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Ezekiel 28 first addresses the ‘prince of Tyre’ (Ezekiel 28:1-10) and then shifts to address the ‘king of Tyre’ (Ezekiel 28:11-19).
They are one and the same. Did you find the parallels between both prophecies? Studying is your friend.
The first section about the prince of Tyre is directed at a human ruler who is proud and claims to be like a god. The second section, addressed to the king of Tyre, uses language that many see as going beyond a human figure, describing him as being in Eden and as an ‘anointed cherub who covers’ which seems describe an angel.
Agreed, Ezekiel specifies a ‘prince’ (28:2) and a ‘king’ (28:11) for whom the prophecy is against. As said above, they are the same individual with a different title used. For example, in 2 Samuel 5:2-3, both titles are used for David; 2 Samuel 6:21 & 7:8, David is referred to as “prince” even though at this point he is king. To claim the prophecy is against two individuals looses credibility in light of these examples, unless you have scriptural references to support the claim it is two separate people.
It makes sense because the description of the human ruler seems to shift towards the ultimate source of that nature and its sin of pride.
How does the “sin of pride” suddenly make it about Satan? What I can’t get passed concerning the passages being a reference to Satan are the words written. It begins with G-d saying “sing a lament for the king of Tyre, and say to him“; after G-d explicitly addressed the king, he says “you”; who is the “you”? In verses 12-19 “you” or “your” is said 37 times. We can’t throw grammar to the wind because we don’t like what it says or it doesn’t fit what one’s religion thinks it says. We must apply the words written for what they say without adding our own thoughts and interpretations to it AND one MUST read the words in the context they are written otherwise we end up where we are now, making assumptions and twisting what G-d said.
This passage is poetic, metaphorical, hyperbole, an allusion; pick one. What it’s not, is literal and simply grabbing two small phrases out of the entire passage to create something that isn’t there is…religion!
If we read the words written as they are written, we all will have the same understanding and the world wouldn’t be filled with 40,000 different religions all claiming to be right. The day is coming when “the earth will be full of the knowledge of Yahweh, as the waters cover the sea.”(Isa 11:9) and for conformation, “the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of Yahweh, like the waters covering the sea”(Hab 2:14). What a great day to look forward to, when all mankind will know who G-d is and worship HIM alone! This will only happen when the true Messiah comes.
Concerning your second reply to the “ruler of this world”; I asked for proof from the Tanakh NOT the NT. I want where G-d said Satan is the ruler of this world a not man, which is who you quoted.
I thought you knew I’ve rejected the NT entirely from the inconsistencies I’ve pointed out; if you didn’t, now you do. Do you have anything where G-d calls Satan the ruler of this world?
Then it switches to the anointed cherub–Angel is an anointed cherub= the lead cherub. 28:14–he is the one who was in the garden) of Eden)- He is the one who fell.
@Keith,
So you didn’t read the passage in the context it was written and believe only what your religion told you to believe…understood. Hoping you would elaborate on who the “you” is…Oh well, I can’t make you verify anything; you have to want truth verses religion. Remember, I walked the christian lifestyle for 40 years before my eyes where opened; never to late, G-d waits with open arms for you to return to HIM.I asked you to read Isaiah chapter 7 and summarize it; did you at least read it and ponder?
Let’s talk about Isaiah chapter 53…that’s a fun one!
We could verify the words in the book of Hebrews…I ripped that book out of my bible.
Take a look at I Cor 15:3-4 and let me know where the passage is Paul is referring to when he say “according to scripture.” Remember the only scripture available was the Tanakh.
We could delve into whether or not the Jesus fulfilled what was spoken of the true Messiah.
Does G-d ever speak of eternal damnation?
Do angels have “freewill”?
Daniel 9 is another hot topic.
We could at the book of Revelation chapter 1:3 and 22:7,12,20 and ask if the Jesus did what he said and “come quickly.”
There’s Psalm 110 verse Matthew 22:41-46 comparison.
Pick one or come up with another topic; let’s look to see if what we have been taught is really “light” or if it’s “darkness.”
So much to talk about, but so little anyone wants to really delve into.
