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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2011,19:07) Btw, I was expecting an apology for accusing me of leaving that part out when I didn't.
You are not getting an appology Mike because you have left out part of it several times you quoted it and you misrepresent the Trinitarian.Here is the entire quote again…
The most probable opinion, however, seems to be that the terms “in the name of Jesus”, “in the name of Christ”, either refer to baptism in the faith taught by Christ, or are employed to distinguish Christian baptism from that of John the Precursor. It seems altogether unlikely that immediately after Christ had solemnly promulgated the trinitarian formula of baptism, the Apostles themselves would have substituted another. IN FACT, THE WORDS OF ST..PAUL (ACTS 19) IMPLY QUITE PLAINLY THAT THEY DID NOT. For, when some Christians at Ephesus declared that they had never heard of the Holy Ghost, the Apostle asks: “In whom then were you baptized?” This text certainly seems to declare that St. Paul took it for granted that the Ephesians must have heard the name of the Holy Ghost when the sacramental formula of baptism was pronounced over them.
Do you see it Mike. The source is looking at it from the perspective of the Apostles and says… IN FACT, THE WORDS OF ST..PAUL (ACTS 19) IMPLY QUITE PLAINLY THAT THEY DID NOT. (They did not do differently than Jesus words in Matt 28:19)
So the writer above is in no way telling you he is in doubt of Matthew 28:19 because he says that they did obey the commission in the tripart name. He also says “This text certainly seems to declare that St. Paul took it for granted that the Ephesians must have heard the name of the Holy Ghost when the sacramental formula of baptism was pronounced over them
If he is a Trinitarian why would he reject Jesus words or doubt them in Matt 28:19? If he is a Trinitarian and has doubt he would doubt the way the Apostes baptised since we see that some baptised in the name of Jesus and some didn't.
The point is he didn't have doubt about Jesus words or the Apostles and the context brings that out.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,12:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2011,19:07) Btw, I was expecting an apology for accusing me of leaving that part out when I didn't.
You are not getting an appology Mike because you have left out part of it several times you quoted it and you misrepresent the Trinitarian.If he is a Trinitarian why would he reject Jesus words or doubt them in Matt 28:19? If he is a Trinitarian and has doubt he would doubt the way the Apostes baptised since we see that some baptised and some didn't.
The point is he didn't have doubt about Jesus words and the context brings that out.
WJ
WJsince you know so much ,could you tell me the name of the holy spirit ??since you believe he or it is a person.
could you give me the name of God in witch we have to be baptized??
and witch name do we have to use of Jesus,Christ or THE WORD of God, ??
Pierre
Quote (david @ Mar. 08 2011,00:58) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 07 2011,11:00) Three having the definite article and sharing a singular name is “a Trinity” no matter how you look at it.
Sure.
Hi DavidThanks for admitting that there is “a Trinity” mentioned in the Bible!
WJ
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 10 2011,13:57) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,12:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2011,19:07) Btw, I was expecting an apology for accusing me of leaving that part out when I didn't.
You are not getting an appology Mike because you have left out part of it several times you quoted it and you misrepresent the Trinitarian.If he is a Trinitarian why would he reject Jesus words or doubt them in Matt 28:19? If he is a Trinitarian and has doubt he would doubt the way the Apostes baptised since we see that some baptised and some didn't.
The point is he didn't have doubt about Jesus words and the context brings that out.
WJ
WJsince you know so much ,could you tell me the name of the holy spirit ??since you believe he or it is a person.
could you give me the name of God in witch we have to be baptized??
and witch name do we have to use of Jesus,Christ or THE WORD of God, ??
Pierre
Already answered. But I will tell you what if you can answer my quesiton than I will answer yours again…What is the “Name” of the Father and where in the NT is that name mentioned even once by Jesus or his followers?
WJ
Marty said:
Quote Paul cannot baptize anyone with Holy Spirit. This is an exclusive right and position of Jesus Christ my Lord, and so, whether or not the word “water” is used by the Apostle Paul when he says he baptized those whom he mentions in 1 Co. 1 that is what is implied.
