Kejonn vs any Theist

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,14:04)

BD Quote “If G-dGod wanted us circumcised, why didn't He create us that way?” That compelling question was asked to the great Talmudic authority, Rabbi Akiva. He answered with a little illustration. “G-dGod wants us to have bread, yet bread and rolls don't grow in the fields. G-dGod wants us to be clothed, yet suits and dresses don't grow on sheep.” (See Medrash Tanchuma, Tazria 5 and Bereishis Rabbah 11:6) G-dGod provides us with raw materials and it is up to man to perfect and enhance them. Food, clothes, and even our places of habitat are all commodities that we put together from what we are provided with by our generous Creator. Man, too, needs to be perfected. The act of ritual circumcision brings man to that perfection. The Torah itself uses the word 'perfect' in recording G-dGod's command to Abraham that he circumcise himself. “Go before Me and become perfect,” (Bereishis/Genesis 17:1) is the way the topic of ritual circumcision is introduced. What a load of try-hard bollocks.  The foreskin has function.  If these people believe that their bodies were created as part of a master plan by an omniscient god, how is it they can improve on that body by chopping off a functional bit of it? Quote Over the years circumcision has been found to be medically beneficial. For years medical researchers claimed that it reduced penile cancers and urinary tract infections and added to easier hygiene thus pediatrics academies routinely recommended circumcision for male infants. Later studies questioned the validity of earlier research and soon academies held back on recommending circumcision for all male infants. Yes those arguments are all spurious.  There are very few conditions helped by removal of the foreskin, and very few children suffer from any of them. Quote However, Jews never performed circumcision for medical, cosmetic, or hygienic reasons. It is purely an act of faith and commitment. Hence, traditional Jews have stayed away from the heated debate of circumcision's health benefits. If they exist, fine. If not, we circumcise anyway just as we have been doing it for thousands of years. And Jews shall continue doing it until the end of time with pride and valor. Doctors would expect to be sued for operating without consent, the operation is completely superfluous except for reasons of superstition, and yet rabbis are allowed to mutilate the penis of an infant boy without its consent and suck it as well! And before anyone is tempted to start on the whole thing about parents taking decisions on behalf of their children, there is no reason that the boy could not wait until he was of majority age before making this decision for himself.  Except for the adage get ‘em while they are young. Mythology says that abraham did not circumcise himself until he was 99.  Pretty obvious that rates of uptake of this ritual would be considerably lower if boys we allowed to grow a bit and came to know what was involved and the negative consequences for them. Islamic belief results in the most circumcisions in the world, and that is pretty consistent with the complete lack of respect for human rights shown in so many other aspects of its doctrine.  Yes, that goes for rabbis too. Quote ED was right about the clotting factor So you say.  Can you provide a link to a medical reference for it?  All I got was jewish apologist websites, like the one you copied from, none of which cited any medical study to support the assertion. Infant circumcision for ritualistic reasons should be illegal.  Why isn’t it? Stuart

Actually I'm sure you can find it yourself because I recall doing a lot of research to prove to you Virgin Birth only to have you disregard the facts right before your eyes which actually convinced me that THE ATHEISM DISEASE was real. You don't seek evidence and none would be accepted by you.

Let me show you how this disease works.

Isn't it a fact that a woman can get pregnant without ever having had sex with For instance artificial insemination?

There you have it proof of the possibility of Virgin Human Birth.

That is evidence and proof of Human virgin birth, right?

[Stu]

BD

Quote

Actually I'm sure you can find it yourself because I recall doing a lot of research to prove to you Virgin Birth only to have you disregard the facts right before your eyes which actually convinced me that THE ATHEISM DISEASE was real. You don't seek evidence and none would be accepted by you.

That’s not the way I remember it. You think Jesus was a shark. What disease do you have to have to believe that?

Quote

Isn't it a fact that a woman can get pregnant without ever having had sex with For instance artificial insemination? There you have it proof of the possibility of Virgin Human Birth. That is evidence and proof of Human virgin birth, right?

