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Ooops,
I posted at the same time you were posting Not3in1.
That last post was for WorshippingJesus.Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ June 29 2007,05:25) I guess that my inability to follow your logic stems from the fact that it is that it is stessed over 200 times in the new testament that Jesus is the son of God. Jesus himself stresses this fact.
Yet man has latched on to one or two questionable verses that can be understood in different ways,
and has concluded that Jesus was deluding us and in fact is God.Tim
Yes, Amen to what you share; I certainly agree.Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,05:21) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2007,03:45) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 28 2007,18:24) “Jesus Christ our God” – it should sound foreign to your ears (it does mine) because it is not written ANYWHERE absolutely without question! Scary! Talk about deception; brother, you're in the thick of it! I hope Ignatius can save you?
Not3It si written without question.
But you refuse to believe it!
Jn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Jn 20:
28 And Thomas answered and *said unto him*, My Lord and my God.Why cant you just believe the scriptures without putting a “Unitarian” twist to it?
The problem that you have is Thomas didnt say…
“MY LORD AND MY FATHER”, did he?
Listen again…
Jn 20:
28 And Thomas answered and *said unto him*, My Lord and my God.This passage seems to be so distressing to the Unitarians and Henotheist and Arians.
If I was one I would be stressed to.
Blessings.
With all due respect, your posts are starting to sound like a broken record WJ. Are you just pasting the same things on to new posts?All of the scriptures you have posted here have been answered by a number of the pagens here
My point is, there are other ways to take these scriptures. Scripture lends itself to both (or many) views.If you can find me an absolute scripture that says Jesus is God (like the absolute scriptures that say God is One and the Father only), then I will glady convert.
Not3Then realy I dont know what to tell you.
For all I know to do is quote scripture.
After all isnt it the scriptures that are in question?
You can choose to believe the scriptures as you please, but dont expect if you keep making the same comments or asking the same questions of me that you will get a different answer.
You will only get a “broken record”. Just an honest interpretation of the scriptures without twisting or turning or making them say something they dont.
Blessings!
WJ, quoting scripture is fine. But quoting the same scriptures over and over again (using different fonts, script, underlining) does not make them say what YOU SAY they are saying, I'm sorry!
Quote (TimothyVI @ June 29 2007,05:25) I guess that my inability to follow your logic stems from the fact that it is that it is stessed over 200 times in the new testament that Jesus is the son of God. Jesus himself stresses this fact.
Yet man has latched on to one or two questionable verses that can be understood in different ways,
and has concluded that Jesus was deluding us and in fact is God.Tim
TimThe problem is mens interpretation of what “Monogenes Son of God” means.
If you notice after John recorded Thomas calling Jesus his Lord and God that John said…
Jn 20:
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.Seeing John also started this book by saying the “Word was God” and ending it with these verses is significant.
Later John writes 1 Jn 1:1,2 and 1 Jn 5:20 to confirm his belief concerning the “Monogenes, Unique Son of God”.
It is my opinion that “Son of God” was a term only found about 4 times in the OT scriptures and to the Jews of his day we see that for Jesus to claim to be the “Son of God” was blasphemy and meant to them he was making himself equal to God. John nor Jesus rebuked Thomas!
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,05:30) WJ, quoting scripture is fine. But quoting the same scriptures over and over again (using different fonts, script, underlining) does not make them say what YOU SAY they are saying, I'm sorry!
not3And making the same comments and personal interpretation of these scriptures dosnt change what the scriptures say either!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2007,04:49) Did Jesus have to give all the appalations you speak of when he mentioned the Father for you to believe the Father is God?
Hi WorshippingJesus,Actually, Jesus did at one time or another state that His father had all of those attributes, and was in fact the true God. I am not sure what appalations means. But Jesus made it abuntantly clear that His Father was greater than was He.
Tim
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2007,05:41) Quote (TimothyVI @ June 29 2007,05:25) I guess that my inability to follow your logic stems from the fact that it is that it is stessed over 200 times in the new testament that Jesus is the son of God. Jesus himself stresses this fact.
Yet man has latched on to one or two questionable verses that can be understood in different ways,
and has concluded that Jesus was deluding us and in fact is God.Tim
TimThe problem is mens interpretation of what “Monogenes Son of God” means.
If you notice after John recorded Thomas calling Jesus his Lord and God that John said…
Jn 20:
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.Seeing John also started this book by saying the “Word was God” and ending it with these verses is significant.
Later John writes 1 Jn 1:1,2 and 1 Jn 5:20 to confirm his belief concerning the “Monogenes, Unique Son of God”.
It is my opinion that “Son of God” was a term only found about 4 times in the OT scriptures and to the Jews of his day we see that for Jesus to claim to be the “Son of God” was blasphemy and meant to them he was making himself equal to God. John nor Jesus rebuked Thomas!
Hi WorshippingJesus,I believe that at the time that Thomas made that statement,
God had made Jesus His equal in authority for a time. Jesus was at his right hand. This was after Jesus had been resurrected. But that equality in authority only lasts until God is once again made all in all.Tim
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2007,05:41) It is my opinion that “Son of God” was a term only found about 4 times in the OT scriptures and to the Jews of his day we see that for Jesus to claim to be the “Son of God” was blasphemy and meant to them he was making himself equal to God. John nor Jesus rebuked Thomas!
In those days to be the son of a king meant that you were heir to the throne and would be king.
I think that is what upset them the most. In effect, Jesus was telling them that he was heir to the position of God and thus would be God.Tim
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2007,03:45) It si written without question. But you refuse to believe it!
This is the difference between you and me, WJ.
