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Quote (Lightenup @ July 09 2013,16:20) jb,
The Granville Sharpe rule is talking about when there is a referent with the two nouns.Quote In native Greek constructions (i.e., not translation Greek), when a single article modifies two substantives connected by kai (thus, article-substantive-kai-substantive), when both substantives are (1) singular (both grammatically and semantically), (2) personal, (3) and common nouns (not proper names or ordinals), they have the same referent. ^[2]^ Do you know what a referent is? In your so-called proof verses, there are no referents.
ref·er·ent (rfr-nt, r-fûrnt)
n.
A person or thing to which a linguistic expression refers.So, you still have not provided any proof to truly challenge the Granville Sharp rule.
Again, Sharp was on a self-serving mission to “prove” that Jesus is God.Did this “rule” exist prior to the “discovery”? I submit that it could not have existed!
In baseball, there is no rule that states players must bat in the numerical order of their jersey number. Now, if I happen to notice that players have always batted in numerical order, does that mean it is a rule? OR, does it mean that I just noticed something that was “not a rule” and then “made it a rule.”
Furthermore, the “rule” is so limiting that it makes no logical sense. It would be no less ridiculous if Sharp said that his “rule” only applied when reading on Thursday.
That being said, you can put your faith in Sharp. I will continue to put my faith in God!! If God's word says that He is one and that His SON died for my sins, I will believe that. The Bible does not say that God came to Earth as man and died for my sins! The Bible says that WE must believe that GOD sent His only begotten Son to die for our sins!!
Quote (Lightenup @ July 09 2013,16:20) Quote I never said that Jesus is not a theos. I didn't say that you did. I said that you said Jesus was a theos to 'no one'. Can you admit that? It is written publicly on the forum. If you deny this, I will find it and you might be embarrassed, so why not just admit that you did in fact say this.
Please answer:
So, again, can you admit that you said that Jesus was a theos to 'no one'? Yes or No
You are misinterpreting my words. Jesus is a theos. You can even say that he is “your theos”, BUT ONLY IF you are saying that He has authority over you BY ORDER OF GOD!!IF, HOWEVER, you are saying that Jesus is “your theos”, as in your “ho theos”, then you are wrong in the eyes of God!!
It's really not that hard to understand!! “Theos” is JUST A WORD!! However, to BE God is NOT, it is a concept!!
IF you are saying Jesus is your theos and by this you mean that He is your GOD..then you are wrong.
IF you are saying that Jesus is your theos and by this you mean that He has been appointed by God over you, then I have no problem with that!!
What is your obsession with “embarrassing” me? It really comes off kind of weird and unchristian like!! I never claimed to be perfect or never to misspeak (mistype?). I would think your time would be better spent trying to “help me” see the truth as oppose to trying to “embarrass” me!! Think about it!!
Quote Also, please answer this:
Can you admit that you have changed your mind from thinking that Jesus is a theos to no one and now believe that Jesus is our theos?No. As stated above, I did not change my mind. I merely clarified my point!!
Quote Who is saying that Jesus is the Almighty God, YHVH, our Father? Not myself or the trinitarians. We say Jesus is the Almighty God, YHVH, the Son…our Savior and Lord.
This just does NOT make any sense to me!! You say..
He is not the Almighty God..He is the Almighty God, the Son??If you believe that He is the Almighty God the Son, then you still believe that He is Almighty God!! There IS a HUGE difference between “God the Son” and “Son of God”. Do you not see this? One IS God and one is the Son of that God!!
Quote (Lightenup @ July 09 2013,16:20) Quote ANYONE who God GIVES authority to is a THEOS. I would dare say you cannot find that in scripture. Please show us where you think it says this.
This is a VERY basic Biblical concept!! Do you really not know that ALL authority comes from God?Even satan is called “theos” in 2 Cor 4:4.
Why? Because even satan is given power over this world for a time. By whom is he “given this power”? God did!!God anointed all the judges, thus given them power on this Earth to judge, right? And thus, “there are gods many and lords many” so says GOD!! Again this is a very clear Biblical concept!!
Quote Quote That being said, He still is NOT YHVH. And, you can NOT find one place in the HOLY BIBLE that states that He is YHVH. Even Jesus, did not claim to be God!! So, who will be called Yahweh our Righteousness then if not Jesus according to this scripture:
5Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land.
Jeremiah 23:6In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely; and this is his name whereby he shall be called: Jehovah our righteousness.
Do you not recall that we already went over this? God says that He GIVES HIS NAME to Jesus and ISRAEL and others that REPRESENT HIM!! It does not say THEY ARE HIM. He ONLY gives HIS NAME to them!!
Quote Quote He said that the true worshipers will worship the Father!! You reject this!! Where have I rejected this? I worship the Father, the trinitarians worship the Father. We also worship our God and Savior, Jesus Christ. So did the disciples.
You do reject it. He did not say “and will worship me” now did He?
Quote (Lightenup @ July 09 2013,16:27) Quote (jb2u @ July 03 2013,15:51) Here is another question for you.. Understand this verse..
Psalm 83:18
18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.Now, can Jehovah have a name “ALONE” if it is shared between two beings?
May His Spirit guide you.
