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Hi t8,
You did not answer the question so to ask again.
Were the works done by Jesus, or the Spirit of God in him?
Nick, scripture is full of references to things that Jesus said and did. So I am going to have to go with scripture. e.g., Jesus washed his disciples feet. As for what he said, well he said a lot of things. And yes it was Jesus saying these. Look at the context, he mentions his Father, so he is clearly saying these things.
- I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me.
- If I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the Kingdom of God has arrived for you.
- I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
- Father, forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.
- I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.
Clearly Jesus is speaking in these verses as well as many others not mentioned here. But before you start throwing accusations at me about not listening to the Spirit, take this into consideration.
For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak.
Now notice that it says that God commanded Jesus on what to say. Commanded who? Jesus. And Jesus did the Father’s will, even till the point of death. He even asked if the cup could be removed, but added that it was not his will but God’s will that would be done.
Nick, I do not want to remove Jesus as you seem to have done. Jesus is mere flesh to you and thus counts for nothing. To me, he is the son of the living God, the messiah, and lord. Jesus said that those who deny him he would deny before the Father.
but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven.
Clearly Jesus said those words because he said: “my Father”.
What you are doing Nick is removing Jesus as being important and concentrating on Christ or the anointing. However, the anointing as you say moved the prophets. So Jesus doesn’t matter? He does matter. He matters more than anyone besides God.
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Hi T8,
But you give no respect to the work of the Spirit in and through the man Jesus.
Your view of him is as the world sees.
Hi t8,
Vessels are certainly important
2Tim 2.20f
But the truth remains for all men
2Cor 4
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the surpassing greatness of the power may be of God and not from ourselves
Hi T8,
But you give no respect to the work of the Spirit in and through the man Jesus.
Your view of him is as the world sees.
No Nick, you are wrong.
Jesus certainly spoke the words of God and always said and did the Father’s will. I have said this before.
Because I recognise this of Jesus, you condemn me. You want to remove Jesus out of the picture but you cannot.
Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. Amen.
Hi t8,
God has visited His people.
You need to see beyond the flesh to the treasure within.
Nick, Jesus Christ came in the flesh to save those in the flesh. He was born a baby like us. He came to us as one of us, so we could be one of him. He is the son of God and we can be sons of God.
The treasure within is the Kingdom of God. Eternal life in God and through the son.
You accusations about me not seeing this is silly. I write about these things nearly every day. Do you not have ears to hear?
Nick, you have changed your views here since joining Heaven Net. But you were just as right in your own mind back then too right?
Hi t8,
So why do you not listen to the Spirit in the anointed men of God?
Jesus told us his words were spirit and truth.
OAnd the Spirit spoke through Peter, Paul, James etc
Flesh contributes nothing
It is not hard to see how you come to your conclusions Nick. You have relegated Jesus to the flesh/man and the spirit of God at baptism as God, and saying that Jesus matters little because the Spirit is what matters because that is God. Thus, when Jesus is mentioned you think the man, when you see Jesus Christ you don’t see Jesus, but the spirit in him which is God. Then you suppose that it was only God speaking after Jesus baptism and deny Jesus as the son of God who spoke and did all things in his Father’s name. It’s as if you are denying Jesus but not in the usual way that that people deny him, but in a doctrinal sense.
Yet all those verses that say that Jesus said … and those verses about Jesus Christ coming in the flesh, and those verses about Jesus being born as the Christ and the Lord, you seem to overlook. I think you have little respect for Jesus and who he was before he came in the flesh. Even as a man, he was the second Adam in whom all will live, while in the first all will die. But he is also the Lord and son of God and was born as such, even as the messiah.
It seems to be a different Jesus that you speak of and there are many. The Muslims have one who they call Christ, but they deny his sonship. You seem to deny who was too, but only recognize intellectually the spirit that descended on him. But would that Spirit make a man deny that Jesus came in the flesh as the messiah and the son of God. This is the same son that God created all things through as it is clearly written. This one existed in the form of God before came in the flesh and we learn that the Word became flesh and hello, God created all things through the Word too. You seem not be able to connect Jesus to the Word that was with God. And the fact that it says, “with God” should be a giveaway, but you seem to not have much to say about that either.
Nick, you should for your own sake and not for ego sake on Heaven Net wonder what it means that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. To me you do not believe or teach this, but will admit it is true only because you have to. But then you will say that Jesus is the man and the Christ is the anointing of God, and coupled with your teaching as Jesus becoming the Christ at baptism, that leaves your teaching as saying that Jesus was not the messiah before that baptism. Therefore Jesus Christ cannot come in the flesh to you because Jesus came in the flesh and became Christ some thirty or so years later after first coming in the flesh.
I just see too many holes in your teachings about Jesus and if I point them out, then I am doing you a favour. And then you spend most of your time accusing others and myself, rather than showing how these holes can go away. To me, the holes are still there, and you fend off opposition by accusing others which is one of the lowest forms of defense and usually for those who have lost their debate.
The Pharisees did this very thing. They couldn’t beat Jesus wisdom and knowledge, so they accused him of things instead. Last line of defense. But they still lost. Yet they could have humbled themselves and repented at any stage. But pride is a great enemy of the soul.