I find it humorous you saying our discussion on Ezekiel “isn’t going anywhere.” It isn’t going anywhere because you’re not answering the questions. Are you afraid of what you will find and that it WON’T align with what you have been told is truth? Here’s the wonderful news, once you discover the truth, you will have freedom from the shackles of religion.
God has always had 1 religion ever since the Israelite religion of the OT–They apostatized and are to this day. Jesus started 1 new one. If not taught by these, one remains in darkness.
They (Isaelite’s) apostatized and are to this day.
I need clarification of this statement, are you saying the Jewish people abandoned G-d or G-d abandoned them?
Jesus started 1 new one (religion).
What is the one new religion, if one doesn’t follow, they’re in darkness?
The Jewish religion is apostatized to this day–Jesus told them off at Matt 23 and until they do verse 39 they are cut off( verse 38) of being Gods chosen.
So yes 1 single new religion ( 1Cor 1:10)started, they serve the same God Israel served=YHVH(Jehovah) a single being God.
It’s not about creating a new religion, but above all about creating a new people for the glory of God. The foundation is God’s commandments and the faith of Jesus.(Rev.14:12)
The Jewish religion is apostatized to this day–Jesus told them off at Matt 23 and until they do verse 39 they are cut off( verse 38) of being Gods chosen.
I don’t think we have the same understanding of the word “apostasy”; when you say the “religion” is apostatized I am confused. Apostasy is to “abandon one’s religious faith”, so a “religion” cannot be apostate, the people of that faith can. To say all Jewish people have abandoned G-d is false. There are many Jewish people today who follow the commands of G-d; both Moses and John said they’re easy to follow.
What do the religious leaders saying “blessed is he” to the Jesus have to do with being “restored”? The Jesus made this into a command verses what Psalm 118:26 says, a condition of the individual who knows it’s G-d who saves (read the Psalm in context).
So who are G-d’s chosen today?
So yes 1 single new religion ( 1Cor 1:10) started, they serve the same God Israel served=YHVH(Jehovah) a single being God.
Again, what is the name of this new religion? You quote I Cor 1:10: Now I exhort you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all say the same thing and there not be divisions among you, and that you be made complete in the same mind and with the same purpose. The WHOLE of christianity may want read this passage and apply it; “that you all say the same thing and there not be divisions among you.” How many different flavors of “chrisitanity” are there, with each claiming what they believe is the ONLY truth, and arguing over who’s doctrines (interpretations) are more right.
The Jesus did accomplish what he said was going to do when he said: “Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other!” Infighting and division is what he has created within his “church.” In this one statement the Jesus confirms he isn’t the true Messiah; the true Messiah is to bring peace to the world. Wait, he’ll bring peace when he returns the second time; that is until one read the book of Revelation where there is destruction and torment – not sounding to peaceful to me. But wait, the peace come during the 1000 year reign of the Jesus; that’s until we get to the end when “Satan is released again” and more judgment and destruction upon mankind; when does this “peace” happen? Sounds like fear driven religion.
Now let’s read from G-d and what he said, “And it shall be from new moon to new moon and from Sabbath to Sabbath, that all flesh shall come to prostrate themselves before Me, says the Lord.” It says ALL FLESH, not only those who believe in the Jesus or those who believe they have the one “true religion” and will receive special honors for being such; pick your religious flavor, each believes they’re the special ones.
What people must start doing is verifying what they have been told is truth, read the Tanakh and find out what G-d really said, and confirm what’s written in the NT aligns with the Tanakh. The Tanakh is the foundation for truth and everything must align to it; if it doesn’t, it’s junk and must be gotten rid of because it’s a lie.
Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. Matthew 10:34.
The question has been asked, How can there be agreement between the statement, “I came not to send peace, but a sword,” and the song sung by the angels when Christ was born in the manger at Bethlehem, “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men”? The song of the angels is in harmony with the words of the prophet Isaiah, who, when he predicted the birth of Christ, declared Him to be the Prince of peace. The gospel is a glorious message of peace and goodwill to men; the blessing that Christ came to bring was that of harmony and peace. He left His throne of glory, and clothed His divinity with humanity, that He might bring back from apostasy to loyalty to God the children of men, and bind their hearts together and to the heart of Infinite Love. He came to present to a fallen world the remedy for sin, so that whosoever should believe on Him should not perish, but by becoming one with Him and the Father should have everlasting life….
