- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,05:56) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 08 2010,22:13) So, it comes back around then eh? If man runs the show according to your faith, why should I believe in your god while not believing in another?
There is no “other” God, why is it you keep asking me about “other” gods?That is why I said that Atheist have Polytheistic minds.
Different beliefs are not different “gods” just different understandings about “One GOD”
There are many gods, and I can name them and name the people who believed in them. Kejonn's question to you is Why YOUR god? (and why not all the others that people have believed) and the only answer you have for him is your ASSERTION that only your god exists.The line attributed to Christopher Hitchens applies: “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”
Kejonn actually needs to say nothing at all in response to your assertion, and he is still in front, because it is a valid question.
I wonder what allah thinks about you not being able to provide more than just 'what you recon' in defense of 'him', this ONE GOD that CREATED EVERYTHING. Shouldn't his existence and uniqueness be overwhelmingly OBVIOUS and easy to demonstrate with evidence?
Or even a reasoned logical argument?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,07:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,05:56) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 08 2010,22:13) So, it comes back around then eh? If man runs the show according to your faith, why should I believe in your god while not believing in another?
There is no “other” God, why is it you keep asking me about “other” gods?That is why I said that Atheist have Polytheistic minds.
Different beliefs are not different “gods” just different understandings about “One GOD”
There are many gods, and I can name them and name the people who believed in them. Kejonn's question to you is Why YOUR god? (and why not all the others that people have believed) and the only answer you have for him is your ASSERTION that only your god exists.The line attributed to Christopher Hitchens applies: “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”
Kejonn actually needs to say nothing at all in response to your assertion, and he is still in front, because it is a valid question.
I wonder what allah thinks about you not being able to provide more than just 'what you recon' in defense of 'him', this ONE GOD that CREATED EVERYTHING. Shouldn't his existence and uniqueness be overwhelmingly OBVIOUS and easy to demonstrate with evidence?
Or even a reasoned logical argument?
Stuart
You are still not comprehending what I am saying and it is because you have a Polytheistic consciousness.I am saying ALLAH the arabic pronunciation if ED says Jehovah or YHVH or whatever these are not different gods because there are no different gods, when someone prays to mother earth or an Idol they are not paying to different gods because there are no gods.
So when you say “My” God it shows that you have an ignorance(lack of knowledge) towards what I am actually presenting to you.
every people upon the earth have an understanding of the Creator or creators or whatever but the fact is the level of understanding is reflected through those beliefs.
When there are some who worship Idols or demi-gods they are simply at a level of understanding that is non-transcendent because of a polytheistic Consciousness.
This Polytheistic Consciousness is so strong in people that even when the Israelites witnessed the miracles of God they still immediately defaulted that knowledge and built a Calf to Idolize as a God.
The fact is they were acting without knowledge.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,08:02) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,07:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,05:56) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 08 2010,22:13) So, it comes back around then eh? If man runs the show according to your faith, why should I believe in your god while not believing in another?
There is no “other” God, why is it you keep asking me about “other” gods?That is why I said that Atheist have Polytheistic minds.
Different beliefs are not different “gods” just different understandings about “One GOD”
There are many gods, and I can name them and name the people who believed in them. Kejonn's question to you is Why YOUR god? (and why not all the others that people have believed) and the only answer you have for him is your ASSERTION that only your god exists.The line attributed to Christopher Hitchens applies: “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”
Kejonn actually needs to say nothing at all in response to your assertion, and he is still in front, because it is a valid question.
I wonder what allah thinks about you not being able to provide more than just 'what you recon' in defense of 'him', this ONE GOD that CREATED EVERYTHING. Shouldn't his existence and uniqueness be overwhelmingly OBVIOUS and easy to demonstrate with evidence?
Or even a reasoned logical argument?
Stuart
You are still not comprehending what I am saying and it is because you have a Polytheistic consciousness.I am saying ALLAH the arabic pronunciation if ED says Jehovah or YHVH or whatever these are not different gods because there are no different gods, when someone prays to mother earth or an Idol they are not paying to different gods because there are no gods.
So when you say “My” God it shows that you have an ignorance(lack of knowledge) towards what I am actually presenting to you.
every people upon the earth have an understanding of the Creator or creators or whatever but the fact is the level of understanding is reflected through those beliefs.
When there are some who worship Idols or demi-gods they are simply at a level of understanding that is non-transcendent because of a polytheistic Consciousness.