Marty,What Bible are you reading? Peter baptized someone with the Holy Spirit by laying his hands on him and Simon the sorcerer coveted the same authority (Acts 8). This is why Paul was glad that he had not baptized the Corinthians because he did not want thhem to exalt him to the position of Christ. Were the Corinthians canonizing men because they baptized with water? No way! He baptized a few with the holy spirit and was subject ot being camonized for it. This is why he thanked God that he had not baptized any of them.
I would agree with you that no one today has that power. There is no baptism of the Holy Spirit today.
Quote He said: CAN ANY MAN FORBID WATER and the answer is no, because then he commanded them to baptized in the name of the Lord.
Marty,The word “command” reflects translator bias. The Greek word is “protasso” which means “to arrange beforehand.” The prefix 'pro' simply means “before.' The word 'tasso' simply means 'to arrange.' It is used in Acts 13:48 which says, “And as many as were arranged for eternal life believed.”
The narrative says only that Peter arranged for Cornelius and his house to be baptized. Peter did NOT require them to be baptized with water. He permitted it as a demonstration to the people that all nations of men had now been accepted into the covenant.
The Greek word indicating a commanded is 'paraggello' and is used in verse 42, “And He commanded us to preach the gospel.”
It is most unfortunate that the translators did this. They were reading their requisite for water baptism into the text. After God had CLEANSED all men there was no more need for the ritual bathing. Peter only permitted Cornelius and his house to be baptized as a demonstration to the people that all men were now included into the covenant. And he ]arranged for it to be done.
My daughter goes to Bible College and she is learning a lot of things. This last break she was home and she told me that she has learned that erroneous translation is the cause of a lot of confusion among Christians. I replied to her saying, “This is because the translators are human and cannot always avoid reading their doctrinal presuppositions into a text when they translate.” Acts 10:48 is an example. Peter did not 'command' Cornelius and his house to be baptized. He allowed it and prearranged it.
Quote Jack, you are going to mislead people with this understanding. Water baptism is something that every believer should do in obedience to God's Word.
The translators have misled the people. They translated the Greek 'protasso' to fit their views regarding baptism.And you are misleading the people by your suggestion that there is more that must be done in addition to God's CLEANSING us. You need to heed the solemn warning in Hebrews 6. The apostle warned them not to return to the elementary things and baptism is among the list of elementary things to be forsaken (Hebrews 6:1-6).
WHY WOULD THE RITUAL BATHING BE NECESSARY AFTER GOD HAD CLEANSED ALL MEN?
YOU CANNOT PROVE THAT JESUS COMMANDED WATER BAPTISM. HE SAID NOTHING ABOUT IT AS A REQUIREMENT BEFORE. WHY ALL OF A SUDDEN BEFORE HE DEPARTS DOES HE COMMAND WATER BAPTISM. SINCE YOU CANNOT PROVE THAT JESUS COMMANDED WATER BAPTISM YOU CANNOT MAKE A DISCONNECT BETWEEN WHAT JESUS SAID AND WHAT THE APOSTLES DID AND THUS CONCLUDE THAT WHAT JESUS SAID IS NOT AUTHENTIC. PERIOD!
ON THE ISSUE OF BAPTISM YOU HAVE BEEN MISLED BY THE CATHOLIC CHHURCH.
Jack
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,04:57) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,12:48) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,04:28) Marty The Holy Spirit “hears, speaks, thinks, searches, teaches, grieves, feels, loves, and yet you guys say he is not a person?
If he is not a person then what is he?WJ
Hi WJ,So glad you asked (Matt.7:7)… “He” is YHVH! …(2Tm.2:13)
EDYHVH Is a name!
The question was…
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,04:28) The Holy Spirit “hears, speaks, thinks, searches, teaches, grieves, feels, loves, and yet you guys say he is not a person?
If he is not a person then “WHAT IS HE?WJ
Once again, a name by itself does not “identify” what he is.WJ
Hi WJ,How about a “title” then? …God
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,05:22) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,13:18) WJ said: Quote The Holy Spirit “hears, speaks, thinks, searches, teaches, grieves, feels, loves, and yet you guys say he is not a person? If he is not a person then what is he?
