lord and god equal terms

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
The branch cannot produce fruit outside of the vine through which the sap flows, to and from it.
Dead branches are destined for the fire.

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 02 2010,05:14)

Hi TT, So do tell us how the words are interchangeable in 1Cor 8. Or should we just trust your insights?

Hi Nick,

Lord means “owner” and of course Jesus is “owner”; because his Father is “HolySpirit”(GOD)!
LORD in the Old “Testament”=117, is translated from God's Name [יהוה].
They are NOT interchangeable and this CAN be proven, only in TT's mind are they.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD)YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
His use of scripture is only in doctrinal defence.
He should rather learn from it.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 01 2010,15:52)

Do you take Thomas (the doubter) as an an official authority on Christ. Is your 'proof' based on 'ANYTHING' that has the word 'God' in it ('My God said to his God…' how many gods)?

JA
He was not a doubter when he made this statement was he?

In fact Jesus did not correct or rebuke his word but blessed him for seeing it!

Blessings WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 01 2010,15:56)

WJ, I didn't know that was a question! More of a retorical statement. But to respond: Yes, we are Lords and Saviours – to one another – we all, who are anointed with the Holy Spirit, Lords and Saviours.

JA

Are you serious?

WJ

[JustAskin]

WJ wrote: What does the term “One Master and Lord” mean to you? Jude 4, 5

(Note that I don't need to repost teh whole of what WJ wrote…!)

Here is another example of petty quivery: “One Lord Master and Lord” – “One Lord and Master” – do we speak plain English or a foreign language:
What is “Lord” – “a great one”
What is “Master” – “one in charge over us”
What is “One Master and Lord”: “A great one in charge over us”

WJ, why did you ask me this question and what did you exect me to reply?

[JustAskin]

WJ wote: “Are you serious?”

Speak to me – what are you querying?

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 02 2010,08:17)

Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 01 2010,15:52) Do you take Thomas (the doubter) as an an official authority on Christ. Is your 'proof' based on 'ANYTHING' that has the word 'God' in it ('My God said to his God…' how many gods)? JA He was not a doubter when he made this statement was he? In fact Jesus did not correct or rebuke his word but blessed him for seeing it! Blessings WJ

Hi WJ,
God was in Christ.
When Thomas saw him he saw God as well.[Jn14]

[JustAskin]

Nick,

Jesus did not respond to him to correct him but simpy refered to his belief that Jesus had been resurrected.

Calling jesus 'his God' ('My God') does not imply 'The God'. What would God the father have said “Hey, hold on – I'm God. And to think I spent all that energy raising you to life with my Spirit and got that interir designer to prepare an extra space on my throne for you and you already calling yourself God!”

(And the man said to his spirit:'My God, what have you done?”)

[JustAskin]

WJ,

I see what you are askin'

Are we not Lords and Saviours of our brothers and sisters when we bring them to God the Father through Christ and the Holy Spirit?

Can those who are appointed,
due to being anointed,
not be called Lords and Saviours,
because of their Godly behaviours.
Like God who is the Highest,
Gave his Spirit unto Christ,
who apportioned unto us
“LORD and Lord, thanks very much!”

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 01 2010,16:57)

WJ, I see what you are askin' Are we not Lords and Saviours of our brothers and sisters when we bring them to God the Father through Christ and the Holy Spirit? Can those who are appointed, due to being anointed, not be called Lords and Saviours, because of their Godly behaviours. Like God who is the Highest, Gave his Spirit unto Christ, who apportioned unto us “LORD and Lord, thanks very much!”

JA

Do you have any scriptures where the Apostles or any of Jesus followers call anyone other than Jesus their personal “Lord and Savour”?