This Polytheistic Consciousness is so strong in people that even when the Israelites witnessed the miracles of God they still immediately defaulted that knowledge and built a Calf to Idolize as a God.
The fact is they were acting without knowledge.
I think I get that, different understandings of the same God?Quote (karmarie @ Jan. 09 2010,08:24) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,08:02) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,07:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,05:56) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 08 2010,22:13) So, it comes back around then eh? If man runs the show according to your faith, why should I believe in your god while not believing in another?
There is no “other” God, why is it you keep asking me about “other” gods?That is why I said that Atheist have Polytheistic minds.
Different beliefs are not different “gods” just different understandings about “One GOD”
There are many gods, and I can name them and name the people who believed in them. Kejonn's question to you is Why YOUR god? (and why not all the others that people have believed) and the only answer you have for him is your ASSERTION that only your god exists.The line attributed to Christopher Hitchens applies: “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”
Kejonn actually needs to say nothing at all in response to your assertion, and he is still in front, because it is a valid question.
I wonder what allah thinks about you not being able to provide more than just 'what you recon' in defense of 'him', this ONE GOD that CREATED EVERYTHING. Shouldn't his existence and uniqueness be overwhelmingly OBVIOUS and easy to demonstrate with evidence?
Or even a reasoned logical argument?
Stuart
You are still not comprehending what I am saying and it is because you have a Polytheistic consciousness.I am saying ALLAH the arabic pronunciation if ED says Jehovah or YHVH or whatever these are not different gods because there are no different gods, when someone prays to mother earth or an Idol they are not paying to different gods because there are no gods.
So when you say “My” God it shows that you have an ignorance(lack of knowledge) towards what I am actually presenting to you.
every people upon the earth have an understanding of the Creator or creators or whatever but the fact is the level of understanding is reflected through those beliefs.
When there are some who worship Idols or demi-gods they are simply at a level of understanding that is non-transcendent because of a polytheistic Consciousness.
This Polytheistic Consciousness is so strong in people that even when the Israelites witnessed the miracles of God they still immediately defaulted that knowledge and built a Calf to Idolize as a God.
The fact is they were acting without knowledge.
I think I get that, different understandings of the same God?
You get it because you have a Monotheistic Cosciousness that's why when every one starts talking about different gods around you, you get perplexed because it's all double talk and selfish theologies of exclusion.You simply know better, you know no matter how many different snowflakes there are ONLY ONE GOD created them all.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,08:02) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,07:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,05:56) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 08 2010,22:13) So, it comes back around then eh? If man runs the show according to your faith, why should I believe in your god while not believing in another?
There is no “other” God, why is it you keep asking me about “other” gods?That is why I said that Atheist have Polytheistic minds.
Different beliefs are not different “gods” just different understandings about “One GOD”
There are many gods, and I can name them and name the people who believed in them. Kejonn's question to you is Why YOUR god? (and why not all the others that people have believed) and the only answer you have for him is your ASSERTION that only your god exists.The line attributed to Christopher Hitchens applies: “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”
Kejonn actually needs to say nothing at all in response to your assertion, and he is still in front, because it is a valid question.
I wonder what allah thinks about you not being able to provide more than just 'what you recon' in defense of 'him', this ONE GOD that CREATED EVERYTHING. Shouldn't his existence and uniqueness be overwhelmingly OBVIOUS and easy to demonstrate with evidence?
Or even a reasoned logical argument?
Stuart
You are still not comprehending what I am saying and it is because you have a Polytheistic consciousness.I am saying ALLAH the arabic pronunciation if ED says Jehovah or YHVH or whatever these are not different gods because there are no different gods, when someone prays to mother earth or an Idol they are not paying to different gods because there are no gods.
So when you say “My” God it shows that you have an ignorance(lack of knowledge) towards what I am actually presenting to you.
every people upon the earth have an understanding of the Creator or creators or whatever but the fact is the level of understanding is reflected through those beliefs.
When there are some who worship Idols or demi-gods they are simply at a level of understanding that is non-transcendent because of a polytheistic Consciousness.
This Polytheistic Consciousness is so strong in people that even when the Israelites witnessed the miracles of God they still immediately defaulted that knowledge and built a Calf to Idolize as a God.
The fact is they were acting without knowledge.
Atheists have polytheistic minds??How is “zero” more than one?
No other gods and no other god are, considering them grammatically, mathematically and logically, identical statements. You have spent a lot of energy attempting to make a point out of the difference between those two identical expressions.