I don’t know. It is your absurd mythological system, not mine.

If you had really proved to me that parthenogenesis was possible in humans (which is what you were going on about before) WHY would you now need to be redefining the whole things in terms of artificial insemination?

Islam: the religion for those who don’t have their story straight.

Stuart

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,15:37)

Are all muslims this antisemitic? Stuart

Actually the Atheists are the ones who are antisemitic denying the entire Jewish history and heritage, I don't deny that the Jews wrote world History and that they made the name of God be known and out of them Jesus The Messiah came.

The atheistic antisemites try to thwart the hitory of the Jews at every turn.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,15:56)

BD Quote Actually I'm sure you can find it yourself because I recall doing a lot of research to prove to you Virgin Birth only to have you disregard the facts right before your eyes which actually convinced me that THE ATHEISM DISEASE was real. You don't seek evidence and none would be accepted by you. That’s not the way I remember it.  You think Jesus was a shark.  What disease do you have to have to believe that? Quote Isn't it a fact that a woman can get pregnant without ever having had sex with For instance artificial insemination?  There you have it proof of the possibility of Virgin Human Birth.  That is evidence and proof of Human virgin birth, right? I don’t know.  It is your absurd mythological system, not mine. If you had really proved to me that parthenogenesis was possible in humans (which is what you were going on about before) WHY would you now need to be redefining the whole things in terms of artificial insemination? Islam: the religion for those who don’t have their story straight. Stuart

See how the Atheism Disease works?

Obviously anyone would have been able to say, “well of course artificial insemination can get a virgin pregnant” but because you have the Atheism Disease you have to go blind on the simplest of issues even to the point of denying reality itself.

Can a Virgin be artificially inseminated, YES or NO?

[Ed J]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,15:56)

BD Quote Actually I'm sure you can find it yourself because I recall doing a lot of research to prove to you Virgin Birth only to have you disregard the facts right before your eyes which actually convinced me that THE ATHEISM DISEASE was real. You don't seek evidence and none would be accepted by you. That’s not the way I remember it.  You think Jesus was a shark.  What disease do you have to have to believe that? Quote Isn't it a fact that a woman can get pregnant without ever having had sex with For instance artificial insemination?  There you have it proof of the possibility of Virgin Human Birth.  That is evidence and proof of Human virgin birth, right? I don’t know.  It is your absurd mythological system, not mine. If you had really proved to me that parthenogenesis was possible in humans (which is what you were going on about before) WHY would you now need to be redefining the whole things in terms of artificial insemination? Islam: the religion for those who don’t have their story straight. Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Has NOT parthenogenesis been proven to occur in mammals before?
If so, then why would it be such a stretch to think it possible in Humans?

Ed J

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,16:03)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,15:37) Are all muslims this antisemitic? Stuart Actually the Atheists are the ones who are antisemitic denying the entire Jewish history and heritage, I don't deny that the Jews wrote world History and that they made the name of God be known and out of them Jesus The Messiah came. The atheistic antisemites try to thwart the hitory of the Jews at every turn.

Sorry, no luck. Atheists have only one belief: there are no gods. I'm sure there are many atheists who are antisemitic, but I would venture that an overwhelming majority are not.

There is no book of mythology for the atheist. There is for the muslim though, and it says things like:

Sura 2:61 …And humiliation and wretchedness were stamped upon them and they were visited with wrath from Allah. That was because they disbelieved in Allah's revelations and slew the prophets wrongfully. That was for their disobedience and transgression.

Sura 7:166 So when they took pride in that which they had been forbidden, We said unto them: Be ye apes despised and loathed!

Well they got the bit about apes right, but it is a pretty lame insult because ALL humans are apes!

It's like saying those damn Jews are all hominids!