And He does not speak on His own authority.Jack
Amen! JackWhat about that Marty and ED? If the Holy Spirit is the Father than why can't he speak on his own authority?
WJ
Hi WJ,What verse is Jack referring to?
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,14:24) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,04:57) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,12:48) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,04:28) Marty The Holy Spirit “hears, speaks, thinks, searches, teaches, grieves, feels, loves, and yet you guys say he is not a person?
If he is not a person then what is he?WJ
Hi WJ,So glad you asked (Matt.7:7)… “He” is YHVH! …(2Tm.2:13)
EDYHVH Is a name!
The question was…
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,04:28) The Holy Spirit “hears, speaks, thinks, searches, teaches, grieves, feels, loves, and yet you guys say he is not a person?
If he is not a person then “WHAT IS HE?WJ
Once again, a name by itself does not “identify” what he is.WJ
Hi WJ,How about a “title” then? …God
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Thank you!So you say “what the Holy Spirit is”, is God!
Good?
Now explain why Jesus says that the “Three”, The (definite article) Father, The (definite article) Son, and The (definite article) Holy Spirit share a singular name if the Holy Spirit is the Father?
Why are the scriptures replete with examples of the Holy Spirit being “another” and not the Father or the Son?
WJ
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,14:28) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,05:22) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,13:18) WJ said: Quote The Holy Spirit “hears, speaks, thinks, searches, teaches, grieves, feels, loves, and yet you guys say he is not a person? If he is not a person then what is he?
And He does not speak on His own authority.Jack
Amen! JackWhat about that Marty and ED? If the Holy Spirit is the Father than why can't he speak on his own authority?
WJ
Hi WJ,What verse is Jack referring to?
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: FOR HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF; BUT WHATSOEVER HE SHALL HEAR, THAT SHALL HE SPEAK: and he will shew you things to come. John 13:16WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,13:06) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 10 2011,13:57) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,12:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2011,19:07) Btw, I was expecting an apology for accusing me of leaving that part out when I didn't.
You are not getting an appology Mike because you have left out part of it several times you quoted it and you misrepresent the Trinitarian.If he is a Trinitarian why would he reject Jesus words or doubt them in Matt 28:19? If he is a Trinitarian and has doubt he would doubt the way the Apostes baptised since we see that some baptised and some didn't.
The point is he didn't have doubt about Jesus words and the context brings that out.
WJ
WJsince you know so much ,could you tell me the name of the holy spirit ??since you believe he or it is a person.
could you give me the name of God in witch we have to be baptized??
and witch name do we have to use of Jesus,Christ or THE WORD of God, ??
Pierre
Already answered. But I will tell you what if you can answer my quesiton than I will answer yours again…What is the “Name” of the Father and where in the NT is that name mentioned even once by Jesus or his followers?
WJ
WJwere did you already answer that question ,i never see it
please show me ,
then i will answer your question
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 10 2011,14:50) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,13:06) Already answered. But I will tell you what if you can answer my quesiton than I will answer yours again… What is the “Name” of the Father and where in the NT is that name mentioned even once by Jesus or his followers?
WJ
were did you already answer that question ,i never see itplease show me ,
then i will answer your question
Pierre
It is in this thread in a post to Mike.Pay attention to what you read please so we do not have to repeat ourselves over and over.
When you find it then I expect an answer and scriptural proof to my question.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,13:55) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 10 2011,14:50) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,13:06) Already answered. But I will tell you what if you can answer my quesiton than I will answer yours again… What is the “Name” of the Father and where in the NT is that name mentioned even once by Jesus or his followers?
WJ
were did you already answer that question ,i never see itplease show me ,
then i will answer your question
Pierre
It is in this thread in a post to Mike.Pay attention to what you read please so we do not have to repeat ourselves over and over.
When you find it then I expect an answer and scriptural proof to my question.
WJ
WJ88 pages at my speed you may have your answer right after you retire or i have passed away
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 10 2011,15:01) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,13:55) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 10 2011,14:50) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,13:06) Already answered. But I will tell you what if you can answer my quesiton than I will answer yours again… What is the “Name” of the Father and where in the NT is that name mentioned even once by Jesus or his followers?