Your assertions do not change the fact that in the past humans have imagined many gods. Do you get that? It is almost certainly true that for most of human history, humans have been polytheistic. Fair enough?
So, the question remains, WHY ARE THEY WRONG about there being a different number of gods to the number of gods you worship (ie: ONE)?
Do you have anything more than trying to demonstrate your point by just shouting your assertions the loudest and ignoring others?
That is called a fail in any kind of serious scholarship.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,10:20) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,08:02) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,07:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,05:56) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 08 2010,22:13) So, it comes back around then eh? If man runs the show according to your faith, why should I believe in your god while not believing in another?
There is no “other” God, why is it you keep asking me about “other” gods?That is why I said that Atheist have Polytheistic minds.
Different beliefs are not different “gods” just different understandings about “One GOD”
There are many gods, and I can name them and name the people who believed in them. Kejonn's question to you is Why YOUR god? (and why not all the others that people have believed) and the only answer you have for him is your ASSERTION that only your god exists.The line attributed to Christopher Hitchens applies: “What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”
Kejonn actually needs to say nothing at all in response to your assertion, and he is still in front, because it is a valid question.
I wonder what allah thinks about you not being able to provide more than just 'what you recon' in defense of 'him', this ONE GOD that CREATED EVERYTHING. Shouldn't his existence and uniqueness be overwhelmingly OBVIOUS and easy to demonstrate with evidence?
Or even a reasoned logical argument?
Stuart
You are still not comprehending what I am saying and it is because you have a Polytheistic consciousness.I am saying ALLAH the arabic pronunciation if ED says Jehovah or YHVH or whatever these are not different gods because there are no different gods, when someone prays to mother earth or an Idol they are not paying to different gods because there are no gods.
So when you say “My” God it shows that you have an ignorance(lack of knowledge) towards what I am actually presenting to you.
every people upon the earth have an understanding of the Creator or creators or whatever but the fact is the level of understanding is reflected through those beliefs.
When there are some who worship Idols or demi-gods they are simply at a level of understanding that is non-transcendent because of a polytheistic Consciousness.
This Polytheistic Consciousness is so strong in people that even when the Israelites witnessed the miracles of God they still immediately defaulted that knowledge and built a Calf to Idolize as a God.
The fact is they were acting without knowledge.
Atheists have polytheistic minds??How is “zero” more than one?
No other gods and no other god are, considering them grammatically, mathematically and logically, identical statements. You have spent a lot of energy attempting to make a point out of the difference between those two identical expressions.
Your assertions do not change the fact that in the past humans have imagined many gods. Do you get that? It is almost certainly true that for most of human history, humans have been polytheistic. Fair enough?
So, the question remains, WHY ARE THEY WRONG about there being a different number of gods to the number of gods you worship (ie: ONE)?
Do you have anything more than trying to demonstrate your point by just shouting your assertions the loudest and ignoring others?
That is called a fail in any kind of serious scholarship.
Stuart
Your whole assertion is there are no “gods” even if you say there are no gods or God you still are considering disputing many gods and therefore you have already fallen into ignorance.You are not an atheist you are a POLY-ATHEIST and most atheists are.
an actual A-theist would not believe in God they would first acquire the knowledge that there is only One God and then deny the existence of God, however a POLY-Atheist is usually agnostic because they still peruse “gods” perhaps trying to shop for one they like but no matter which one they choose it would still be the same One.
I don't expect you to understand but at least try.
OK, I acknowledge that I am a “polyatheist” but only if you also acknowledge that you are too. You are a polyatheist and a monotheist. Those two terms are not mutually exclusive, and actually that is the point. I deny the existence of the same number of gods that you deny, plus one. Just saying all those gods DO exist but are just names for the same god, so there is actually ONLY ONE is disingenuous, because you are just asserting that the views of those who believed in all those gods are wrong. No reason or evidence there either! That is the essence of kejonn's point, and given the genuine beliefs in more than one god held by others, with just as much devotion as you, the point remains unanswered. How do you justify your rejection of the polytheistic view? I think I know why, but you are the one on the spot here, and I have seen nothing convincing from you in this thread.
You seem yourself to have some kind of inability to accept that I am NOT searching for any gods, be it the only one you claim exists, or many gods. I am not! Really!
Regarding the lack of a god OR gods, this is my position:
We are all agnostic: no one can demonstrated beyond doubt the existence of any god, just as no one can disprove any god.
