lord and god equal terms

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 05 2010,20:38)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 06 2010,04:16) I am beginning to wonder about your scholarship and whether you have done any extensive Biblical study or research or just spent your life with made up numbers and writing and promoting your book? WJ Hi WJ, Beginning? Wasn't that your premise all along? Ed J

Huh,  come to think of it…yep!  

Actually when you started claiming that you had the “Correct” pronunciation of YHWH or YHVH, I had a pretty good clue!

WJ

[Ed J]

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 07 2010,03:04)

ED J said: Quote Now what we have presented here is a very interesting yes/no? Since you say there is no bridge? Please explain this very interesting new dichotomy? On the one hand you say (standardized trinity doctrine) Jesus is equal with God (John 10:29 / John14:28), and on the other hand you say though we are Gods Children, Christ cannot raise us up to equality status? (Philip.2:6) Please indulge for us people with “only” half intelligence, and explain this perceived discrepancy? TO ALL: I am committed to defining all things within their biblical context. ED J left out that we are also CRUCIFIED with Christ. Yet it is His suffering and death ALONE that saves men. It would be insane to infer that our crucifixion with Christ makes us “Savior” with Him.  Likewise, it is erroneous to infer that our resurrection with Christ makes us “Lord” with Him. Our death, burial and resurrection with Christ has limited reference to our relationship to sin: “For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the [ikeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin”[/u] Romans 6:5. I am done engaging with ED J. It's like playing chess with someone who doesn't know the basic principles of the game. The so called “discrepancy” is ED J's mind because he does not know the basic principles of biblical interpretation. thinker

Hi Thinker,

I do appreciate you going into depth explaining your reasoning for your belief.
These last two responses of yours to me are what Bible Study are all about.

Perhaps as new issues present themselves you will be inclined to indulge(engage) them as well.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 07 2010,06:22)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 05 2010,20:38) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 06 2010,04:16) I am beginning to wonder about your scholarship and whether you have done any extensive Biblical study or research or just spent your life with made up numbers and writing and promoting your book? WJ Hi WJ, Beginning? Wasn't that your premise all along? Ed J Huh,  come to think of it…yep!   Actually when you started claiming that you had the “Correct” pronunciation of YHWH or YHVH, I had a pretty good clue! WJ

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 09 2010,06:11)

On another thread ED J said: Quote Hi WJ, I do appreciate you going into depth explaining your reasoning for your belief. These last two responses of yours to me are what Bible Study are all about. Perhaps as new issues present themselves you will be inclined to indulge(engage) them as well. On this thread ED J said: Quote It seems every time I engage you in conversation, you seem to drop all involvement in the thread? Why is that, no signs of weakness on my part perhaps? thinker

Hi Thinker,

Here's another.

Ed J

[david]

Quote

Kerwin, Have you noticed the problem with the Majority text (KJV)? It says “the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.” If God is your “only” Lord then how can Jesus Christ be your Lord too?

And how can all those other people that are called “lord's” be “lords?”

Come to think of it, how can certain people and nations be called “holy” since the Bible says God alone is holy?

hmmmm.

I find this to be the same sad old argument: 2 individuals described by the same word (and once again, a word that others are also described with) and therefore, these 2 must really be 1.

[942767]

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 05 2010,11:08)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 05 2010,09:45) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 02 2010,17:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 03 2010,06:16) Hi TT, If Jesus was your Lord you would be less confused about WHO your God is. 1Cor8 I Jesus your “only Master and Lord?” thinker Hey Jack I am not ashamed of who Jesus is! Yes according to Jude 1:4, 5 Jesus is my only “Master and Lord” and according to John 20:28 and Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 he is my “Great God and Savour”. “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deut 6:4 No man can say that Jesus is Lord (YHWH) but by the Holy Spirit! 1 Cor 12:3 WJ Amen Keith, I know that you are not ashammed to confess Jesus as your Lord. But the many here who claim they have the truth are ashamed. Paul said, “For if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.” Jack

Hi thethinker:

Believe in your heart that “Who”? raised him from the dead you shall be saved?

Eph 4:6 (There is)one God and Father of all, who is above all(including Jesus), and through all, and in you [fn] all.(born again believers)

Is this “Greek” to you? How do you read?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Hi thinker, and WJ:

Jesus told us who was “his” God as well as “ours”.  Don't you believe him?

Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “

I am not trying to bail Nick but you out.  

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

wj
THIS IS jOHN THE LOVED APOSTLE ,DO YOU NOT BELIEVE HIM??
John;20;17

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,20:43)

Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 05 2010,11:08) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 05 2010,09:45) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 02 2010,17:27) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 03 2010,06:16) Hi TT, If Jesus was your Lord you would be less confused about WHO your God is. 1Cor8 I Jesus your “only Master and Lord?” thinker Hey Jack I am not ashamed of who Jesus is! Yes according to Jude 1:4, 5 Jesus is my only “Master and Lord” and according to John 20:28 and Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 he is my “Great God and Savour”. “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deut 6:4 No man can say that Jesus is Lord (YHWH) but by the Holy Spirit! 1 Cor 12:3 WJ Amen Keith, I know that you are not ashammed to confess Jesus as your Lord. But the many here who claim they have the truth are ashamed. Paul said, “For if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.” Jack Hi thethinker: Believe in your heart that “Who”? raised him from the dead you shall be saved? Eph 4:6 (There is)one God and Father of all, who is above all(including Jesus), and through all, and in you [fn] all.(born again believers) Is this “Greek” to you?  How do you read? Love in Christ, Marty

Marty………..Good post , it really is Just that simple. Brother.

peace and love…………gene

[Elizabeth]

There always has been so much confusion about Lord, God, and Word and Master.  There are two Scriptures that are clear when Jesus is called God.  Hebrew 1:8 and John 1:1 verse 14 tells us that the Word became flesh, so we know it has to be Jesus.  When we know that both have other names, and that we know that in Ancient times many were called God, its a title.  We can also see it as a Family name, since we are called the Son's of God.  Now how about Lord.   Check in the Old Testament and you will see that in several Scriptures the LORD is in Capital letters. That is the Father.  While in the New Testament Lord is Jesus. Seeing it that way there is no confusion.  Also in Ephesians 4:6 it says that God our Father is above all.
Peace and Love Irene

[mikeboll64]

Hi, Elizabeth!

 There seems to be some confusion about the name of God.  Alot of people seem to think the word lord means, or is the name of God.  In Exodus 3:14, God tells Moses at the burning bush that His name is, “I am who I am” or “I will be what I will be” (depending on the translation).  That personal name of God Almighty is, in the Hebrew language, the letters YHWH.  These four Hebrew letters are commonly referred to as the “tetragrammaton”.  In English, they are sometimes pronounced as Yahweh, but more often as Jehovah.  In Exodus 3:15, Jehovah goes on to tell Moses, “…This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation.”  

Most Bible translations don't use the name Jehovah anymore.  The reasons why can be summed up by the preface of the Revised Standard Version.  It says that while the original American Standard Version rendered the tetragrammaton as Jehovah, their revised version uses the word LORD in all capital letters for two reasons:

1.  “…the word Jehovah does not accurately represent any form of the name ever used in Hebrew.”

Well, neither does Jesus or any other biblical name.

2.  “…the use of any proper name for the one and only God, as though there were other gods from whom he had to be distinguished, was discontinued in Judaism before the Christian era and is entirely inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church.”

Wouldn't it be cool if everyone kept using the personal name that God gave us for Himself?  Then, maybe the Trinitarians wouldn't be so confused about who God is.

Anyway, just so you know, when you read LORD, it means Jehovah, God's pesonal name.  When you read lord, it could mean anyone from God to your landlord.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,04:56)

Hi thinker, and WJ: Jesus told us who was “his” God as well as “ours”.  Don't you believe him? Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “ I am not trying to bail Nick but you out.   Love in Christ, Marty

Marty

The scriptures call Jesus God, do you believe this?

Interesting, the scripture you quote, for in the same chapter Jesus didn't correct Thomas and give him the same information but instead blessed him when…

Thomas *said unto him*, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:28, 29

Notice the Narrator John the witness says clearly “Thomas *said unto him*“, there is no wiggle room for any other interpretation.

You can say there is but that would only be inference the very thing that Trinitarians are accused of!

