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Hi Irene,
Yes, I believe all these scriptures as it is what the Bible teaches. But there are folks, for instance, who live in remote places who have never EVER seen a Bible and they worship God! What do you think of that, I'm curious?
Mandy! Not all will know the truth right now. Many are called, but few are chosen. However in the Millenium all will know the truth. It says that the truth will cover the earth , like water covers the sea.
Of hand I don't know where that Scripture is. And it is rather late. I am so tired, but I cant sleep. Us old people have that problem. So we sleep whenever. You know what I am so happy to have you back in the believers section. Its magic. Love that is. God that is. Jesus that is. Brethren that is. Love makes the world go around. I often wonder how it will be in the millenium. We will have the elect. Then we have the multitudes of Spirit beings that have washed their Robes white in the Blood of the Lamb. And then you will have the meek who will inherit the earth, who will be Human beings flesh and blood. And the increase of His Kingdom will find no end. The vast Universe. Will we be Spirit beings and flying to far away planets to make them beautiful? Endless planets. That boggles my mind.
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 06 2008,14:22) Hi Stu, Quote You cannot know for absolute certain that your experience of god is really what it seems. That is exactly why faith is required, otherwise you wouldn't call it faith. So where is the justice in a god that makes himself mysteriously incomprehensible then asks for obedience, with all the guess work that you need to achieve that. If there are 33,999 different versions of christianity and they all claim to be following the only path, isn't that enough to make anyone paranoid?
Here's the thing, I no longer need to “know for absolute certain” that God exists and that what I know of him is true and real. I know that some things in the physical world can be known for certain, but when you are dealing with ideas outside of our physical universe, you must employ different reasoning. One world is not like the other, I'm sure. If it were, we would have been able to pin-point the heavens by now and know something about them. As it is, our universe is ever expanding with un-charted territory. I suspect it will always be this way. Why? Because God cannot fully be known, nor can his plan, nor can his universe.Faith is believing in something you don't have yet. If you want God, you have faith. We only have a very minute part of him, but if we have faith we please him, and our reward is more of him! The flawed ink-written book is not the only way God speaks to his creation.
Quote If there are 33,999 different versions of christianity and they all claim to be following the only path, isn't that enough to make anyone paranoid?
I used to think so. But now I understand that there are many ways God can and does speak to his creation. With humanity being what it is, there is no way that one particular story has withstood the test of tampering. Therefore I have come to realize that there is truth in many different “versions” of Christianity and religions. This has set the paranoia to flight. There has since rested a peace that passes my understanding.
Would you say you share the same kind of 'certainty' that a scientist has – that you can come to a conclusion and be pretty sure, but open to new contradictory evidence that disproves your conclusion? I accept the possibility that I am wrong and there is a god. Do you similarly accept the possibility that you are wrong and there is no god?Stuart
Wow, Irene, this sounds like you are swearing at Stu!
But I know what you are trying to do and I appreciate your concern and prayers.
Thanks, sis.
MandyQuote (Stu @ April 06 2008,22:13) Quote (Not3in1 @ April 06 2008,14:22) Hi Stu, Quote You cannot know for absolute certain that your experience of god is really what it seems. That is exactly why faith is required, otherwise you wouldn't call it faith. So where is the justice in a god that makes himself mysteriously incomprehensible then asks for obedience, with all the guess work that you need to achieve that. If there are 33,999 different versions of christianity and they all claim to be following the only path, isn't that enough to make anyone paranoid?
Here's the thing, I no longer need to “know for absolute certain” that God exists and that what I know of him is true and real. I know that some things in the physical world can be known for certain, but when you are dealing with ideas outside of our physical universe, you must employ different reasoning. One world is not like the other, I'm sure. If it were, we would have been able to pin-point the heavens by now and know something about them. As it is, our universe is ever expanding with un-charted territory. I suspect it will always be this way. Why? Because God cannot fully be known, nor can his plan, nor can his universe.Faith is believing in something you don't have yet. If you want God, you have faith. We only have a very minute part of him, but if we have faith we please him, and our reward is more of him! The flawed ink-written book is not the only way God speaks to his creation.
Quote If there are 33,999 different versions of christianity and they all claim to be following the only path, isn't that enough to make anyone paranoid?
I used to think so. But now I understand that there are many ways God can and does speak to his creation. With humanity being what it is, there is no way that one particular story has withstood the test of tampering. Therefore I have come to realize that there is truth in many different “versions” of Christianity and religions. This has set the paranoia to flight. There has since rested a peace that passes my understanding.
Would you say you share the same kind of 'certainty' that a scientist has – that you can come to a conclusion and be pretty sure, but open to new contradictory evidence that disproves your conclusion? I accept the possibility that I am wrong and there is a god. Do you similarly accept the possibility that you are wrong and there is no god?Stuart
Hi Stu,If I said yes to your first question that would negate faith, wouldn't it? So while I am wanting to say yes, I will have to say no. The reason is because due to my experiences with God, I would never beleive that he did not exist. Besides, science nor you would ever be able to disprove God's existence – just as we cannot prove for certain he does exist. Therefore there is an element in those lives who believe in God, and that element is faith. Likewise, there is an element in those lives who do not believe in God, and that element is unbelief or skepticism.
