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Quote (Stu @ April 04 2008,21:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 04 2008,20:57) Hi Stu,
As far as the mind goes it seems what we were born with has to be realigned.
Rom 12
1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
You have to fix what god got wrong in his creation of you?Stuart
Hi Stu,
God does things His way but allows our personal choices.When men chose to serve another god while endowed with awareness of good and evil they knew, but were powerless to obey, the inner law.
Ensnared instead but the strong bodily lusts they inherited with their new god's reign over them they became helplessly enmeshed with sin.
God offers them freedom and the Spirit's power to overcome.
Quote (Stu @ April 04 2008,20:19) Hi Mandy What do you think? Do you trust the brain god gave you?
Stuart
Hi Stuart,Yes, I trust my brain (most of the time). Why? Do you know something that I don't? Am I supposed to know something that you know? Is there something wrong with my brain?
Is there a smiley face for paranoid?
Quote (Cato @ April 04 2008,23:47) (Funny, my computer just started playing REM's “losing my religion” talk about coincidence.) As a teenager I shifted first to agnostic then deist, then a Jesus following deist as I contemplated God, the universe and life alone in my room at night.
When I started dating my husband in 1991 – REM was at the top of the charts. We had all their albums! I have thought of the song, “Losing my religion” since I began this search for truth. Ironic – yes.Tell me Cato, what was said about Jesus that made you make the move from deist to a Jesus-following-deist? Thanks.
That's me in the corner…..
MandyQuote (kejonn @ April 04 2008,22:41) Quote
I don't know, I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I also think that the Bible and it's many stories have endured for a reason. Look at the Dead Sea Scrolls – there is proof that at least some of the Bible is ancient. I'm sure the majority of it is flawed, don't get me wrong, shoot, even I found out the Trinity wasn't true by using an NIV – ha!Hinduism is older than all other religions. The Vedas — a Hindu religious text — dates anywhere from 1500 BCE to 6000 BCE in its origins. So if it is invalid, why was it allowed to remain?
Do you see that this reasoning is not quite right?
Let me clarify, I do not believe there is only ONE truth out there. I just don't. There just can't be. As you and I have studied, there are many who were born Muslim who serve, who they believe to be, the Almighty. We serve who we believe is the Almighty. A tribe in the mountains of some foreign land also serves the Almighty but they may call him something different; they may worship differently. Paul tells us there is ONE GOD, and it's my personal belief that most religions are worshiping this same God under different traditions and cultures.I said the bible stories have endured for a reason. I didn't say they have endured because they are the only truth. See, this is where I make orthodox Christians nuts – I have come to believe that God speaks to his creation many different ways and through many different “stories”. Including that of The Vedas you mentioned.
Hi not3,
Yes that is a very popular path.
Attempting to unite all religions under one banner is what the god of this world wants us to do.Hi not3,
Other religions cannot worship our Father in spirit and in truth. They cannot come to Him because Jesus is the only way to the Father, the mediator between God and men. Every way looks right to the ignorant but you are not among them.Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seems right to a man,But its end is the way of death.Proverbs 16:25
There is a way which seems right to a man,But its end is the way of death.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 05 2008,16:23) Hi not3,
Yes that is a very popular path.
Attempting to unite all religions under one banner is what the god of this world wants us to do.
How do you know that is what the god of this worlds wants?Quote Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seems right to a man,But its end is the way of death.Proverbs 16:25
There is a way which seems right to a man,But its end is the way of death.How do you know that the Proverbial writer wasn't referring to something other-than various reiligions? In other words, maybe he meant that man thinks eating bacon every morning is right for him, but in the end it will cause a heart-attack? Or other ideas, fill in the blanks.
Hi not3,
Whatever popular religious teaching that is not of scripture is of the one who controls men.
The wide road is packed but our road is narrow.
1 John 5:19
We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.Hi not3,
There is another way for the unwise.
Prov5
1My son, attend unto my wisdom, and bow thine ear to my understanding:2That thou mayest regard discretion, and that thy lips may keep knowledge.
3For the lips of a strange woman drop as an honeycomb, and her mouth is smoother than oil:
4But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a two-edged sword.
5Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.
6Lest thou shouldest ponder the path of life, her ways are moveable, that thou canst not know them.
7Hear me now therefore, O ye children, and depart not from the words of my mouth.
8Remove thy way far from her, and come not nigh the door of her house:
9Lest thou give thine honour unto others, and thy years unto the cruel:
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 05 2008,08:50) Quote (Stu @ April 04 2008,21:50) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 04 2008,20:57) Hi Stu,
As far as the mind goes it seems what we were born with has to be realigned.
Rom 12
1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
You have to fix what god got wrong in his creation of you?Stuart
Hi Stu,
God does things His way but allows our personal choices.When men chose to serve another god while endowed with awareness of good and evil they knew, but were powerless to obey, the inner law.
Ensnared instead but the strong bodily lusts they inherited with their new god's reign over them they became helplessly enmeshed with sin.
God offers them freedom and the Spirit's power to overcome.