John also is the one that wrote John 1:1 clearly showing Jesus the Word that was with God is God!

You do not have to believe it, but you have no proof that what I say is not true.

The scriptures call Jesus God, and if he is not God then it would be Idolatry, or blasphemy to do so.

If he is “a god” in any sense and not the “True God” (1 John 5:20) then according to the Mosaic Law that would be Idolatry!

Tell me Marty if I call Jesus “my Lord and my God”, am I breaking the scriptures?

Blessings WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
So much for theory.
But do you know GOD and His Son??

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 31 2010,02:50)

Hi WJ, So much for theory. But do you know GOD and His Son??

You can't know God without knowing Jesus!!!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Jesus called men to come to him so receive eternal life.
The Son of man was given of that Spirit and gives life to all God's children.
But you must repent of false gods such as trinity and be reborn of water and the Spirit into him.

[Elizabeth]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 31 2010,18:27)

Quote (942767 @ Jan. 30 2010,04:56) Hi thinker, and WJ: Jesus told us who was “his” God as well as “ours”.  Don't you believe him? Jhn 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to MY GOD AND YOUR GOD' “ I am not trying to bail Nick but you out.   Love in Christ, Marty Marty The scriptures call Jesus God, do you believe this? Interesting, the scripture you quote, for in the same chapter Jesus didn't correct Thomas and give him the same information but instead blessed him when… Thomas *said unto him*, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. John 20:28, 29 Notice the Narrator John the witness says clearly “Thomas *said unto him*“, there is no wiggle room for any other interpretation. You can say there is but that would only be inference the very thing that Trinitarians are accused of! John also is the one that wrote John 1:1 clearly showing Jesus the Word that was with God is God! You do not have to believe it, but you have no proof that what I say is not true. The scriptures call Jesus God, and if he is not God then it would be Idolatry, or blasphemy to do so. If he is “a god” in any sense and not the “True God” (1 John 5:20) then according to the Mosaic Law that would be Idolatry! Tell me Marty if I call Jesus “my Lord and my God”, am I breaking the scriptures? Blessings WJ

W.J. I do know that some are having problems with the word God. God is a title and there are many God's. Even Satan is called the God of this World. Jesus is the Son of God and yes, His Father in Hebrew 1:8 called Him God. But He is not Jehovah God. We have Scripture like Ephesians 4:6 that tell us that the Father is above all.
Deut. 4:35 “Unto thee it is shewed, that thou mightiest know that the LORD He is God;there is none beside Him.”
Deut. 4:4 “Hear O Israel, The LORD our God is one LORD.
Notice in both Scriptures LORD is in Capital Letters. That is not Jesus. When it is Jesus it is Lord.
1 Corinth. 8:4 ” And that there is none other God but one.”
Some might say it is contradicting, but I know that God and LORD means The Almighty one and Mighty God is Jesus.

We also know that the Trinity is a man made doctrine and not of God. It seems that when someone believes in the trinity no matter what you put in front of them they will not believe any other way. i do know how hard it is to come out of a system. We came out of the Catholic Church and lost all of our Friends because of it. But it really does not matter at all, We found new Friends.

Peace and Love Irene

[JustAskin]

Hi all,

Who has the Holy Spirit when they post in this forum?

If you have the Holy Spirit , no question is hard to answer (I say 'hard' as Satan is a truly wiley one – those who will be convinced will be convinced)

The main problem is that there is little to no acknowledgement of truth in 'your opponent's' posts.

E.g. WJ is correct that if Jesus is not God then worshipping him is idolatry.
Noone acknowledged this as truth and we will all do well to remember this!

Also, WJ asked if saying to someone 'my lord and my God' is breaking Scripture?
Why has noone responded to his question? Ok, I will answer:

The answer is bound to Intent!

If the exaltation is simply to acknowledge another person as one being of greater skill or learning than oneself, then, apart from the over-exuberant use of the title 'God', where is the issue.
(a 'master' computer programmer is called a 'Guru', a 'God', a 'Wizard'…)
This reverance towards another of the same kind and comes from the fact that we are all 'gods'.

Notice that the phrase say '…my God'. 'My God'… 'You are the god that I make you!'