Speaking for this particular atheist, you might have forgotten me telling you, specifically, that there is a practical difference between the identity of the Jewish ethnic group and the religion of Judaism. So while I have asserted that you would have to be delusional to believe in a god, and that is not unique to Jews, I have not denied that there is a history of the Jewish ethnic group, and that some of it is intertwined with mythology in the torah. There is much Jewish history that is not described in that set of books, too, such as the polytheistic origins of monotheism, also the origins of islam.

If we apply the standards of historical probity that you bang on about, but don't follow yourself, then we should attempt to discern what the history of the Jews really is, free of the delusions of those who are god believers, for the sake of those Jews who are not.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 25 2010,16:14)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,15:56) BD Quote Actually I'm sure you can find it yourself because I recall doing a lot of research to prove to you Virgin Birth only to have you disregard the facts right before your eyes which actually convinced me that THE ATHEISM DISEASE was real. You don't seek evidence and none would be accepted by you. That’s not the way I remember it.  You think Jesus was a shark.  What disease do you have to have to believe that? Quote Isn't it a fact that a woman can get pregnant without ever having had sex with For instance artificial insemination?  There you have it proof of the possibility of Virgin Human Birth.  That is evidence and proof of Human virgin birth, right? I don’t know.  It is your absurd mythological system, not mine. If you had really proved to me that parthenogenesis was possible in humans (which is what you were going on about before) WHY would you now need to be redefining the whole things in terms of artificial insemination? Islam: the religion for those who don’t have their story straight. Stuart Hi Stuart, Has NOT parthenogenesis been proven to occur in mammals before? If so, then why would it be such a stretch to think it possible in Humans? Ed J

Ed Ed Ed.

Don't you start!

Look up genomic imprinting in humans, and do try and grasp the concept.

And don't come back and pretend you don't know about it, like BD seems to be doing!

I suppose you could try claiming that Jesus was a shark. That would work if you need to have a virgin birth.

But parthenogenesis is not possible in humans, OK?

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,16:06)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,15:56) BD Quote Actually I'm sure you can find it yourself because I recall doing a lot of research to prove to you Virgin Birth only to have you disregard the facts right before your eyes which actually convinced me that THE ATHEISM DISEASE was real. You don't seek evidence and none would be accepted by you. That’s not the way I remember it.  You think Jesus was a shark.  What disease do you have to have to believe that? Quote Isn't it a fact that a woman can get pregnant without ever having had sex with For instance artificial insemination?  There you have it proof of the possibility of Virgin Human Birth.  That is evidence and proof of Human virgin birth, right? I don’t know.  It is your absurd mythological system, not mine. If you had really proved to me that parthenogenesis was possible in humans (which is what you were going on about before) WHY would you now need to be redefining the whole things in terms of artificial insemination? Islam: the religion for those who don’t have their story straight. Stuart See how the Atheism Disease works? Obviously anyone would have been able to say, “well of course artificial insemination can get a virgin pregnant” but because you have the Atheism Disease you have to go blind on the simplest of issues even to the point of denying reality itself. Can a Virgin be artificially inseminated, YES or NO?

Not a very good dodge BD.

Tell me this: do you think the alleged virgin birth of Jesus was:

A. a miraculous example of (otherwise impossible) human parthenogenesis
B. the result of artificial insemination

Stuart

[david]

Quote

All I am asking is for theists to show me why other gods are false or non-existent while there own god is the only true one.

–kejonn

There seems to be one basic answer given:

One God had a book authored and made available to everyone in the world. This God says, “I exist” and seems to want us to know him, and how he deals with people. Other gods seem less concerned with us knowing they exist. Or if they do want us to know they exist, they need to find better publishers, because the God that says he exists, has been on the best seller list for quite a while.

