LU/Jodi Discussion

[Jodi]

Hi LU,

Just now noticing that you posted on our discussion!

The fact that we read,

16 And Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

does not mitigate whatsoever that verse 1 tells us that we are being given THE BOOK OF Jesus Christ’s Genesis/origin-ancestry for the very purpose to show that Jesus is a genetic descendent of Abraham and David, where then the book given of Jesus’s genealogy goes from Abraham all the way to Joseph.

The fact that Matthew immediately after giving us the book of Jesus’s ancestry, says “THEREFORE all the Genea/Fathered-genetic line, from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations” really seals the deal, as Matthew is reiterating the fact that he did give us Jesu’s genetic line!

We are being directly told that Jesus is a genetic descendent of Abraham through being a bio son of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus.

This is perfect, it takes 23 chromosomes from a male human and 23 chromosomes from a female human to create a human child.

Let’s keep reading, it gets really good!

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

So we were just told directly by Matthew that Jesus is a bio son of Joseph and Joseph was betrothed to his mother Mary and now we are being told that Mary was found with child before they came together by the power of the Holy Spirit.

19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of/ek-by the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

The angel comes to Joseph in a dream to tell him not be be afraid to take his wife because what is conceived in her is by the power of the Holy Spirit. He was afraid wanting to put her out because he thought she had conceived a child by another man.

The fact that we hear the angel address Joseph as the son of David is significant.

The fact that the angel tells Joseph in the next verse to name the son that Mary brings forth, Jesus, for he shall save his people from their sins, is also very significant.

The fact that the angel tells Joseph that “all this was done” (God by the power of His Spirit causing Mary to be found with child before they came together) was for the purpose to fulfill God’s word spoken by the prophet Isaiah, is very significant. 

An angel coming to Joseph calling him out as David’s son and telling him that his betrothed was found with child by the power of the Holy Spirit FOR THE PURPOSE to fulfill God’s promise concerning Isaiah 7, is the angel telling Joseph that the child Mary conceived, before their every intention to come together, is in fact a child of his blood.

Joseph, the son of David, was told the virgin birth was for the purpose to fulfill the sign God had given unto his house, to which concerned an heir to David’s throne. The fact we read all this and know that Matthew began with giving us the book of Jesus’s genetic line to show how he is a bio son of David and that book leads directly to Joseph, there should be no question that Jesus is being declared in the book of Matthew a rightful heir to David’s throne through being the bio son of Joseph.

[Jodi]

Hi LU,

YOU:

Believers would not be named YHVH anymore than the members of Israel all being named Israel. They are of Israel and also called Israelites.

Also, many sons have the first name of their father but not all the sons of that father are given the first name of the father.

Hence, Jesus was given the name of His Father…YHVH. There is no problem here. He has it in the OT, He is also called “The Word of the LORD” which is seen, felt, heard, and acknowledged as YHVH in the OT. I spoke to a Messianic Rabbi today and he confirmed that the Word that was in the beginning…refers to the Word of the LORD who appears in the OT.

ME:

YHVH declared the END from the beginning, many things did He declared before the world even was, including that a man would come and execute His purpose, which was to bring forth righteousness.  That man who would come we are told executes YHVH’s purpose through YHVH calling him to righteousness. where his righteousness exists through YHVH’s Spirit living in him.  YHVH gives us His Word, many things does He declare, and we are given the Word that all of this was His Word from the beginning.

The Word that we are given,

Jesus speaks the Word of YHVH through the Spirit of YHVH that came to dwell in him at the river Jordan. Such is fulfillment of YHVH’s Word spoken by the prophet Isaiah.

Jesus speaks YHVH’s word

Jesus being anointed by YHVH to speak YHVH’s word is a fulfillment of YHVH’s word.

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Luke 4:117 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,8 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Jesus declared that further prophecies of YHVH’s word, YHVH would fulfill in him.

Some of those have been fulfilled and some of them are yet to be fulfilled.

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

This word of YHVH that was with Him before the world began, the promise of eternal life unto mankind, was fulfilled in Jesus of Nazareth, who had shed his blood so that all could have access to YHVH’s Word of Life.

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

1 John 1: 1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

Here is another place where YHVH made His word true in Jesus.

Psalms 89:27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Here is an example of YVHV’s word that Jesus, the son of Jesse who has YHVH’s Spirit upon him, is yet to fulfill,

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of YHVH shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of YHVH; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of YHVH: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith YHVH, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land.