Like I have shown you, the Jews understood two powers in Heaven and each were referred to as Jehovah/Yahweh.Quote
Two Powers in Heaven: Early Rabbinic Reports about Christianity and Gnosticism
by Alan F. SegalIn his now classic Two Powers in Heaven, Alan Segal examines rabbinic evidence about early manifestations of the “two powers” heresy within Judaism. Segal sheds light upon the development of and relationships among early Christianity, Gnosticism, and Merkabah mysticism and demonstrates that belief in the “two powers in heaven” was widespread by the first century, and may have been a catalyst for the Jewish rejection of early Christianity. An important addition to New Testament and Gnostic scholarship by this much revered scholar, Segal's Two Powers in Heaven is made available once again for a new generation.
Quote Now, can Jehovah have a name “ALONE” if it is shared between two beings?
If it is a name also of a unity of two beings, yes.
Yes..I remember reading..“Hear, O Israel: the LORD is our God, the LORD is TWO in one”
Ephesians 4:6
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.Now, I ask, how can there be one God and Father of all if you believe that Jesus is God, too?
Quote (jb2u @ May 19 2013,23:22) Quote (Lightenup @ May 19 2013,16:46) David calls this one that comes as his descendant “Lord.” Since David calls Him Lord, how is it that He is his son? The pharisees were silenced by this question.
Revelations is a book to give further 'revelation' of Jesus. Jesus reveals in the last chapter that He is the root and offspring of David.
David knew that his descendant would be made Lord of Lords and King of kings.Let's say that you have a son (I'm not sure if you do), God reveals to you that your son will be the Messiah, the Lord of lords. Will you NOT refer to your son as Lord??
Let me make this clear, we are ALL sons of God!! My kids are God's. He has given me the honor to raise and teach them about God, Jesus, and the coming Kingdom!! On Earth, my kids belong to me, but ultimately, now and for eternity, they BELONG to Him!! Is that clear??
Jesus IS the beginning. For, without Jesus, we would not have had a beginning. Jesus is the end. For, He finished the act of the sacrifice so that we may all have eternal life.
Do you see? GOD knew before He ever spoke His creation into existence that man would fall. GOD would not have even created the world or man if He would not have already known that there would be a Messiah to atone for the sin of man. It is because of this foreknown Messiah that He went ahead and created the world. And so, we have the Messiah to thank for His sacrifice. For because of His sacrifice, we are and will be forever! And so, He IS the beginning and the end!!
Jb2u…….Amen, Amen, you have explained it right brother, I want to forewarn you concerning the debate you have with Terricca, T8, and Mike, All three believe Jesus was a preexistent being, and that he is a God also. If I try to quote into those posts to help support your and my views here they will simply remove the posts, it would be better if you opened it up to others who see the scriptures as you do, I have for over 10years supported here the truth you are expounding . Just want to say there are others here who see it as you do also brother. Your doing an excellent job brother of expounding the scriptures right. IMOPeace and love to you and your………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 15 2013,01:08) David knew that his descendant would be made Lord of Lords and King of kings. Let's say that you have a son (I'm not sure if you do), God reveals to you that your son will be the Messiah, the Lord of lords. Will you NOT refer to your son as Lord??
Let me make this clear, we are ALL sons of God!! My kids are God's. He has given me the honor to raise and teach them about God, Jesus, and the coming Kingdom!! On Earth, my kids belong to me, but ultimately, now and for eternity, they BELONG to Him!! Is that clear??
Jesus IS the beginning. For, without Jesus, we would not have had a beginning. Jesus is the end. For, He finished the act of the sacrifice so that we may all have eternal life.
Do you see? GOD knew before He ever spoke His creation into existence that man would fall. GOD would not have even created the world or man if He would not have already known that there would be a Messiah to atone for the sin of man. It is because of this foreknown Messiah that He went ahead and created the world. And so, we have the Messiah to thank for His sacrifice. For because of His sacrifice, we are and will be forever! And so, He IS the beginning and the end!![/quote]
Jb2u…….Amen, Amen, you have explained it right brother, I want to forewarn you concerning the debate you have with Terricca, T8, and Mike, All three believe Jesus was a preexistent being, and that he is a God also. If I try to quote into those posts to help support your and my views here they will simply remove the posts, it would be better if you opened it up to others who see the scriptures as you do, I have for over 10years supported here the truth you are expounding . Just want to say there are others here who see it as you do also brother. Your doing an excellent job brother of expounding the scriptures right. IMOPeace and love to you and your………………………..gene
Since LU seems to have left this debate, I will post this here!First, thank you for the support and kind words.
Second, I am sure the day will come to “open up” that discussion. For now though, we need to keep it closed. It is hard enough for me to keep up with what t8 says versus what Mike has said. It would only make things even more difficult to “keep up with” if there is another person in the debate at this time.
I do not want to repeat something that you have already stated. I am sure this would happen if you were posting in there now. Again, I appreciate the support. For now, I only pray that either they are no longer blinded to the truth or that I am no longer blinded.
The thing about the spiritually blind is that they do not know that they are blinded. Many, including myself, walk in what we believe to be truth, but we must be careful where we step; for, we may be the ones that can not see!!
We can not fault the blinded or boast of our own sight. God will reveal the truth to those that seek with a pure heart.
jb2u……….Amen brother. God does reveal to, and Keep his own, i get anxious and want to jump in and support what you are saying to T8 and Mike, but as you say, it would probably only spread out the debate and make it more difficult for you, Your doing a good Job brother standing for the truth that has been given you IMO, I hope and Pray that T8 and Mike will come to see this truth about Jesus' non preexistence. I will just follow closely the debate and if i do have some input i believe need to be said, i will privately Email it you brother.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………….gene
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