I go further and adopt the position of an atheist because none of the evidence we have indicates any kind of supernatural being at all: all the evidence agrees that there is no good reason to suggest such a thing as a god, and it is also evident from those who believe in supernatural agency that there is little agreement on what a god is anyway, so a completely reasonable provisional conclusion to make is that there is no god of any kind.
But you are right: when I just say “there is no god”, I am just asserting it. When I say “I conclude there is no god” then I am making a scientific theory, which you are free to disprove, although you still have not even come close to doing that.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,10:44) OK, I acknowledge that I am a “polyatheist” but only if you also acknowledge that you are too. You are a polyatheist and a monotheist. Those two terms are not mutually exclusive, and actually that is the point. I deny the existence of the same number of gods that you deny, plus one. Just saying all those gods DO exist but are just names for the same god, so there is actually ONLY ONE is disingenuous, because you are just asserting that the views of those who believed in all those gods are wrong. No reason or evidence there either! That is the essence of kejonn's point, and given the genuine beliefs in more than one god held by others, with just as much devotion as you, the point remains unanswered. How do you justify your rejection of the polytheistic view? I think I know why, but you are the one on the spot here, and I have seen nothing convincing from you in this thread. You seem yourself to have some kind of inability to accept that I am NOT searching for any gods, be it the only one you claim exists, or many gods. I am not! Really!
Regarding the lack of a god OR gods, this is my position:
We are all agnostic: no one can demonstrated beyond doubt the existence of any god, just as no one can disprove any god.
I go further and adopt the position of an atheist because none of the evidence we have indicates any kind of supernatural being at all: all the evidence agrees that there is no good reason to suggest such a thing as a god, and it is also evident from those who believe in supernatural agency that there is little agreement on what a god is anyway, so a completely reasonable provisional conclusion to make is that there is no god of any kind.
But you are right: when I just say “there is no god”, I am just asserting it. When I say “I conclude there is no god” then I am making a scientific theory, which you are free to disprove, although you still have not even come close to doing that.
Stuart
What all other gods? Are you under medication?Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,14:06) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,10:44) OK, I acknowledge that I am a “polyatheist” but only if you also acknowledge that you are too. You are a polyatheist and a monotheist. Those two terms are not mutually exclusive, and actually that is the point. I deny the existence of the same number of gods that you deny, plus one. Just saying all those gods DO exist but are just names for the same god, so there is actually ONLY ONE is disingenuous, because you are just asserting that the views of those who believed in all those gods are wrong. No reason or evidence there either! That is the essence of kejonn's point, and given the genuine beliefs in more than one god held by others, with just as much devotion as you, the point remains unanswered. How do you justify your rejection of the polytheistic view? I think I know why, but you are the one on the spot here, and I have seen nothing convincing from you in this thread. You seem yourself to have some kind of inability to accept that I am NOT searching for any gods, be it the only one you claim exists, or many gods. I am not! Really!
Regarding the lack of a god OR gods, this is my position:
We are all agnostic: no one can demonstrated beyond doubt the existence of any god, just as no one can disprove any god.
I go further and adopt the position of an atheist because none of the evidence we have indicates any kind of supernatural being at all: all the evidence agrees that there is no good reason to suggest such a thing as a god, and it is also evident from those who believe in supernatural agency that there is little agreement on what a god is anyway, so a completely reasonable provisional conclusion to make is that there is no god of any kind.
But you are right: when I just say “there is no god”, I am just asserting it. When I say “I conclude there is no god” then I am making a scientific theory, which you are free to disprove, although you still have not even come close to doing that.
Stuart
What all other gods? Are you under medication?
Don't worry about addressing the points I raised, will you.That would mean you would actually have to do some thinking.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,15:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,14:06) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,10:44) OK, I acknowledge that I am a “polyatheist” but only if you also acknowledge that you are too. You are a polyatheist and a monotheist. Those two terms are not mutually exclusive, and actually that is the point. I deny the existence of the same number of gods that you deny, plus one. Just saying all those gods DO exist but are just names for the same god, so there is actually ONLY ONE is disingenuous, because you are just asserting that the views of those who believed in all those gods are wrong. No reason or evidence there either! That is the essence of kejonn's point, and given the genuine beliefs in more than one god held by others, with just as much devotion as you, the point remains unanswered. How do you justify your rejection of the polytheistic view? I think I know why, but you are the one on the spot here, and I have seen nothing convincing from you in this thread. You seem yourself to have some kind of inability to accept that I am NOT searching for any gods, be it the only one you claim exists, or many gods. I am not! Really!