WJ
were did you already answer that question ,i never see itplease show me ,
then i will answer your question
Pierre
It is in this thread in a post to Mike.Pay attention to what you read please so we do not have to repeat ourselves over and over.
When you find it then I expect an answer and scriptural proof to my question.
WJ
WJ88 pages at my speed you may have your answer right after you retire or i have passed away
Pierre
It was recent Peirre.WJ
WJ
is it this your respond;that the holy spirit is also Christ (on first page)in reference to Mat 28;18 ??
Paul establish her that there is no greater authority then God ,and all have to submit to it;and so does Christ wen he turn himself to God after all is completed what was ask of him;
Ro 8:7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.
Ro 10:3 Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.so as i say before scriptures says to be baptized in Jesus name,so this one is no contest,in the name of the father here i will not contest it is clear that the father was the name in witch Jesus was preaching,
now the problem lays with the last one of verse Mat 28;19 the holy spirit;
1)is the holy spirit Jesus ,does Jesus claim to be the holy spirit ;NO
2)is the holy spirit a person ?.NO because it can be a thing spread around ,lift up things move individuals,teach,make you remind things,give power to some,make you talk in different languages,protect you from snake bides,power to remove demon,ect.
3)so as the holy spirit be anything else than the holy spirit ? NO4) why is it called holy ?
5) why is a spirit ? and wich spirit is it ?
6) to whom does that spirit belong?so if you want to make the trinity stand on Mat;28 ;19 last segment and only that segment ,Please answer all the questions.
with scriptures if possible.Ac 1:8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
Ac 6:8 Now Stephen, a man full of God’s grace and power, did great wonders and miraculous signs among the people.
Ac 8:10 and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is the divine power known as the Great Power.”
Ac 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.Ro 1:4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ro 15:19 by the power of signs and miracles, through the power of the Spirit. So from Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel of Christ.
Eph 3:16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being,
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
1Th 1:5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and with deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.2Ti 1:7 For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.
2Ti 1:8 So do not be ashamed to testify about our Lord, or ashamed of me his prisoner. But join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God,Jude 1:25 to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
1Pe 4:11 If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God.
Rev 11:17 saying:
“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
Rev 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
“Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.those are a few of my scriptures to back up my toughts.
Pierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,06:36) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,14:24) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,04:57) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,12:48) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,04:28) Marty The Holy Spirit “hears, speaks, thinks, searches, teaches, grieves, feels, loves, and yet you guys say he is not a person?
If he is not a person then what is he?WJ
Hi WJ,So glad you asked (Matt.7:7)… “He” is YHVH! …(2Tm.2:13)
EDYHVH Is a name!
The question was…
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,04:28) The Holy Spirit “hears, speaks, thinks, searches, teaches, grieves, feels, loves, and yet you guys say he is not a person?
If he is not a person then “WHAT IS HE?WJ
Once again, a name by itself does not “identify” what he is.WJ
Hi WJ,How about a “title” then? …God
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Thank you!So you say “what the Holy Spirit is”, is God!
Good?
Now explain why Jesus says that the “Three”, The (definite article) Father, The (definite article) Son, and The (definite article) Holy Spirit share a singular name if the Holy Spirit is the Father?
Why are the scriptures replete with examples of the Holy Spirit being “another” and not the Father or the Son?
WJ
Hi WJ,Quote Now explain why Jesus says that the “Three”, The (definite article) Father, The (definite article) Son, and The (definite article) Holy Spirit share a singular name if the Holy Spirit is the Father? The answer to this question is what my Post is all about.
Quote Why are the scriptures replete with examples of the Holy Spirit being “another” and not the Father or the Son? This is a 'SPUN' question! The error is in your question, not any answer you might expect to here!
That's an easy question; but you never asked me before, have you?
Jesus’ Name in Hebrew יהשוע means: “YÄ is salvation” ([יה]+[ישע]=[יהשוע]).
