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Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 01 2012,22:17) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2012,06:53) K Quote I believe that the spirit of God is called God’s only begotten and is his creative force as well as being his spirit of love preexisted the existence of Jesus a human being, favored of God. I believe Jesus inherited the title of only begotten when the Spirit came to dwell in him directly. I believe this happened before he was ever tempted to sin as he never did. can you claim this with clear scriptures ,so that your faith lays on the written word of God
T,Are you speaking of a Scripture where the truth is not hidden from certain people?
Kthat is hiding ,this is done by people to hide their own ignorance,nothing else .
their are no secrets in scriptures ,only in the mind of those that read it ,
it seems you do not know God nor his son ,I do not mean there name ,i mean their person,what they stand for,what they teach,what they like ,what they hate,what they love,why do they love us, what are there wishes ,what are their expectation from us,why are we to obey their rules ,?
and more …
T,
Are your words in agreement with Jesus'?
Matthew 13:10-16
King James Version (KJV)10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Kerwin
Quote T, Are your words in agreement with Jesus'?
good question ,DO YOURS
CAN YOU EXPLAIN YOUR OWN QUOTED SCRIPTURES ,OR ARE YOU QUOTE THEM BECAUSE YOU THINK THIS WOULD BE USEFUL AGAINST THIS FELLOW Mt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mt 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.now in verse 12 CHRIST GIVES THE WHY'S;(WHY'1) For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance:(WHY'2) but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
ARE YOU PART OF THIS PROPHECY
THIS IS WHAT IT SAYS IN Isaiah 6;9
Isa 6:9 He said, “Go and tell this people:
“ ‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’
Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”
Isa 6:11 Then I said, “For how long, O Lord?”
And he answered:
“Until the cities lie ruined
and without inhabitant,
until the houses are left deserted
and the fields ruined and ravaged,
Isa 6:12 until the LORD has sent everyone far away
and the land is utterly forsaken.
Isa 6:13 And though a tenth remains in the land,
it will again be laid waste.
But as the terebinth and oak
leave stumps when they are cut down,
so the holy seed will be the stump in the land.”SO NOW WHAT WAS IT THAT CHRIST SAYS THAT IF YOU POSSESS OR HATH AND WILL RECEIVE MORE
IN MY VIEW OF ALL YOUR QUOTES ,TO ME YOU ARE NOT A HONEST TEACHER OR STUDENT,THIS IS A PARADOX ,BECAUSE IF YOU CLAIM TO BE ONE YOU CAN NOT BE THE OTHER,SO YOU ARE A DIVIDED MIND .
I LIKE AND LOVE TO TALK TO SOMEONE THAT IS HONEST AND TRUTHFUL ,RESPOND TO QUESTIONS AS WELL AS ASKING THEM ,NOT LOOKING FOR AN HONORABLE ESCAPE, FOR HIS REFUSAL TO SEE HIS FALSE BELIEVE BEING DESTROYED, OR UNDEFENDED ABLE ,
T,
John 3:17-21
King James Version (KJV)17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
The one that loves darkness is the one who does not seek God's kingdom and righteousness; and so does not come out into the light to see and hear the truth of God's mysteries.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 02 2012,18:36) T, John 3:17-21
King James Version (KJV)17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
The one that loves darkness is the one who does not seek God's kingdom and righteousness; and so does not come out into the light to see and hear the truth of God's mysteries.
Kyou right I give you more credit than you can handle ,
so please study ,more and trust scriptures more ,
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2012,06:53) K Quote I believe that the spirit of God is called God’s only begotten and is his creative force as well as being his spirit of love preexisted the existence of Jesus a human being, favored of God. I believe Jesus inherited the title of only begotten when the Spirit came to dwell in him directly. I believe this happened before he was ever tempted to sin as he never did. can you claim this with clear scriptures ,so that your faith lays on the written word of God
T;Matthew 11:18-19
King James Version (KJV)18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.Do you agree it is clear from this Scripture that Jesus and John the Baptist are conceived and born of Wisdom?
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 02 2012,20:30) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2012,06:53) K Quote I believe that the spirit of God is called God’s only begotten and is his creative force as well as being his spirit of love preexisted the existence of Jesus a human being, favored of God. I believe Jesus inherited the title of only begotten when the Spirit came to dwell in him directly. I believe this happened before he was ever tempted to sin as he never did. can you claim this with clear scriptures ,so that your faith lays on the written word of God
T;Matthew 11:18-19
King James Version (KJV)18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.Do you agree it is clear from this Scripture that Jesus and John the Baptist are conceived and born of Wisdom?
kQuote Do you agree it is clear from this Scripture that Jesus and John the Baptist are conceived and born of Wisdom? you based your understanding to what Jesus said
“”But wisdom is justified of her children”” of cause I disagree with you ;and please explain how you come to that conclusion,
remainder ;you never answered my questions in my previous quotes
T,
* I brought up Matthew 11:18-19 in order to begin to answer your earlier question.