Regarding the lack of a god OR gods, this is my position:
We are all agnostic: no one can demonstrated beyond doubt the existence of any god, just as no one can disprove any god.
I go further and adopt the position of an atheist because none of the evidence we have indicates any kind of supernatural being at all: all the evidence agrees that there is no good reason to suggest such a thing as a god, and it is also evident from those who believe in supernatural agency that there is little agreement on what a god is anyway, so a completely reasonable provisional conclusion to make is that there is no god of any kind.
But you are right: when I just say “there is no god”, I am just asserting it. When I say “I conclude there is no god” then I am making a scientific theory, which you are free to disprove, although you still have not even come close to doing that.
Stuart
What all other gods? Are you under medication?
Don't worry about addressing the points I raised, will you.That would mean you would actually have to do some thinking.
Stuart
NZ children are commiting suicide at an alarming rate how close is that for them to become suicide bombers?Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:24) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,15:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,14:06) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,10:44) OK, I acknowledge that I am a “polyatheist” but only if you also acknowledge that you are too. You are a polyatheist and a monotheist. Those two terms are not mutually exclusive, and actually that is the point. I deny the existence of the same number of gods that you deny, plus one. Just saying all those gods DO exist but are just names for the same god, so there is actually ONLY ONE is disingenuous, because you are just asserting that the views of those who believed in all those gods are wrong. No reason or evidence there either! That is the essence of kejonn's point, and given the genuine beliefs in more than one god held by others, with just as much devotion as you, the point remains unanswered. How do you justify your rejection of the polytheistic view? I think I know why, but you are the one on the spot here, and I have seen nothing convincing from you in this thread. You seem yourself to have some kind of inability to accept that I am NOT searching for any gods, be it the only one you claim exists, or many gods. I am not! Really!
Regarding the lack of a god OR gods, this is my position:
We are all agnostic: no one can demonstrated beyond doubt the existence of any god, just as no one can disprove any god.
I go further and adopt the position of an atheist because none of the evidence we have indicates any kind of supernatural being at all: all the evidence agrees that there is no good reason to suggest such a thing as a god, and it is also evident from those who believe in supernatural agency that there is little agreement on what a god is anyway, so a completely reasonable provisional conclusion to make is that there is no god of any kind.
But you are right: when I just say “there is no god”, I am just asserting it. When I say “I conclude there is no god” then I am making a scientific theory, which you are free to disprove, although you still have not even come close to doing that.
Stuart
What all other gods? Are you under medication?
Don't worry about addressing the points I raised, will you.That would mean you would actually have to do some thinking.
Stuart
NZ children are commiting suicide at an alarming rate how close is that for them to become suicide bombers?
Perhaps we could read their suicide notes.How many of them do you think say they are taking their own lives to destroy the enemies of allah?
I predict you will not bother answering this point, but will go on to some other inane assertion.
Stuart
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,12:56) There is no “other” God, why is it you keep asking me about “other” gods? Because there are other theists out there who claim to worship a different god (or gods) than your own. Personally, I am skeptical of all of them, but the fact exists that they claim different god(s). Now, this thread asks why I should believe your god is real while disbelieving your god. IOW, what makes your god so special that he can be seen to exist and not theirs?
Quote That is why I said that Atheist have Polytheistic minds. Not really. Atheists simply believe in one less god than you.
Quote Different beliefs are not different “gods” just different understandings about “One GOD”
That it would be so simple. But this statement shows just how ignorant you are of any other religion besides the Abrahamic flavors.Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,16:43) You get it because you have a Monotheistic Cosciousness that's why when every one starts talking about different gods around you, you get perplexed because it's all double talk and selfish theologies of exclusion. You simply know better, you know no matter how many different snowflakes there are ONLY ONE GOD created them all.
People may think they “know” something about this “one god” but there is nothing known, just believed.From http://community.beliefnet.com/the_fai….4663661
When I was Christian I experienced Yahweh and I felt that he was a rather indifferent and distant god. I think that is because he wasn't the god for me. I do not believe that I ever met Jesus but your way of explaining the three makes sense to me. I have always felt that there were three but there are many people who think all the gods are facets of one or two gods.
I'm sure that there are others who are sure that they met Mary or one of the saints or even Satan or the angels. The Christian pantheon is a full one.
I am Wiccan and believe in multiple gods based upon my UPG.
Why should I believe what you say to be “known” is any more valid than what this person has stated?
More examples. From http://community.beliefnet.com/go….5598149
David, Satan did not rebell in heaven and make a Utopia for Pagans.