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called the word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

The name WRITTEN is King of kings and Lord of lords, such a name is rightfully called the word of God, because such is God’s word to be fulfilled in Jesus when God fulfills another prophecy concerning him, his second coming.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

[Lightenup]

Hi Jodi,

You put up a verse from Titus. Would you mind telling us why Jesus is called “our Great God and Savior Jesus Christ.”

Titus 2:11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to everyone. 12It instructs us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live sensible, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. 14He gave Himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

15Speak these things as you encourage and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you.

[Lightenup]

Jodi,

You said:

 Jesus is being declared in the book of Matthew a rightful heir to David’s throne through being the bio son of Joseph.

I say that Jesus is being declared in the book of Matthew, a rightful heir to David’s throne through being the bio son of Mary who is married to Joseph who is of the line of David.

I do think that Gabriel would have appeared to Joseph BEFORE Joseph’s sperm was taken from him, NOT AFTER if indeed Joseph’s sperm was used to impregnate Mary. That seems to be the way God works.

See the story of Sampson’s conception, Isaac’s conception, John the Baptist’s conception. All three conceptions had the supernatural being show up BEFORE the conception.

Like Mary who had the chance to know what was going to happen BEFORE she conceived and agree to be that vessel used in conceiving the Messiah, I do believe that Joseph would have been approached BEFORE his sperm inpregnated Mary if that is what was to happen. The angel appeared to Joseph AFTER conception and never once said that the child that Mary was carrying was of his own body. Mary gave birth to HER firstborn, not ‘their’ firstborn.

[Jodi]

Hi LU,

You still COMPLETELY IGNORE the very fact that Matthew says he is giving us the genetic line of Jesus and that line that he gives goes from Abraham to Joseph and he even reiterates that line again according to calculating generations of men of the same genes.

As said, everything that the angel told Joseph made it obvious to Joseph that the child was indeed of his seed. You forget the entire purpose of the virgin birth, which in Matthew it is even stated that all this was done to fulfill the sign that was for the house of David concerning an heir, to which comes through the father and the angel specifically addressed Joseph as being the son of David, which is not normal.

The purpose of the virgin birth was not for God to become a baby, it was for a sign unto the house of David concerning an heir to David’s throne, where the heir was always according to who a son’s father was.

So if you want things to be so aligned so much, then regardless of Joseph being a bio or an adopted father why didn’t the angel tell him beforehand either way huh? Why weren’t all those other births virgin births then too, why weren’t they prophesied long before they occurred,  why didn’t the angel address the father of each one according to who they themselves were sons of? I am sorry but your point here really seems to be observed.

Luke 2:7 And she brought forth her/AUTOS/THEIR firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

 

[Jodi]

Hi LU,

TITUS,

1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Also from Paul and then from Revelation,

2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Back to Paul,

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

So is Titus 2:13 talking about the Great God our Father and also Jesus? The above scriptures point me in that direction but the below is pretty convincing,

John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Jesus being the only mortal man to have received the Spirit without measure to speak God’s word,  would make him a great god indeed!

Deut 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

MEN are gods to whom the word of God came according to God and thus such would make Jesus a great god, for those who listen and believe on his word are saved or else they are destroyed. 

2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great god and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

NOW consider the man coming in the glory of our Father who has His Spirit living in him,

Isaiah 11:4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. 32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

Jesus is not YHVH, he is a man whom YHVH ordained to be our judge through him having YHVH’s Spirit dwelling in him whereby such he makes righteous judgements, not judging by his own eyes and ears. He is called a god by YHVH for having the Spirit of YHVH living in him whereby he speaks the words of YHVH.

[Jodi]

Hi LU,

Do you have any rebuttal to my post that was in response to what you said below,

YOU: “Hence, Jesus was given the name of His Father…YHVH. There is no problem here. He has it in the OT, He is also called “The Word of the LORD” which is seen, felt, heard, and acknowledged as YHVH in the OT”.

ME:

I have more to say regarding your position above, based on the scriptures below,

I am providing more of the text for you of Rev 19:

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Do you see it LU? 

The name WRITTEN is King of kings and Lord of Lords, which is according to YHVH’s word of prophecy.

The word of God is highlighted in blue for you, it is that which YHVH has declared from the beginning, a man from the tribe of Judah of the ancestry of David, would execute YHVH’s will through the Spirit of YHVH upon him. Through that Spirit that is upon him he is a righteous judge over every soul where he gives eternal life to believers and brings forth war destroying the wicked.