Exactly, and they resorted to personal accusations too. They couldn’t deny his wisdom, knowledge, love, fruit, and works. So they accused him and sought to find a way to condemn him instead of judging themselves which could have spared God’s judgement on them.
Nick, you go on about being born again and following the Spirit. This is good advice, however, if you followed it yourself, you would have evidence of the new birth that is you would love. You would also believe that Jesus is the Christ as evidence of the new birth. You seem to lack both these points from what I can tell.
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
Jesus was born the Christ and the son of God. The Maggi came to honour him as such and even as a child, Jesus went about his Father’s business.
You teach that Jesus is not the Christ. But that after he became Christ, then he was the Christ. In other words you say that Jesus is not the Christ, not the baby, not the child, not the man before his baptism. Only Jesus Christ is the Christ to you.
But Jesus is the Christ.
Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist–denying the Father and the Son.
I really wish I did not have to point this out to you, but I have no choice.
Hi T8,
Let me state it for you again.
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
But you demand that I believe he was anointed prior to birth and that would deny what is written about the Jordan.
So kindly do not try to show me a liar and a deceiver.
Just because astrologers who read of his arrival in the stars recognised him proves nothing.
The Jews had better information and to their embarrassment missed it.
Genesis 1 told us of these things-signs and seasons.
Hi T8,
Let me state it for you again.
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.
But you demand that I believe he was anointed prior to birth and that would deny what is written about the Jordan.
So kindly do not try to show me a liar and a deceiver.
Emphasis mine.
Yes what you have stated in the quote is correct: “Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.” But earlier and I suspect now, you were teaching that Jesus was not the Christ, but that only after the Jordan he was the Christ. Thus you teach that Jesus Christ is the Christ and Jesus was not the Christ.
Yes, I can show you where you have either lied or at least made an honest mistake. I hope the latter.
First, I have not said anywhere here that Jesus was or wasn’t anointed prior to birth, it is you who have made such statements about me. I have even mentioned that he emptied himself, so remain open to the possibilities. And I have never denied what happened at the Jordan and never will. What I have said and you can check for yourself, is that he existed in the form of God and is now back in the glory that he had with the Father before the cosmos. I have also said that Jesus was born the Christ. The Maggi came to see Jesus Christ, not just a baby, for surely there were other babies around that time. But the stars aligned and pointed to the Christ being born.
- It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.
- Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.
- When he had called together all the people’s chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Messiah was to be born. “In Bethlehem in Judea,” they replied, “for this is what the prophet has written:
All I have done is challenge your teaching that Jesus was not the Christ prior to the baptism of repentance. I challenged that teaching based on scriptures that I have quoted to you and others that say he was the Christ and because those that deny Jesus is the Christ are of the Antichrist spirit. I am a man who searches for truth no matter what offence it causes others, I rightly questioned your teachings.
- Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
- Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist–denying the Father and the Son.
Your denial of Jesus being the Christ when he was a baby needed to be challenged with the above verse. And because I am not the one denying he was the Christ, then I do not have to be concerned about this and other verses. It is you who needs to be concerned. But if you have done due diligence and are happy to continue saying he was not the Christ, then no one can make you think otherwise and only you will give an account for your own actions. But if you continue this way, then at least show us why with scriptural reference, and we will consider your stance and see if it has merit. To date, I am concerned about some of the things you are teaching here and also the attitude that you seem have as a person who is the only one with the Spirit on this board. Further, I have shown you scriptures that demonstrate what should be there in a person if they have the Spirit, the one you claim to have, that is love and love is kind. I will be honest and say that you do not come across as kind, but that might just be me. Others can agree or disagree.
If you think about it, then my challenge to you is not a bad one. If I am right and you change, then I have helped you. If my concerns are misplaced, then in the least, we have checked things out just to be sure. But getting all up tight, angry, or zealously opposing me and others when challenged, is not the right way to react.
Reprove a wise man and he will love you.
Hi t8,
F rom your position of self appointed expert you have again misjudged the situation.
Christ means the anointed one.
He was anointed at the Jordan.
Scripture chooses to identify him as the Christ from birth.
There are no competing claims but it does not imply that he had previously been anointed as I am sure you understand.
Be slow to judge others.
Again you make a false claim about me. You say:
From your position of self appointed expert you have again misjudged the situation.
Christ means the anointed one.
He was anointed at the Jordan.But I already know what Christ means, but as I have pointed out. Men came to see Jesus Christ when he was a baby. They didn’t come to see a mere human baby, but the one who is Christ. I have shown you the testimony in scripture. So you argument is not with me. You say that for most of Jesus life he was not the Christ. I disagree with your view and you know why I disagree with it. I will not deny that Jesus is the Christ ever. So no point in trying to sway me to your view.
Read Mathew’s account and read it slowly. You are calling him a liar?
This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit.
Is Mathew’s account correct or not? Please answer. If you say no, then fine, you are entitled to think you know more than him. If you say yes, then you agree with me and not yourself.
YES/NO Nick.
Let your yes be yes and no be no. You can provide an explanation, but I want a yes or no, or I will place you on the Hot Seat to get one.
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