The condition of the world at the time when Christ came into the walks of humanity was no exceptional condition. At that time the Scriptures had been buried beneath human traditions, and Christ declared that those who professed to interpret the Word of God were ignorant both of the Scriptures and of the power of God….
Christ presented to His countrymen and to the world brightness, beauty, and holiness, the divine nature, by which they might be bound close to the heart of Infinite Love. He brought light into the world to dispel spiritual darkness and to reveal truth…. The truth, which was to restore and renew, is a destroyer of evil; and when evil is persistently cherished, it becomes a destroyer of the sinner also….
Sinners’ perversity, their resistance of the truth, makes the mission of Christ appear to be what He announced to His disciples—the sending of a sword upon the earth; but the strife is not the effect of Christianity, but the result of opposition in the hearts of those who will not receive its blessings.
From the first presentation of Christianity to the world, there has been a deadly warfare instituted against it…. Those who suffer for the truth know the value of a pure gospel,a free Bible, and liberty of conscience.
🙏
Its not Jesus’ Fault that men’s hearts are far removed from Gods will and have hate towards their brothers= the sword in a sense. Jesus said even members of ones own household( family) would be enemies( spiritual)– one doesn’t hate them but need to help them see the light if possible.
In nothing you copied and pasted does it explain the inconsistencies of the Jesus words saying he came to divide and not bring peace to what the true Messiah is to do, and that is to bring peace to the world and unit mankind in worship of G-d
Your writer continues on with nonsense by stating Isaiah predicted the birth of the Jesus, provide the passage.
The writer continues with, “He left His throne of glory, and clothed His divinity with humanity.” If the Jesus is “divine”, he would not be of the seed of David as G-d said the Messiah would be; thus making him a false messiah.
What peace did the Jesus bring when he overturned the tables at the Temple…pieces as he destroyed others property and didn’t make restitution (breaking one of G-d’s commands), but definitely NOT peace. Or when he crossed the sea of Galilee, met a man (or was it two) possessed by demons, cast the demons into a herd of hogs, that ran into the sea and drowned, and in the process destroyed the food supply for this village (another command of G-d’s broken). Have you never wondered why the people begged the Jesus to leave or did one miss that part? His own actions convict him of NOT being the true Messiah.
The writer then concludes with “Sinners’ perversity, their resistance of the truth, makes the mission of Christ appear to be what He announced to His disciples—the sending of a sword upon the earth.” The sword the Jesus brings is resistance to the truth?!?! What a laughable statement; the Jesus wasn’t speaking metaphorically about bringing a sword or dividing families, he was speaking literally – read the Matthew and Luke passages.
It’s easy to see thru the lies of christianity when one studies and verifies.
Why are you also afraid to answer questions? I specifically asked:
What do the religious leaders saying “blessed is he” to the Jesus have to do with being “restored”? You said it, please support it.
Who are G-d’s chosen today? I KNOW you have a thought on that one!
Any who serve the true God, then do and teach things against his will=apostate.
How can one being serving G-d but teach against HIM, be serving HIM? Que??
Its not Jesus’ Fault that men’s hearts are far removed from Gods will and have hate towards their brothers
Of course it’s not the Jesus’ fault for man choosing to turn from G-d and hate others, just like it isn’t Satan’s fault for one choosing to be disobedient to G-d’s commands; it belongs to the individual committing the act. You own who you are, your choices and decisions, stop blaming others for your shortcomings, your faults, and your sin.
Concerning your second reply to the “ruler of this world”; I asked for proof from the Tanakh NOT the NT. I want where G-d said Satan is the ruler of this world a not man, which is who you quoted.
Satan appears rarely in the Old Testament, but the messiah had much to say about him.
The Old Testament also says nothing about the earth being a globe, so I guess that earth is flat? Maybe you should understand that the Old Testament does not preach every truth. In fact knowledge is revealed over time and the Old Testament states that. So it predicts that knowledge will increase.
For example, Old Testament does not clearly teach the concepts of Heaven, Hell, and Final Judgment as they are understood in the New Testament and the teachings of the messiah and the prophecies of Revelation.