1 Chronicles 17:

9 Also I will ordain a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning,
10 And since the time that I commanded judges to be over my people Israel. Moreover I will subdue all thine enemies. Furthermore I tell thee that the LORD will build thee an house.
11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom.
12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.
13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:
14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
15 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.
16 And David the king came and sat before the LORD, and said, Who am I, O LORD God, and what is mine house, that thou hast brought me hitherto?
17 And yet this was a small thing in thine eyes, O God; for thou hast also spoken of thy servant’s house for a great while to come, and hast regarded me according to the estate of a man of high degree, O LORD God.
18 What can David speak more to thee for the honour of thy servant? for thou knowest thy servant.
19 O LORD, for thy servant’s sake, and according to thine own heart, hast thou done all this greatness, in making known all these great things.
20 O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
21 And what one nation in the earth is like thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem to be his own people, to make thee a name of greatness and terribleness, by driving out nations from before thy people, whom thou hast redeemed out of Egypt?
22 For thy people Israel didst thou make thine own people for ever; and thou, LORD, becamest their God.
23 Therefore now, LORD, let the thing that thou hast spoken concerning thy servant and concerning his house be established for ever, and do as thou hast said.
24 Let it even be established, that thy name may be magnified for ever, saying, The LORD of hosts is the God of Israel, even a God to Israel: and let the house of David thy servant be established before thee.

Isaiah 46:

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness:
13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

Isaiah 11:

1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

I will continue to give the passages above until you acknowledge them!

LU, Jesus is a man who through being begotten of YHVH’s Spirit is a King of kings and a Lord of lords according to YHVH’s word declared from the beginning. 

1.  Jesus is the man of YHVH’s word made true in the flesh many times over, his anointing to preach, his anointing to set us free from sin through his death on the cross, his resurrection and receiving of the promised Spirit, his return in our Father’s glory, him sitting on his father David’s throne.

2. Jesus spoke YHVH’s word through the Spirit that came to live in him.

3. Jesus is the man who fulfills YHVH’s word as He follows YHVH’s will, including bringing forth salvation unto righteousness and destroying the wicked.

Jesus is not YHVH, he is did not pre-exist as YHVH’s word, he was IN YHVH’s word from the beginning where all things that YHVH had created were created by reason of and for Jesus as he would fulfill YHVH’s purpose for making all things in the first place, making us joint heirs with Jesus Christ the firstborn overall the new earth, a firstborn of many, where we too are promised to be raised and inherit YHVH’s Spirit.

Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God and we are promised to be joint heirs with Christ (anointed of the Spirit) being heirs of God, for the Spirit bears witness to our spirit that we are children of God. Jesus bore witness that he was the only mortal man begotten of God’s Spirit without measure, he followed not his own will but YHVH’s will, doing all things through the Spirit that came to live in him. He died but was raised receiving God’s Spirit to dwell in him once again for all eternity, which was according to a promise unto all of mankind, for YHVH will be ALL IN ALL. Through that Spirit Jesus is going to finish YHVH’s work, that which was God’s determined purpose before the world began. The Son of Man is to return in the glory of our Father and give us our own glory where we will fight with him making war and destroying the wicked. Jesus will sit on his father David’s throne according to the flesh forevermore, where YHVH is his Father and our Father, his God and our God as we live according to YHVH’s Spirit dwelling in us. That Spirit causes us to walk in all his ways, we bear YHVH’s image, just as YHVH had purposed before He made the worlds.

 

[GeneBalthrop]

Jodi…….“PERFECT”. You nailed it again! sorry for interupting,  but when you present things so clearly by using solid scriptures for support,   it’s hard for me not to say something, I sure hope LU, and others here, get it. 

Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

[Lightenup]

Hi Jodi,

Please ask Gene to not post here, thanks.

I’m sorry that I have gone so long in-between posting to you…I still have a ton going on.

Regarding what you said here:

Luke 2:7 And she brought forth her/AUTOS/THEIR firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

You are incorrect to write “their” since the Greek word is a singular feminine pronoun and should be “her.”  She brought forth her firstborn son. The Greek does not read that she brought forth their firstborn son.

See the interlinear here: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/2-7.htm

I realize that you have written many things. I just have time to address clear errors as I come to them. This one about Luke 2:7 should be easy to clear up. Can you see your error here?

Blessings, LU

[Author]

Posts