I think what may frustrate you quite a lot here on this board is that there are many who want to believe. Some of us choose to believe regardless of the so-called evidence. Why? Because of something that also may frustrate you quite a lot, and that is the personal experience of the believer with their God. It's something that cannot, though we try, be put into proper words and sentences. It's something that one must take note of with their very soul. It passes understanding so much of the time, I've learned. But “it's” there nonetheless. “It” is “He”, and “He” is the “I AM”. Undefined. If God did not define himself, I'm no longer going to try.
Do I accept the possibility that I am wrong and there is no God? Sure, why not. But I can tell you one thing, if there is no God after I breathe my last…..it will have been worth it all to have thought there was a God while I lived. The reasons are numerous and some even take faith to explore….they are wonderous reasons. Too wonderous for me to ever believe that He isn't true and real, and alive in the heavens. Praise God (whatever his name is).
Here's a question for you, if you are also willing to admit you are wrong and there turns out to be a God….what do you think you will have missed by not believing in him? Can you even know? Can you guess? It's marvelous, Stu. I'm telling you, if you lay down all the faults of the dried ink and look up to the sky at night when it is aglow with it's stars and planets, you will find God. And he is shining down on you. Have you ever tried to communicate with him?
Quote (seek and you will find @ April 07 2008,03:36) Stu! Satan weiche, weiche weg von meiner freundin, Mandy. Amen.
Mandy hat ein Gehirn, das Gott ihr gab.Stuart
Hi Mandy
Quote If I said yes to your first question that would negate faith, wouldn't it? So while I am wanting to say yes, I will have to say no. The reason is because due to my experiences with God, I would never beleive that he did not exist. Besides, science nor you would ever be able to disprove God's existence – just as we cannot prove for certain he does exist. Therefore there is an element in those lives who believe in God, and that element is faith. Likewise, there is an element in those lives who do not believe in God, and that element is unbelief or skepticism.
I don’t think I ‘have unbelief’. I see belief as an ‘optional extra’ that I have not taken up. I was born atheist and I still am. No one was born a believer. You are right in what you say here but the word ‘faith’ is not a full explanation as it ignores all the reasons why people would be so serious about something they cannot possibly know with any confidence at all.Quote I think what may frustrate you quite a lot here on this board is that there are many who want to believe. Some of us choose to believe regardless of the so-called evidence. Why? Because of something that also may frustrate you quite a lot, and that is the personal experience of the believer with their God. It's something that cannot, though we try, be put into proper words and sentences. It's something that one must take note of with their very soul. It passes understanding so much of the time, I've learned. But “it's” there nonetheless. “It” is “He”, and “He” is the “I AM”. Undefined. If God did not define himself, I'm no longer going to try.
That is honest. You are not trying to bluff like others here. It is telling though that, having listened to some of the most prominent and articulate religious thinkers in the world, I have never heard a clear description of the religious experience. There are plenty of people in the world who can articulate the background to difficult emotional responses. Why is it not the same for religious ones? It is because the best science is damaging to the concept of faith? I don’t think it particularly frustrate me that people want to believe. What does bother me a little is that so many will throw out their curiosity and healthy, intelligent skepticism in order to make the illogical fit their worldview. That makes the world a tiny bit less safe each time it happens.Quote Do I accept the possibility that I am wrong and there is no God? Sure, why not. But I can tell you one thing, if there is no God after I breathe my last…..it will have been worth it all to have thought there was a God while I lived. The reasons are numerous and some even take faith to explore….they are wondrous reasons. Too wondrous for me to ever believe that He isn't true and real, and alive in the heavens. Praise God (whatever his name is).
Here's a question for you, if you are also willing to admit you are wrong and there turns out to be a God….what do you think you will have missed by not believing in him? Can you even know? Can you guess? It's marvelous, Stu. I'm telling you, if you lay down all the faults of the dried ink and look up to the sky at night when it is aglow with it's stars and planets, you will find God. And he is shining down on you. Have you ever tried to communicate with him?
My attitude is that we have lost so much, including countless human lives, by believing supernatural things that can’t be shown to be true, at the expense of real things that can be shown to be true but have not been allowed because of faith in the supernatural. When you peel away the expectations I don’t think there is anything to be gained by faith in a god, and the religions of Paul and Mohammed have been very damaging. I don’t think either of them really cared about people and that is reflected in the beliefs christians and muslims have today, no matter what pleasant words some may begin the conversation with. The other point is that the universe is far more spectacular and beautiful without prefacing everything with the ugly words ‘god’s creation’. By the nature of faith everything immediately becomes unknowable and loses its magic (you watch a magician because you know it is not magic, if it really was magic you would not go!). My reasons for not entertaining the emperor’s new clothes are both scientific and aesthetic.