Now, if one is reverencing Almighty God, then it is reasonable to believe that the exalter is making a distinction between his precept of God and those of others. Exhalting 'his god' as 'The God' ('my God').

Browsing through other topics, you may have come across my rather whymsical mini-story (no, it is not true that I know, it is for illustration only…):

A man, driven crazy by his neighbours who constantly taunt him, one day gives vent to his spirit.

His spirit returns to him just as the police come to arrest the man.

He looks down at himself, blooded, gory, machete in hand and says to his spirit 'my God, what have you done!'

[JustAskin]

A problem that is not addressed is the fact that the language we use today does not include 'my lord' and 'my God' in everyday usage.

In the time of Jesus and in David's this were perfectly acceptable phraseology(”my Lord and my God”,”God, your God”,”your throne, O God (o mighty one)”)

[Elizabeth]

Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 31 2010,22:16)

Hi all, Who has the Holy Spirit when they post in this forum? If you have the Holy Spirit , no question is hard to answer (I say 'hard' as Satan is a truly wiley one – those who will be convinced will be convinced) The main problem is that there is little to no acknowledgement of truth in 'your opponent's' posts. E.g. WJ is correct that if Jesus is not God then worshipping him is idolatry. Noone acknowledged this as truth and we will all do well to remember this! Also, WJ asked if saying to someone 'my lord and my God' is breaking Scripture? Why has noone responded to his question? Ok, I will answer: The answer is bound to Intent! If the exaltation is simply to acknowledge another person as one being of greater skill or learning than oneself, then, apart from the over-exuberant use of the title 'God', where is the issue. (a 'master' computer programmer is called a 'Guru', a 'God', a 'Wizard'…) This reverance towards another of the same kind and comes from the fact that we are all 'gods'. Notice that the phrase say '…my God'. 'My God'… 'You are the god that I make you!' Now, if one is reverencing Almighty God, then it is reasonable to believe that the exalter is making a distinction between his precept of God and those of others. Exhalting 'his god' as 'The God' ('my God'). Browsing through other topics, you may have come across my rather whymsical mini-story (no, it is not true that I know, it is for illustration only…): A man, driven crazy by his neighbours who constantly taunt him, one day gives vent to his spirit. His spirit returns to him just as the police come to arrest the man. He looks down at himself, blooded, gory, machete in hand and says to his spirit 'my God, what have you done!'

Justaskin! There is only on true God and that is our Heavenly Father who is above all Ephesians 4:6. Most on this site have been born again from above. The Holy Spirit of God the Father will convict us all. However we do not all grow at the same pace. Most do not learn from those who know and give Scriptures that are sound. So consider that…..
Peace and Love Irene

[JustAskin]

Thank you, Elizabeth, I agree and will consider more deeply what you say.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (JustAskin @ Jan. 31 2010,06:41)

A problem that is not addressed is the fact that the language we use today does not include 'my lord' and 'my God' in everyday usage. In the time of Jesus and in David's this were perfectly acceptable phraseology(”my Lord and my God”,”God, your God”,”your throne, O God (o mighty one)”)

JA

The problem you have with your statement is there is no New Testament examples of any of the Apostles or followers of Jesus calling any other being other than the Father and Jesus “Their personal Lord, Master, and God”!

In one case Herod was eaten with worms for men calling him a god and he failing to give God the glory!

And upon a set day Herod, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne, and made an oration unto them. And the people gave a shout, saying, It is “the voice of a god, and not of a man“. And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: “and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost“. Acts 12:21-23

This is proof that no other creature other than God should be given the title God unless he is God!

Paul said…

So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that “there is no God but one” even “if there are so‑called gods whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),. 1 Cor 8:4, 5

All other gods were man made and so-called gods.

Jesus did not give the Father glory when Thomas said to him “my Lord and my God“. HMMM?  Why wasn't Jesus eaten with worms?

Paul said he was a “bondslave” of Jesus, a prisoner of Jesus.

In the Hebrew faith such devotion to any being other than God would be idolatry!

Yet Jesus said….

That all men should “honour the Son, **even as** they honour the Father“. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 5:23

If Jesus is not God then the Jews were right for saying he blasphemes for making himself equal to God!

Blessings WJ

[Author]

Posts