I share my opinions, but do not force others to believe it, making bold statements about my theories like you make in the above quote.Others are free to take what I say or not. If they chose not to, I do not say they are “refusing what is written *without question*” – goodness – that would make YOU the only ONE with the truth around here.
But enough childish arguments. Why is it you are they only one who draws this out of me? Aren't you an old man, WJ?
Haven't you learned not to fight with little girls?I'm kidding you…..
I thought this post was to gather opinions on what Matt.28:19 meant, not a debate about the trinity!
Quote (TimothyVI @ June 29 2007,05:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2007,05:41) It is my opinion that “Son of God” was a term only found about 4 times in the OT scriptures and to the Jews of his day we see that for Jesus to claim to be the “Son of God” was blasphemy and meant to them he was making himself equal to God. John nor Jesus rebuked Thomas!
In those days to be the son of a king meant that you were heir to the throne and would be king.
I think that is what upset them the most. In effect, Jesus was telling them that he was heir to the position of God and thus would be God.Tim
Exactly! Amen!Quote (TimothyVI @ June 29 2007,05:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2007,04:49) Did Jesus have to give all the appalations you speak of when he mentioned the Father for you to believe the Father is God?
Hi WorshippingJesus,Actually, Jesus did at one time or another state that His father had all of those attributes, and was in fact the true God. I am not sure what appalations means. But Jesus made it abuntantly clear that His Father was greater than was He.
Tim
NHYes.
And what Jesus said concerning the Father is no contradiction to the Trinitarian view.
God is a title that describes what type of being the Father is.
It is not the Fathers name. In fact we dont know the name of the Father.
The Father is God.
The man is human.
The dog is animal.
We know there is only “One God”. Since the scriptures say Jesus is also God…
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1375
Then either we have “Polytheism”, or a contradiction.
Trinitarians take all the scriptures in consideration. There is no scriptural contradictions with a Trinitarian view.
There is no denying, twisting, nor ignoring any of the OT or NT scriptures in order to suport our view.
Not so with other beliefs. You can not reconcile “all the scriptures honestly” without a Trinitarian view.
Thats the way I see it!
Blessings!
Quote (chosenone @ June 29 2007,06:01) I thought this post was to gather opinions on what Matt.28:19 meant, not a debate about the trinity!
CO,Every thread comes back to the Trinity…… it's WHO God is! It's so easy to get side-tracked because everything becomes so related.
Why don't you get us back on track.
WJ,
You're so used to arguing with “NH” that I think you forgot and put “NH” when you were actually talking to Tim?
I'm just giving you a hard time, WJ. I do enjoy your posts very much. I hope you know this by now.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,06:00) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2007,03:45) It si written without question. But you refuse to believe it!
This is the difference between you and me, WJ.
I share my opinions, but do not force others to believe it, making bold statements about my theories like you make in the above quote.Others are free to take what I say or not. If they chose not to, I do not say they are “refusing what is written *without question*” – goodness – that would make YOU the only ONE with the truth around here.
But enough childish arguments. Why is it you are they only one who draws this out of me? Aren't you an old man, WJ?
Haven't you learned not to fight with little girls?I'm kidding you…..
Not3Is there anything wrong with being 100% sure about my faith and my belief?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2007,06:07) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,06:00) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2007,03:45) It si written without question. But you refuse to believe it!
This is the difference between you and me, WJ.
I share my opinions, but do not force others to believe it, making bold statements about my theories like you make in the above quote.Others are free to take what I say or not. If they chose not to, I do not say they are “refusing what is written *without question*” – goodness – that would make YOU the only ONE with the truth around here.
But enough childish arguments. Why is it you are they only one who draws this out of me? Aren't you an old man, WJ?
Haven't you learned not to fight with little girls?I'm kidding you…..
Not3Is there anything wrong with being 100% sure about my faith and my belief?
No, brother. I'm just saying that your delivery could be a bit more inviting to those of us who are still searching the truth and making decisions surrounding parts of the Word of God.Everyone can learn something.
Quote (TimothyVI @ June 29 2007,05:59) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2007,05:41) It is my opinion that “Son of God” was a term only found about 4 times in the OT scriptures and to the Jews of his day we see that for Jesus to claim to be the “Son of God” was blasphemy and meant to them he was making himself equal to God. John nor Jesus rebuked Thomas!
In those days to be the son of a king meant that you were heir to the throne and would be king.
I think that is what upset them the most. In effect, Jesus was telling them that he was heir to the position of God and thus would be God.Tim
TimSo Jesus was promoting “Polytheism”?
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,06:08) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2007,06:07) Quote (Not3in1 @ June 29 2007,06:00) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 29 2007,03:45) It si written without question. But you refuse to believe it!
This is the difference between you and me, WJ.
I share my opinions, but do not force others to believe it, making bold statements about my theories like you make in the above quote.Others are free to take what I say or not. If they chose not to, I do not say they are “refusing what is written *without question*” – goodness – that would make YOU the only ONE with the truth around here.
But enough childish arguments. Why is it you are they only one who draws this out of me? Aren't you an old man, WJ?
Haven't you learned not to fight with little girls?I'm kidding you…..
Not3Is there anything wrong with being 100% sure about my faith and my belief?
No, brother. I'm just saying that your delivery could be a bit more inviting to those of us who are still searching the truth and making decisions surrounding parts of the Word of God.Everyone can learn something.
Not3I have been around this mountain many times with you with Jn 20:28.
All I can say is you refuse to believe what it says.
Or if it will make you feel better Ill refraise and say “you refuse to believe what I believe it says”.
I am 100% sure of what Thomas meant. Just as sure as Jesus is my Saviour he is also “MY Lord and God”.
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