Thanks for asking!Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 07 2008,07:07) The other point is that the universe is far more spectacular and beautiful without prefacing everything with the ugly words ‘god’s creation’.
Is “God's creation” ugly to you because humans have made religion so unappealing? What if God had nothing to do with some of what humans have made of things – a mess!I have to tell you that the God I know is only revealed through religion so much.
I love this quote from a favorite chick flick of mine, from the “Notebook”:
“…..there's science, and then comes God.”
In other words, some things we can know for sure while other's will always remain unknowable. I'm OK with that. I'm not going to check my brain at the door, but I'm OK with believing there is a God who is the Creator. In my opinion it takes just as much faith to believe that as it does that there is not.
Yes, Mandy I will tell you. I am just having a little fun, speaking German. I had no idea that Stu knows German. What I said to Stu was i quote” Satan weiche” meaning Satan don't come near my friend Mandy”
Then Stu replied ” God gave Mandy a mind.” In other words She has a mind to speak herself. It's like quoting Jesus when He told Satan to get behind Him.
Love Irene
Back on the topic of MAGIC….
Magic is appealing. When I was a kid, I loved the Wizard of Oz. Nowadays the kids are crazy for Harry Potter. I wonder, is there a difference between what we thought was harmless as a kid (Wizard of Oz) and HP? I confess that I wouldn't let my kids get drawn into the whole HP thing. To this day my kids have not read any of the books or seen the movies. But recently I watched two of the movies and I thought they were really good! Nervous laugh…..
Mandy! You sure did right by not letting your Kids not watch H.P. Movie. Our Daughter has not let our Grandchildren either.
Even some of the Cartoons have gone to far with all the Violence. Then we wonder why the kids do what they do.
I was watching Hannity America, I don't know if you ever watched that show, but He had something on tonight that made me so angry. I had to turn of the T.V. There is a new sports out were Kids as young as 3rd. Graders are beating each other up. They call it sports!!! It boggles my mind that Parents are going with this. They have lost their minds. We have not violence enough in our Schools? Now this!
If you wonder that we are not in the end times, wonder no more. Huh.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (seek and you will find @ April 07 2008,15:59) Mandy! You sure did right by not letting your Kids not watch H.P. Movie. Our Daughter has not let our Grandchildren either.
Even some of the Cartoons have gone to far with all the Violence. Then we wonder why the kids do what they do.
I was watching Hannity America, I don't know if you ever watched that show, but He had something on tonight that made me so angry. I had to turn of the T.V. There is a new sports out were Kids as young as 3rd. Graders are beating each other up. They call it sports!!! It boggles my mind that Parents are going with this. They have lost their minds. We have not violence enough in our Schools? Now this!
If you wonder that we are not in the end times, wonder no more. Huh. Peace and Love Mrs.
You want to bring on end times don't you? Why are you resistant to all the signs you believe signal it?Stuart
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 07 2008,15:35) Back on the topic of MAGIC…. Magic is appealing. When I was a kid, I loved the Wizard of Oz. Nowadays the kids are crazy for Harry Potter. I wonder, is there a difference between what we thought was harmless as a kid (Wizard of Oz) and HP? I confess that I wouldn't let my kids get drawn into the whole HP thing. To this day my kids have not read any of the books or seen the movies. But recently I watched two of the movies and I thought they were really good! Nervous laugh…..
It is so important for human developement that children have imaginary friends and fantasy worlds to inhabit.Those who really can't tell the difference and carry on into adulthood like that are the ones to be sorry for!
Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 07 2008,22:33) Hi Stu,
Yes it is the adults who think what they can see is all there is that are most unfortunate. Stuart
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 07 2008,15:35) Back on the topic of MAGIC…. Magic is appealing. When I was a kid, I loved the Wizard of Oz. Nowadays the kids are crazy for Harry Potter. I wonder, is there a difference between what we thought was harmless as a kid (Wizard of Oz) and HP? I confess that I wouldn't let my kids get drawn into the whole HP thing. To this day my kids have not read any of the books or seen the movies. But recently I watched two of the movies and I thought they were really good! Nervous laugh…..
[Mandy,My take, most of what we call magic, the Harry Potter and the like, is harmless fantasy, I see no evil in Harry Potter or the wizard of Oz I see looking at them, as such, pure paranoia. Harry Potter has brought millions of kids to reading instead of TV and Video games and the stories are well crafted and have basic moral lessons.
As for real magic, I think there is such a thing, which I believe is akin to advanced Jungian psychology. It deals with the changing of mental states of consciousness. I think it is morally neutral, and conerns manipulation of forces. Good or evil would stem from the applications of such, like in any type of energy. Many taboos stem from the ability to harm yourself or others when the foolish or malevolent try to pry open the doorways of their minds without training or knowledge.
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