* Just as you summarize, I did base my understanding on Jesus' words.
* I do not follow why you do not agree that John the Baptist and Jesus were conceived and born of Wisdom.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2012,03:07) T, * I brought up Matthew 11:18-19 in order to begin to answer your earlier question.
* Just as you summarize, I did base my understanding on Jesus' words.
* I do not follow why you do not agree that John the Baptist and Jesus were conceived and born of Wisdom.
kQuote * I do not follow why you do not agree that John the Baptist and Jesus were conceived and born of Wisdom. i HAVE ASK YOU TO EXPLAIN IT TO ME WHAT THIS MEANS
SO PLEASE DO ,and please try to be specific with your answers ,your answers are at best vague,
Quote * I brought up Matthew 11:18-19 in order to begin to answer your earlier question. try to put my question next to your answer so I can understand what you are saying .
T,
Jesus and John the Baptist are revealed to have been conceived and born of Wisdom because they are wise; and so exist in her form. The form of Wisdom in them makes Wisdom known to those that observe them.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2012,02:50) T, Jesus and John the Baptist are revealed to have been conceived and born of Wisdom because they are wise; and so exist in her form. The form of Wisdom in them makes Wisdom known to those that observe them.
Kwere is that scripture so I may believe what you say,???
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,18:18) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2012,02:50) T, Jesus and John the Baptist are revealed to have been conceived and born of Wisdom because they are wise; and so exist in her form. The form of Wisdom in them makes Wisdom known to those that observe them.
Kwere is that scripture so I may believe what you say,???
T,We are addressing it in Matthew 13:10-16.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2012,04:41) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,18:18) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2012,02:50) T, Jesus and John the Baptist are revealed to have been conceived and born of Wisdom because they are wise; and so exist in her form. The form of Wisdom in them makes Wisdom known to those that observe them.
Kwere is that scripture so I may believe what you say,???
T,We are addressing it in Matthew 13:10-16.
kQuote Jesus and John the Baptist are revealed to have been conceived and born of Wisdom this is not found in Mathiew 13 or any scriptures
and you did not answered my questions on my quotes on those scriptures go back one page,
T,
Your words reveal that you do not understand that when “children” is replaced by “conceived and born” the meaning does not change.
1 Peter 1:23
King James Version (KJV)23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Birth is when something is revealed.
Conception is when it starts.Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 06 2012,17:09) T, Your words reveal that you do not understand that when “children” is replaced by “conceived and born” the meaning does not change.
1 Peter 1:23
King James Version (KJV)23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Birth is when something is revealed.
Conception is when it starts.
KYou jumping again ,and I can not follow ,you start one thing and switch to another,
So let's finish Mat 13 ,
It also shows you are using your personal understanding ,and this is good but it as to be in scriptures,
T,
Those that follow the true way of Christ are the children of the Word because they are born of it.
Jesus and John the Baptist were conceived and born of Wisdom because they are her children.
We even are told that Jesus grew more mature as a child of Wisdom; as he grew in wisdom.
Do you understand this way of speaking of the relationship of the wise and the doers of the Word to Wisdom and the Word respectively?
Kerwin,
I'm new to this site and I haven't read this entire thread (just skimming).
Your last comments sound odd to me. They are in keeping with the teachings of Theophilus in mid-second century. Do you believe Sophia (Wisdom) to be the same as Pneuma (Spirit)? Is she twin of Logos? Mother of Christ?
Just curious.
May God shine His Light on us all..
Seeking Truth,
JQuote (J_47-2 @ Sep. 06 2012,10:59) Kerwin,
I'm new to this site and I haven't read this entire thread (just skimming).
Your last comments sound odd to me. They are in keeping with the teachings of Theophilus in mid-second century. Do you believe Sophia (Wisdom) to be the same as Pneuma (Spirit)? Is she twin of Logos? Mother of Christ?
Just curious.
May God shine His Light on us all..
Seeking Truth,
J
J,Hello and welcome.
I do not know Theophilus or his works.
I do know it is written:
Isaiah 11:2
King James Version (KJV)2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;
Looking at it; I would say that Wisdom is an aspect of the Spirit. I can also see where Wisdom and God's Word are said to be twins as God's Word is also an aspect of the Spirit; revealed by the fact the prophets spoke the Word as they were carried along by the Spirit.
Kerwin,
I think you sort of answered what I was getting at, THANX.
As for Theophilus, I would NOT reccomend his extant writings. All Eng. translations (3) I've found are skewed toward modern tastes and the Greek doesn't seem to be available online. Also he was considered a heretic in his own lifetime.
I however, am not truly worthy to give advice on such matters. My knowledge of Scripture is elementary at best. It is only my taste for history and my distaste for trinitarianism (along with some few other things I don't wish to discuss right now) that led me back to the Bible.
May God guide you to correctly divide the Scriptures!
J
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