You stance is similar to someone saying that I do not believe in science after 0 AD. Thus, the sun goes around the earth and the stars are lights in a fixed dome.
Many Pharisees also believed in the Old Testament or Tanakh, but also rejected the messiah.
I think this is the difference between culture and true faith in God.
Agreed, Ezekiel specifies a ‘prince’ (28:2) and a ‘king’ (28:11) for whom the prophecy is against. As said above, they are the same individual with a different title used. For example, in 2 Samuel 5:2-3, both titles are used for David; 2 Samuel 6:21 & 7:8, David is referred to as “prince” even though at this point he is king. To claim the prophecy is against two individuals looses credibility in light of these examples, unless you have scriptural references to support the claim it is two separate people.
It’s common sense that you can refer to someone using their title or another title they hold. However, when multiple titles are used across a few paragraphs, readers are less likely to assume it’s the same person, though it’s still possible. This is because, by default, people tend to assume a change in title in such a short span is changing the subject.
For example, if I said “the President said this” and later wrote “the Chairman of TMTG said that”, most readers would naturally think those are two different people. But in this case, they’re the same person. The result is unnecessary confusion that could have been avoided by being consistent or at least clarifying the connection.
The verses we are talking about do neither. So I doubt your interpretation of these verses and think the only reason you are arguing this has nothing to do with the verses themselves and everything to do with you predefined beliefs being forced into the text.
Judas served the true living God, then turned and sold Gods son–
I never mentioned–blessed is he so i don’t understand your question.
For the most part its the mortals fault, yet this system is ruled by satan influences helping them make bad choices. All make bad choices.
Satan appears rarely in the Old Testament, but the messiah had much to say about him.
Did the Jesus fulfill what was spoken about the Messiah in the Tanakh? If not, can he be called the Messiah; if so, what did he fulfill, please site the passage in the NT and the corresponding passage from the Tanakh?
The Old Testament also says nothing about the earth being a globe, so I guess that earth is flat? Maybe you should understand that the Old Testament does not preach every truth. In fact knowledge is revealed over time and the Old Testament states that. So it predicts that knowledge will increase.
Not speaking of “every truth”; I’m only speaking of the assertion of Satan being the ruler of this world and G-d said HE is the ruler and NOT Satan. (Please note scriptural evidence provided)
Isa 40:21-31 (excerpt vs. 22) “God is the one who rules the whole earth, and we that live here are merely insects.”
Dan 4:32 Nebuchadnezzar is told he is going to graze like an animal until he acknowledges “the Most High is sovereign over the kingdom of humankind and that he gives it to whom he wills.”
Ps 9:7-8 “But Yahweh sits enthroned forever. He has established his throne for judgment. 8 And he will judge the world with righteousness. He will judge the peoples with equity.”
Isa 45:7 “I form light and I create darkness; I make peace and I create evil; I am Yahweh; I do all these things.”
For example, Old Testament does not clearly teach the concepts of Heaven, Hell, and Final Judgment as they are understood in the New Testament and the teachings of the messiah and the prophecies of Revelation.
What does the Tanakh teach, what’s written in the first five books that isn’t still relevant for people today? Why is the NT heavily focused on the afterlife? If Hell is an important place why doesn’t G-d speak of it for 4000 years; why doesn’t HE mention it being a place of eternal damnation; what happens/happened to all those people prior to the Jesus? Concerning a “final judgment”; you may want to do a search on the terms “latter days”,” end of days”, and “last days”, I counted 14 passages where it speaks of the end and G-d judgment on mankind.
Does G-d speak in the NT? What does G-d “teach” of the Messiah in the Tanakh?
Your stance is similar to someone saying that I do not believe in science after 0 AD. Thus, the sun goes around the earth and the stars are lights in a fixed dome.
You saying this continues to solidify the christian world cannot support what they believe. “My stance” is based on what I’m reading and not on what I was told it meant.
Many Pharisees also believed in the Old Testament or Tanakh, but also rejected the messiah.
They rejected the Jesus claiming to be the Messiah; why did they reject the Jesus as the Messiah?
I think this is the difference between culture and true faith in God.
What is the “difference between culture and true faith in G-d”?
Of what I asked (challanged) you to look into, did you?
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