So is that freedom to fix up god's mistakes? He gives you a means by which you can make yourself better than he created you? How does that logic work?Is god omniscient? Does god want you to obey? He has a funny way of going about achieving obedience. you have a choice but if you exercise it against his wishes then you are doomed. What sort of choice is that?
Stuart
Nick you have not answered Mandy's question. How do you know what god wants? You only say what scripture commands. That is not the same thing; you have made no causal link between the two.
Stuart
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 05 2008,15:51) Quote (Stu @ April 04 2008,20:19) Hi Mandy What do you think? Do you trust the brain god gave you?
Stuart
Hi Stuart,Yes, I trust my brain (most of the time). Why? Do you know something that I don't? Am I supposed to know something that you know? Is there something wrong with my brain?
Is there a smiley face for paranoid?
No, my beliefs are anti-paranoia. There is no celestial big brother watching me for every little slip-up I make. I hope you feel the same way, even if you are a believer!Anyway the point about trusting your brain is the question why do you need the bible? You may appreciate the qualities Jesus may have shown (or not), but why do you need him for thinking 'right'? If god has created your brain and is omnipotent and omniscient, why would you not be able to completely trust that it will cause you to do his will? Can you not trust god's omnipotence? Is he playing some kind of wierd psychological game with you? In that case wouldn't you have to question his worthiness for worship?
Just curious about how the logic works here.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 05 2008,17:18) No, my beliefs are anti-paranoia.
No, I know you are not paranoid Stu – I was jesting that I was the paranoid one. Trying to be funny…Sorry I did nit say anything, my eyes are closing on me I am so tired, but can't sleep. Please don't get old. Ha,Ha……Love you Guys Irene
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 05 2008,17:35) Quote (Stu @ April 05 2008,17:18) No, my beliefs are anti-paranoia.
No, I know you are not paranoid Stu – I was jesting that I was the paranoid one. Trying to be funny…
I do get it! But the question is a serious one. You cannot know for absolute certain that your experience of god is really what it seems. That is exactly why faith is required, otherwise you wouldn't call it faith. So where is the justice in a god that makes himself mysteriously incomprehensible then asks for obedience, with all the guess work that you need to achieve that. If there are 33,999 different versions of christianity and they all claim to be following the only path, isn't that enough to make anyone paranoid? Can god be trusted to have giver you the faculties to make you 'acceptable in his sight' (another phrase that calls god's competence into question!).I don't think there is anything that I know about that you don't that is critical for living a life with meaning. It is the fundamentalists here that claim to know stuff others don't but for some reason they don't seem capable of explaining it… almost as if they are bluffing…
Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 04 2008,23:23) Hi not3,
Yes that is a very popular path.
Attempting to unite all religions under one banner is what the god of this world wants us to do.
Then the God of the bible should do more than just have an ancient book about Him. One that portrays Him in a nasty way at that.Quote (Not3in1 @ April 04 2008,23:13) Quote (kejonn @ April 04 2008,22:41) Quote
I don't know, I agree with a lot of what you are saying but I also think that the Bible and it's many stories have endured for a reason. Look at the Dead Sea Scrolls – there is proof that at least some of the Bible is ancient. I'm sure the majority of it is flawed, don't get me wrong, shoot, even I found out the Trinity wasn't true by using an NIV – ha!Hinduism is older than all other religions. The Vedas — a Hindu religious text — dates anywhere from 1500 BCE to 6000 BCE in its origins. So if it is invalid, why was it allowed to remain?
Do you see that this reasoning is not quite right?
Let me clarify, I do not believe there is only ONE truth out there. I just don't. There just can't be. As you and I have studied, there are many who were born Muslim who serve, who they believe to be, the Almighty. We serve who we believe is the Almighty. A tribe in the mountains of some foreign land also serves the Almighty but they may call him something different; they may worship differently. Paul tells us there is ONE GOD, and it's my personal belief that most religions are worshiping this same God under different traditions and cultures.I said the bible stories have endured for a reason. I didn't say they have endured because they are the only truth. See, this is where I make orthodox Christians nuts – I have come to believe that God speaks to his creation many different ways and through many different “stories”. Including that of The Vedas you mentioned.
Many Atheists see all who believe in God as delusional. I can see that for the very reason you give. The fact that there are so many religions and that people within the same religion are so splintered gives them mucho ammunition. People relying on prayer rather than seeking medical attention gives them ammo. JWs refusing blood transfusions gives them ammo. People saying it was OK for God to kill over 2 million people in the OT because He has that right gives them plenty of ammo. I could go on and on.Muslims make many claims about their faith but Christians don't believe them. Christians make many claims about their faith but Jews don't believe them. Mormons make many claims about their faith but JWs don't believe them. Hindus make many claims about their faith, but Taoists don't believe them. Now switch all of these up in multiple combinations and you have a humanity that is divided.
Sadly, religion is yet another way humanity is divided. And many religions have racism in their scriptures, so there is a basis for people to justify racism. There is also sexism in many religious works, so it has taken 1000s of years for women to be treated semi-equally. In many parts of the world they still are not.
I love God, but until we know who He is definitively, we are going to remain divided.
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