You still believe the god of the bible is the creator god. He is not. He did not create the Pagan gods. Who already existed.
Pagan gods were already here David. The bible god and Satan have absolutely nothing to do with them. THe bible god and Satan have No power over them. THe bible god and Satan have No influence over them. What Satan and the bible god do have no affect on Pagans or Pagan gods, none at all.
If Satan did rebell against the bible god. It would have no affect on Pagan gods or Pagans, None at all. Different world all together. Bible god and Satan have no affect on the Pagans gods, never did. Never will.
http://community.beliefnet.com/go….5080429
It is kind of funny, but you still know nothing of Paganism, for all that you have gone from telling us we will all burn in hell as secret Satan worshipers, to deciding to become a Satan worshiper and being surprised you don't notice any Pagans there with you.
Satan, like Jesus, Mary (both of them), and all the prophets from Abraham to Mohammed are all part of the same pantheon of Abrahamatic religions. That faith and all of its pardagims are anathema to Paganism.
Satan is no more Pagan than Christ was. Both subscribe to the belief in a polar duality of the cosmos, consisting of light and dark, with no middle group desired or possible. It is a binary solution set, zero or one. Paganism is not binary, paganism is not one choice of left or right, it is an infinity of possibility, of not one single destination, but ten thousand destinations, by as many paths as there are seekers.
Our gods are not for Satan, or against him. Our gods are not for Christ, or against him. Our gods are simply that, the gods of our folk. Pagans don't take sides in the family squabbles between Yaweh and his confused get. While you have switched sides in the tennis match between one of your gods and the other, along side you see thousands of Pagan's running a marathon from our beginning, towards our own goals. We are not a part of your game, its rules do not bind us, nor its stakes tempt us, for ours is a far different quest.
Our ways are anceint beyond Christ, with sybolism and traditions from our own ancestral lore, from a background as far removed from the experience of Negev desert tribes as is the Lunar Sea of Tranquility.
http://community.beliefnet.com/go….5179377
I am thinking that David does not seem to realize that again all gods are not one god, and all gods have different families of gods.
Sephiroth666 (no offense at all intended) You are technically still Christian, you follow a god of the Christian Pantheon (Part of the Abrahamic Pantheon). A pantheon for the want of a better word, is a family of gods.
Christianity is an Abrahamic faith, The Christian family of gods seem to be “The father , son, holy ghost and Satan”, depending on the type of Christianity, it can include lesser members such as saints and some do not believe in the trinity.
That is where the Christian pantheon ends. And that Pantheon started in the middle East as a local tribal religion. Just as Judaism did. Which does appear to have the same Central god as Christianity, but just the one YWHW. Islam as well.
Paganism generally speaking, are all faiths that do not include the Abrahamic (which of course includes Christian) deities.
The Norse gods are many and the religions associated with them have nothing to do with Christ or YWHW or Satan. They are not connected in any way shape or form.
Different gods, different personalities all together. Same with the Celtic gods who I associate with. They have nothing to do with the Christian (Abrahamic ) gods at all. They are entirely different. They are a different family of gods, just as your family of human beings is not John T's family of human beings. Different family altogether. Not related, do not associate.
Now if you are happy following Satan that is fine, I hope you find happiness and fulfillment. But please know. You are not follow John's gods or mine. And we are not following Satan, no relationship at all. None at all. Different family of gods. That is fine.
But know, we do not generally call on gods outside our family of gods. So no we will not be calling on your god.
http://community.beliefnet.com/go….1514229
Well, first of all, I think it is difficult at best to give a logical account of any religion. In some ways it's kind of like trying to use calculus to explain poetry. However, logic is not the only means of justification. I think for most people (not just Pagans) the justification for their religion is based on experience. Have you ever met anyone who choose their religion only because it made sense logically? I won't say that there aren't people like that, but they are few and far between. I'll give an example. Let's pretend for the moment that I think Christianity is a perfectly logical religion. I still would not be a Christian. Why? Because the last time I spoke to the Christian god, he told me to “shut up and go away.” I had an experience that indicated to me that I was not meant to be Christian.