Blessings WJ

[942767]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 02 2010,07:33)

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 31 2010,18:27) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,04:56) Hi thinker, and WJ: Jesus told us who was “his” God as well as “ours”.  Don't you believe him? Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “ I am not trying to bail Nick but you out.   Love in Christ, Marty Marty The scriptures call Jesus God, do you believe this? Interesting, the scripture you quote, for in the same chapter Jesus didn't correct Thomas and give him the same information but instead blessed him when… Thomas *said unto him*, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:28, 29 Notice the Narrator John the witness says clearly “Thomas *said unto him*“, there is no wiggle room for any other interpretation. You can say there is but that would only be inference the very thing that Trinitarians are accused of! John also is the one that wrote John 1:1 clearly showing Jesus the Word that was with God is God! You do not have to believe it, but you have no proof that what I say is not true. The scriptures call Jesus God, and if he is not God then it would be Idolatry, or blasphemy to do so. If he is “a god” in any sense and not the “True God” (1 John 5:20) then according to the Mosaic Law that would be Idolatry! Tell me Marty if I call Jesus “my Lord and my God”, am I breaking the scriptures? Blessings WJ Hi Brother: Isn't the following scripture plain to you?  It is to me.  Jesus said that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God.  The is only “One God”. Quote Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “ Jesus is the express image of God's person.  God made man in His onw image, and Jesus is the last Adam.  The first Adam was made a living soul.  The last Adam is like God in that he is also a spirit of love.  He is God in this sense.  We have seen God through the works of obedience that he did to His God and our God and His Father and our Father. Love in Christ, Marty Marty Yes it is plain to me that because of Jesus manhood he has a God. But that does not at all answer the points that I make does it? You say… Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) He is God in this sense. There is no such teaching in scriptures. He is either God or he is not at all! To say that anything or any one is a god to you in any sense would be Idolatry unless he is the “True God”. John 20:28, Heb 1:8, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, 1 John 5:20, Jude 1:4, 4. Blessings WJ

Hi WJ:

What points do you not understand, he is the express image of God's person, and we have seen God character manifest through the life that Jesus lived in obedience to God even unto death on the cross.

He told us plainly that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God.

He also said the following in John 17:

1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.3 And this is eternal life, that THEY MAY KNOW YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent

There are no other points to consider. The scriptures plainly tell us that Jesus is the Son of God and is God's Christ. There is “only one God”.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,18:21)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 02 2010,07:33) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 31 2010,18:27) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,04:56) Hi thinker, and WJ: Jesus told us who was “his” God as well as “ours”.  Don't you believe him? Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “ I am not trying to bail Nick but you out.   Love in Christ, Marty Marty The scriptures call Jesus God, do you believe this? Interesting, the scripture you quote, for in the same chapter Jesus didn't correct Thomas and give him the same information but instead blessed him when… Thomas *said unto him*, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:28, 29 Notice the Narrator John the witness says clearly “Thomas *said unto him*“, there is no wiggle room for any other interpretation. You can say there is but that would only be inference the very thing that Trinitarians are accused of! John also is the one that wrote John 1:1 clearly showing Jesus the Word that was with God is God! You do not have to believe it, but you have no proof that what I say is not true. The scriptures call Jesus God, and if he is not God then it would be Idolatry, or blasphemy to do so. If he is “a god” in any sense and not the “True God” (1 John 5:20) then according to the Mosaic Law that would be Idolatry! Tell me Marty if I call Jesus “my Lord and my God”, am I breaking the scriptures? Blessings WJ Hi Brother: Isn't the following scripture plain to you?  It is to me.  Jesus said that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God.  The is only “One God”. Quote Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “ Jesus is the express image of God's person.  God made man in His onw image, and Jesus is the last Adam.  The first Adam was made a living soul.  The last Adam is like God in that he is also a spirit of love.  He is God in this sense.  We have seen God through the works of obedience that he did to His God and our God and His Father and our Father. Love in Christ, Marty Marty Yes it is plain to me that because of Jesus manhood he has a God. But that does not at all answer the points that I make does it? You say… Quote (942767 @ Feb. 01 2010,04:25) He is God in this sense. There is no such teaching in scriptures. He is either God or he is not at all! To say that anything or any one is a god to you in any sense would be Idolatry unless he is the “True God”. John 20:28, Heb 1:8, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, 1 John 5:20, Jude 1:4, 4. Blessings WJ Hi WJ: What points do you not understand, he is the express image of God's person, and we have seen God character manifest through the life that Jesus lived in obedience to God even unto death on the cross. He told us plainly that he was ascending to his Father and our Father and to his God and our God. He also said the following in John 17: Quote 1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.3 And this is eternal life, that THEY MAY KNOW YOU, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent There are no other points to consider.  The scriptures plainly tell us that Jesus is the Son of God and is God's Christ.  There is “only one God”. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

Thank you!