Is this an argument based on popularity?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,16:42)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,16:06) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,15:56) BD Quote Actually I'm sure you can find it yourself because I recall doing a lot of research to prove to you Virgin Birth only to have you disregard the facts right before your eyes which actually convinced me that THE ATHEISM DISEASE was real. You don't seek evidence and none would be accepted by you. That’s not the way I remember it.  You think Jesus was a shark.  What disease do you have to have to believe that? Quote Isn't it a fact that a woman can get pregnant without ever having had sex with For instance artificial insemination?  There you have it proof of the possibility of Virgin Human Birth.  That is evidence and proof of Human virgin birth, right? I don’t know.  It is your absurd mythological system, not mine. If you had really proved to me that parthenogenesis was possible in humans (which is what you were going on about before) WHY would you now need to be redefining the whole things in terms of artificial insemination? Islam: the religion for those who don’t have their story straight. Stuart See how the Atheism Disease works? Obviously anyone would have been able to say, “well of course artificial insemination can get a virgin pregnant” but because you have the Atheism Disease you have to go blind on the simplest of issues even to the point of denying reality itself. Can a Virgin be artificially inseminated, YES or NO? Not a very good dodge BD. Tell me this: do you think the alleged virgin birth of Jesus was: A. a miraculous example of (otherwise impossible) human parthenogenesis B. the result of artificial insemination Stuart

Can a Virgin be artificially inseminated, YES or NO?

Why is this so difficult to answer? It's either yes or no

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,16:55)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,16:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,16:06) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,15:56) BD Quote Actually I'm sure you can find it yourself because I recall doing a lot of research to prove to you Virgin Birth only to have you disregard the facts right before your eyes which actually convinced me that THE ATHEISM DISEASE was real. You don't seek evidence and none would be accepted by you. That’s not the way I remember it.  You think Jesus was a shark.  What disease do you have to have to believe that? Quote Isn't it a fact that a woman can get pregnant without ever having had sex with For instance artificial insemination?  There you have it proof of the possibility of Virgin Human Birth.  That is evidence and proof of Human virgin birth, right? I don’t know.  It is your absurd mythological system, not mine. If you had really proved to me that parthenogenesis was possible in humans (which is what you were going on about before) WHY would you now need to be redefining the whole things in terms of artificial insemination? Islam: the religion for those who don’t have their story straight. Stuart See how the Atheism Disease works? Obviously anyone would have been able to say, “well of course artificial insemination can get a virgin pregnant” but because you have the Atheism Disease you have to go blind on the simplest of issues even to the point of denying reality itself. Can a Virgin be artificially inseminated, YES or NO? Not a very good dodge BD. Tell me this: do you think the alleged virgin birth of Jesus was: A. a miraculous example of (otherwise impossible) human parthenogenesis B. the result of artificial insemination Stuart Can a Virgin be artificially inseminated, YES or NO? Why is this so difficult to answer? It's either yes or no

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Wake me when you have something interesting to discuss.

Stuart

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,16:59)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,16:55) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,16:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,16:06) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,15:56) BD Quote Actually I'm sure you can find it yourself because I recall doing a lot of research to prove to you Virgin Birth only to have you disregard the facts right before your eyes which actually convinced me that THE ATHEISM DISEASE was real. You don't seek evidence and none would be accepted by you. That’s not the way I remember it.  You think Jesus was a shark.  What disease do you have to have to believe that? Quote Isn't it a fact that a woman can get pregnant without ever having had sex with For instance artificial insemination?  There you have it proof of the possibility of Virgin Human Birth.  That is evidence and proof of Human virgin birth, right? I don’t know.  It is your absurd mythological system, not mine. If you had really proved to me that parthenogenesis was possible in humans (which is what you were going on about before) WHY would you now need to be redefining the whole things in terms of artificial insemination? Islam: the religion for those who don’t have their story straight. Stuart See how the Atheism Disease works? Obviously anyone would have been able to say, “well of course artificial insemination can get a virgin pregnant” but because you have the Atheism Disease you have to go blind on the simplest of issues even to the point of denying reality itself. Can a Virgin be artificially inseminated, YES or NO? Not a very good dodge BD. Tell me this: do you think the alleged virgin birth of Jesus was: A. a miraculous example of (otherwise impossible) human parthenogenesis B. the result of artificial insemination Stuart Can a Virgin be artificially inseminated, YES or NO? Why is this so difficult to answer? It's either yes or no Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.  Wake me when you have something interesting to discuss. Stuart

You lost another debate and it's not even your debate.

