GOD the FATHER both then and now. Jesus' Love and always seeking to Please the Father does no go away because the Father gave Him authority over things T. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 07 2010,02:49)

Terraricca…………Jesus taught ONLY what GOD TOLD HIM TO, remember when He said “I HAVE GIVEN THEM (YOUR) WORDS”. Georg is right in what He posted Jesus is sub-servant to GOD the FATHER both then and now. Jesus' Love and always seeking to Please the Father does no go away because the Father gave Him authority over things T. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………..gene

gene
you right but,
i did not put in doub the scriptures that reflect the spirit of Christ .

only Mat 28;19 and in part only

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 06 2010,19:18)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 05 2010,13:35) I don't have a comprehension problem until it comes to you and Jack, and even Paul skirting the issue.  Don't try the “run around” stuff on me, because I won't stop until your backed into a wall and have no choice but to answer with a real answer.  And I will continue to urge Terra and anyone else to do the same.   What issue have I skirted?

Hi Paul,

You bailed on the Hebrews 1 debate just when it was getting down to the heart of the matter.  Like WJ and thinker always do in the open threads.  And when I ask a direct question, and they try to skirt the issue with a non-answer, I ask it again.  Then they say I have a comprehension problem.  How fair is that?  

Just answer the question with a real answer or say, “I don't know”.

Anytime you want to continue the Hebrews 1 thread, start by answering my last post to you. And I think you were contemplating finally explaining how you could prove that Paul thought Jesus was God Almighty. Add the Timothy verses that george just quoted to my list.

peace and love,
mike

[942767]

Hi RockAman:

You say:

Quote

Jesus can do everything God can do.

Not a true statement.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Is 1:18]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 07 2010,13:53)

You bailed on the Hebrews 1 debate just when it was getting down to the heart of the matter.

No. As I explain in my last post to you on the Hebrews 1 topic I have other commitments at present. I have 4 kids under 10 to look after. I have a job with a very heavy workload. I have a marriage to maintain. I have church commitments. I've been engaged in other theological discussion outside of the forum. I also have other interests outside of the theological realm. You may have a lot of discretionary time Mike, but I don't. You'll just have to deal with the fact that others have fuller lives than yourself.

Quote

Like WJ and thinker always do in the open threads.  And when I ask a direct question, and they try to skirt the issue with a non-answer, I ask it again.

I think the record will show that I answered most if not all of your questions. While you cherry picked.

Quote

Then they say I have a comprehension problem.  How fair is that?

I'll reserve comment here. I was going to make a joke about “64” being a reference to your IQ but that would likely contravene the forums offense guidelines so I'll leave it…

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
You said it so how is it less offensive your way?
Intellegence has never been a huge advantage for any seeking the way of Christ.

It is the biggest drawback as you have to become as a little child.
Would you teach your children God is a trinity or would you let others do so?

[Author]

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