But you are only proving that he is the Son of God!

But you are not addressing that Jesus is also called God!

Yes he is the “Express image of Gods person” [hypostasis] (literally essence or substance). Click here

In other words all the the Father is Jesus is.

Would you say your Father is less human than you, or is he of the same nature or essence as you?

Think about it, you cannot even say that you are the “express image of your Fathers person” can you?

How much more is Jesus in nature God?

Its not hard to understand that they are One in every way, just like the Sun and the Sunrays!

“The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being“, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Heb 1:3

Blessings WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Men too are called gods by scripture as the Son of God told us.
What is your point?

For you are there several gods?

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 02 2010,19:54)

Hi WJ, Men too are called gods by scripture as the Son of God told us. What is your point? For you are there several gods?

Nick,

I have allready made the point. The name “Son” in reference to Jesus is by far superior to the name “gods” in reference to angels.

So what's your point?

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 02 2010,08:07)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 02 2010,05:14) Hi TT, So do tell us how the words are interchangeable in 1Cor 8. Or should we just trust your insights? Hi Nick, Lord means “owner” and of course Jesus is “owner”; because his Father is “HolySpirit”(GOD)! LORD in the Old “Testament”=117, is translated from God's Name [יהוה]. They are NOT interchangeable and this CAN be proven, only in TT's mind are they. Witnessing to the world in behalf of… 117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD)YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17) Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

ED J,

You need to go back to the first post in this thread. It was Nick who inferred that “Lord” and “God” were equal terms. I had simply said that Jesus became Master and Lord and Nick replied saying, “You have suggested that Jesus became God.”

Did Nick not infer that the two terms are equal?

ED J:

Quote

Lord means “owner” and of course Jesus is “owner”;

Then Jesus is God for He is your “Only Master and Lord” (Owner) Jude 4

ED J:

Quote

They are NOT interchangeable and this CAN be proven

We're waiting for you to prove it. Isaiah 45 says that every knee shall bow to God (vss. 22-23). Paul applied Isaiah's prophecy to Christ saying that every knee shall bow to and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

The terms look interchangeable to me.

ED J:

Quote

…only in TT's mind are they [interchangeable].

The terms are interchangeable in the minds of EVERY true Christian.

thinker

[NickHassan]

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 02 2010,20:02)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 02 2010,19:54) Hi WJ, Men too are called gods by scripture as the Son of God told us. What is your point? For you are there several gods? Nick, I have allready made the point. The name “Son” in reference to Jesus is by far superior to the name “gods” in reference to angels. So what's your point? thinker

Hi TT,
The Son is greater than the angels but angels too serve the anointed in Christ.

So back to the original question for you are there several gods?

Is Jesus both your lord and your god?

Is he god and son of God?

Mystery babylon!

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 03 2010,06:49)

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 02 2010,20:02) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 02 2010,19:54) Hi WJ, Men too are called gods by scripture as the Son of God told us. What is your point? For you are there several gods? Nick, I have allready made the point. The name “Son” in reference to Jesus is by far superior to the name “gods” in reference to angels. So what's your point? thinker Hi TT, The Son is greater than the angels but angels too serve the anointed in Christ. So back to the original question for you are there several gods? Is Jesus both your lord and your god? Is he god and son of God? Mystery babylon!

The Father installed His Son as my God

1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; 3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

 
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say:

     “ You are My Son,
     Today I have begotten You”?

  And again:

     “ I will be to Him a Father,
     And He shall be to Me a Son”?

6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says:

     “ Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

7 And of the angels He says:

     “ Who makes His angels spirits
     And His ministers a flame of fire.”

8 But to the Son He says:

     “ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
     A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

Did the Father install His Son as God over men or lizards? Which is it Nick?

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
Really,
When did God do so?
Was he not God before that too or did his divinity wax and wane?
Do you have a god that has one part that is sometimes less than GOD????How odd

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
You have a god that has a part called God's Son?

How odd.
Mystery Babylon

[Author]

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