I think you can see that others simply do not believe in your god, or they do but worship other ones. You can stick your fingers in your ears and claim there is only one god, but you have yet to show why one should believe as you do as opposed to what others believe. Or none of it.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,21:06) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,10:44) OK, I acknowledge that I am a “polyatheist” but only if you also acknowledge that you are too. You are a polyatheist and a monotheist. Those two terms are not mutually exclusive, and actually that is the point. I deny the existence of the same number of gods that you deny, plus one. Just saying all those gods DO exist but are just names for the same god, so there is actually ONLY ONE is disingenuous, because you are just asserting that the views of those who believed in all those gods are wrong. No reason or evidence there either! That is the essence of kejonn's point, and given the genuine beliefs in more than one god held by others, with just as much devotion as you, the point remains unanswered. How do you justify your rejection of the polytheistic view? I think I know why, but you are the one on the spot here, and I have seen nothing convincing from you in this thread. You seem yourself to have some kind of inability to accept that I am NOT searching for any gods, be it the only one you claim exists, or many gods. I am not! Really!
Regarding the lack of a god OR gods, this is my position:
We are all agnostic: no one can demonstrated beyond doubt the existence of any god, just as no one can disprove any god.
I go further and adopt the position of an atheist because none of the evidence we have indicates any kind of supernatural being at all: all the evidence agrees that there is no good reason to suggest such a thing as a god, and it is also evident from those who believe in supernatural agency that there is little agreement on what a god is anyway, so a completely reasonable provisional conclusion to make is that there is no god of any kind.
But you are right: when I just say “there is no god”, I am just asserting it. When I say “I conclude there is no god” then I am making a scientific theory, which you are free to disprove, although you still have not even come close to doing that.
Stuart
What all other gods? Are you under medication?
I love how some people try to use insults when they have been beaten.What Stu says is 100% correct.
Atheists are poly-atheists because they do not believe in any gods, be it ones from Norse, Celtic, Greek, or Christian mythology.
You are poly-atheist because you do not believe in any gods but the one of the Abrahamic religions. You do not believe in Thor, Zeus, Vishnu, Ahura Mazda, etc.
You are a monotheist because you believe in one god. Atheists simply believe in one less god than you do.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,22:24) NZ children are commiting suicide at an alarming rate how close is that for them to become suicide bombers?
Suicide: taking of one's own life.Suicide bomber: taking of one's own life plus the life of many more.
We all have control of our own lives. When we try to assert control over others, that is a problem.
It is truly sad to see that when you get soundly beaten in a debate, you try to throw off-topic replies like this one. Are you trolling now?
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,19:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:24) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,15:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,14:06) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,10:44) OK, I acknowledge that I am a “polyatheist” but only if you also acknowledge that you are too. You are a polyatheist and a monotheist. Those two terms are not mutually exclusive, and actually that is the point. I deny the existence of the same number of gods that you deny, plus one. Just saying all those gods DO exist but are just names for the same god, so there is actually ONLY ONE is disingenuous, because you are just asserting that the views of those who believed in all those gods are wrong. No reason or evidence there either! That is the essence of kejonn's point, and given the genuine beliefs in more than one god held by others, with just as much devotion as you, the point remains unanswered. How do you justify your rejection of the polytheistic view? I think I know why, but you are the one on the spot here, and I have seen nothing convincing from you in this thread. You seem yourself to have some kind of inability to accept that I am NOT searching for any gods, be it the only one you claim exists, or many gods. I am not! Really!
Regarding the lack of a god OR gods, this is my position:
We are all agnostic: no one can demonstrated beyond doubt the existence of any god, just as no one can disprove any god.
I go further and adopt the position of an atheist because none of the evidence we have indicates any kind of supernatural being at all: all the evidence agrees that there is no good reason to suggest such a thing as a god, and it is also evident from those who believe in supernatural agency that there is little agreement on what a god is anyway, so a completely reasonable provisional conclusion to make is that there is no god of any kind.
But you are right: when I just say “there is no god”, I am just asserting it. When I say “I conclude there is no god” then I am making a scientific theory, which you are free to disprove, although you still have not even come close to doing that.
Stuart
What all other gods? Are you under medication?
Don't worry about addressing the points I raised, will you.That would mean you would actually have to do some thinking.
Stuart
NZ children are commiting suicide at an alarming rate how close is that for them to become suicide bombers?
Perhaps we could read their suicide notes.How many of them do you think say they are taking their own lives to destroy the enemies of allah?
I predict you will not bother answering this point, but will go on to some other inane assertion.
Stuart
My point was there is great despair and a non caring atheistic adult populationQuote (kejonn @ Jan. 10 2010,01:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,12:56) There is no “other” God, why is it you keep asking me about “other” gods? Because there are other theists out there who claim to worship a different god (or gods) than your own. Personally, I am skeptical of all of them, but the fact exists that they claim different god(s). Now, this thread asks why I should believe your god is real while disbelieving your god. IOW, what makes your god so special that he can be seen to exist and not theirs?