“The Savior”(117) is “God The Father”(117) (Isaiah 45:21),
YHVH saves us with his spirit through his son!The name Father is [יה] YÄ,
the name of the son is [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă,
and the name of HolySpirit is [ישע] “SALVATION”!How do we know this is the HolySpirit's name?
1. רוח (ruach) rū-äkh means “spirit” or “wind”. The SOUND
of wind is… wsshhh, which is very similar to ישע (yesha) yəshä2. Know for certain “God the Father” saves us with his “HolySpirit”; here's the Scripture…
Rom.8:11 But if The Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you,
he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies
by his [HolySpirit] that dwelleth in you.3. ALL were baptized in the name of [יהשוע המשיח] YÄ-shü-ă hä Mäh-shē-äkh
And this explanation is consistent with all the other Scriptures!
[Note: The HolySpirit name is (יהוה) YHVH] (John 4:24)Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgPeirre
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 10 2011,15:43) so if you want to make the trinity stand on Mat;28 ;19 last segment and only that segment ,Please answer all the questions.
What are you talking about?The entire scripture tells us the The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit shares a “singular name”.
Now are you going to answer my question or was you telling the truth when you said after I answered yours you would answer mine?
What is the “Name” of the Father and where in the NT is that name mentioned even once by Jesus or his followers?
WJ
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,16:15) Quote Why are the scriptures replete with examples of the Holy Spirit being “another” and not the Father or the Son? This is a 'SPUN' question! The error is in your question, not any answer you might expect to here!
EdNo it isn't. You haven't explained Jesus words. The three are distinct persons as the definite article and singular name proves.
Why has Jesus mentioned the Three and not just the two if the Holy Spirit is the Father?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,06:42) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,14:28) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,05:22) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,13:18) WJ said: Quote The Holy Spirit “hears, speaks, thinks, searches, teaches, grieves, feels, loves, and yet you guys say he is not a person? If he is not a person then what is he?
And He does not speak on His own authority.Jack
Amen! JackWhat about that Marty and ED? If the Holy Spirit is the Father than why can't he speak on his own authority?
WJ
Hi WJ,What verse is Jack referring to?
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: FOR HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF; BUT WHATSOEVER HE SHALL HEAR, THAT SHALL HE SPEAK: and he will shew you things to come. John 13:16WJ
Hi WJ,It's nice to see you “edited” your Post!
It PROVES you can change your mind! NOW…The word authority is NOT in John 16:13; is it?
Are you going to give a 'spun' excuse or admit it isn't there?
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,16:27) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,06:42) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,14:28) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,05:22) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,13:18) WJ said: Quote The Holy Spirit “hears, speaks, thinks, searches, teaches, grieves, feels, loves, and yet you guys say he is not a person? If he is not a person then what is he?
And He does not speak on His own authority.Jack
Amen! JackWhat about that Marty and ED? If the Holy Spirit is the Father than why can't he speak on his own authority?
WJ
Hi WJ,What verse is Jack referring to?
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: FOR HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF; BUT WHATSOEVER HE SHALL HEAR, THAT SHALL HE SPEAK: and he will shew you things to come. John 13:16WJ
Hi WJ,It's nice to see you “edited” your Post!
It PROVES you can change your mind! NOW…The word authority is NOT in John 16:13; is it?
Are you going to give a 'spun' excuse or admit it isn't there?
HA HA ED.If the Holy Spirit can only speak what he sees and hears then he is speaking by “anothers” authority is he not?
Why can't you see that the Father doesn't need to hear or see anything before he has to speak?
In the context of the verse the Holy Spirit takes from Jesus and gives to us.
How do you explain God having to take from Jesus to give to us? How do you explain Jesus sending the Father?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,15:26) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,16:15) Quote Why are the scriptures replete with examples of the Holy Spirit being “another” and not the Father or the Son? This is a 'SPUN' question! The error is in your question, not any answer you might expect to here!
EdNo it isn't. You haven't explained Jesus words. The three are distinct persons as the definite article and singular name proves.
Why has Jesus mentioned the Three and not just the two if the Holy Spirit is the Father?
WJ
WJbut i have answered you in my respond ;
last segment means “and the holy spirit”
Pierre
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