Quote That is why I said that Atheist have Polytheistic minds. Not really. Atheists simply believe in one less god than you.
Quote Different beliefs are not different “gods” just different understandings about “One GOD”
That it would be so simple. But this statement shows just how ignorant you are of any other religion besides the Abrahamic flavors.
Listen, You were a Christian who believed in the Trinity, right?Therefore, even then you had a polytheistic consciousness now after your wife left you became atheistic, this could not have happened in a MONOTHEISTIC CONSCIOUSNESS.
Your wife was one of the gods and when oshe abandoned you it was like all the gods abandoning you, I hear about this all the time. A friend of mine went through the same thing, he was an incredible person(probably just like you are) He was generally sweet and he thought he was honest but he wasn't honest he was just nice and agreeable.
Well she left him and when she left him, he left God. Then I explained to him how he had it all mixed up that he should have loved God first with an unbreakable bond and told her to do the same he would have had great power then because she would have not used threats of leaving to dominate him as she did all the time just to get her way.
His kids also ran all over him but then once we talked and talked and talked and I helped him(With God's help) be purged of that polytheistic consciousness, he became strong, confident and honest and guess what he got his wife back and his kids respect and love him.
When a Man believes in ONE GOD and worships that ONE GOD it eliminates the fears around him and in him and he is free to act from a perspective of Honest authority and integrity, he becomes and authentic Man.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 10 2010,02:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,21:06) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,10:44) OK, I acknowledge that I am a “polyatheist” but only if you also acknowledge that you are too. You are a polyatheist and a monotheist. Those two terms are not mutually exclusive, and actually that is the point. I deny the existence of the same number of gods that you deny, plus one. Just saying all those gods DO exist but are just names for the same god, so there is actually ONLY ONE is disingenuous, because you are just asserting that the views of those who believed in all those gods are wrong. No reason or evidence there either! That is the essence of kejonn's point, and given the genuine beliefs in more than one god held by others, with just as much devotion as you, the point remains unanswered. How do you justify your rejection of the polytheistic view? I think I know why, but you are the one on the spot here, and I have seen nothing convincing from you in this thread. You seem yourself to have some kind of inability to accept that I am NOT searching for any gods, be it the only one you claim exists, or many gods. I am not! Really!
Regarding the lack of a god OR gods, this is my position:
We are all agnostic: no one can demonstrated beyond doubt the existence of any god, just as no one can disprove any god.
I go further and adopt the position of an atheist because none of the evidence we have indicates any kind of supernatural being at all: all the evidence agrees that there is no good reason to suggest such a thing as a god, and it is also evident from those who believe in supernatural agency that there is little agreement on what a god is anyway, so a completely reasonable provisional conclusion to make is that there is no god of any kind.
But you are right: when I just say “there is no god”, I am just asserting it. When I say “I conclude there is no god” then I am making a scientific theory, which you are free to disprove, although you still have not even come close to doing that.
Stuart
What all other gods? Are you under medication?
I love how some people try to use insults when they have been beaten.What Stu says is 100% correct.
Atheists are poly-atheists because they do not believe in any gods, be it ones from Norse, Celtic, Greek, or Christian mythology.
You are poly-atheist because you do not believe in any gods but the one of the Abrahamic religions. You do not believe in Thor, Zeus, Vishnu, Ahura Mazda, etc.
You are a monotheist because you believe in one god. Atheists simply believe in one less god than you do.
There cannot be one less God or one more God there can only be ONE GOD.If you believe there is less than one God how could you possibly speak about God at all, there would be nothing to talk about.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,12:46) There cannot be one less God or one more God there can only be ONE GOD. And this thread is asking why I should believe what you say vs what others say who disagree with you. Your repeated assertions are not accomplishing the task at hand.
Quote If you believe there is less than one God how could you possibly speak about God at all, there would be nothing to talk about.
As I've stated, I am skeptical of all. But if you truly want me to believe your god is real, you should be able to show why yours is real and others are not. That you cannot do this is but another reason to continue to disbelieve.Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 09 2010,10:54) I love how some people try to use insults when they have been beaten.
Hi KevinI agree totally! This sight never ceases with insults.
I have been guilty myself, but I try hard to not make it personal but stick to the subject or scriptures!
BTW, How the Hell are you?
Blessings Keith
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