Kejonn,

Can a Virgin be artificially inseminated, YES or NO?

[Ed J]

Quote (david @ Jan. 25 2010,16:49)

Quote All I am asking is for theists to show me why other gods are false or non-existent while there own god is the only true one. –kejonn There seems to be one basic answer given: One God had a book authored and made available to everyone in the world.  This God says, “I exist“ and seems to want us to know him, and how he deals with people.  Other gods seem less concerned with us knowing they exist.  Or if they do want us to know they exist, they need to find better publishers, because the God that says he exists, has been on the best seller list for quite a while. Is this an argument based on popularity?

Hi David,

Excellent point!

Rev.21:7: He that overcometh shall inherit all things;
and “I” “will be”=63 his God(YHVH=63), and he shall be my son.

                       JEHOVAH Son=117

PSALM 117 “is” [The Bible's Center], AND the “[smallest chapter]” of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

                       YHVH is GOD=117

Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים (“JEHOVAH GOD“) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Stu]

Quote

You lost another debate and it's not even your debate.

I abandoned an exercise in futility actually! Perhaps you could remind me, but I don't remember you making any valid arguments at all.

Stuart

[Stu]

BD are you claiming NOW, that actually the supposed virgin birth of Jesus is credible because artificial insemination is possible with retention of the title 'virgin', even though EARLIER you were claiming that virgin birth of Jesus was credible because sharks undergo parthenogenesis?

Which is your view?

Stuart

[Ed J]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,16:37)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 25 2010,16:14) Hi Stuart, Has NOT parthenogenesis been proven to occur in mammals before? If so, then why would it be such a stretch to think it possible in Humans? Ed J Ed Ed Ed. But parthenogenesis is not possible in humans, OK? Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Has Science proved this or is this something else you believe by faith?
Like the spontaneous combustion reconfiguring from NOTHINGness into life hypothesis(AKA evilution).

Ed J

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,18:44)

BD are you claiming NOW, that actually the supposed virgin birth of Jesus is credible because artificial insemination is possible with retention of the title 'virgin', even though EARLIER you were claiming that virgin birth of Jesus was credible because sharks undergo parthenogenesis? Which is your view? Stuart

I asked you can a Virgin give Birth you are in such an advanced stage of The Atheism Disease, you couldn't answer no matter how the question was posed.

It's just like when you explained to me that people are born atheist and must be taught God which proved that man could not know about God unless they were taught by God. Which also proves that the person being taught about God would have to have understood.

[Stu]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 25 2010,20:00)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,16:37) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 25 2010,16:14) Hi Stuart, Has NOT parthenogenesis been proven to occur in mammals before? If so, then why would it be such a stretch to think it possible in Humans? Ed J Ed Ed Ed. But parthenogenesis is not possible in humans, OK? Stuart Hi Stuart, Has Science proved this or is this something else you believe by faith? Like the spontaneous combustion reconfiguring from NOTHINGness into life hypothesis(AKA evilution). Ed J

Well parthenogenesis is a real scientific theory, but I have not heard of the spontaneous combustion reconfiguring from NOTHINGness into life hypothesis

Perhaps you could explain what it claims.

Meantime, do your homework!

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 25 2010,21:13)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 25 2010,18:44) BD are you claiming NOW, that actually the supposed virgin birth of Jesus is credible because artificial insemination is possible with retention of the title 'virgin', even though EARLIER you were claiming that virgin birth of Jesus was credible because sharks undergo parthenogenesis? Which is your view? Stuart I asked you can a Virgin give Birth you are in such an advanced stage of The Atheism Disease, you couldn't answer no matter how the question was posed. It's just like when you explained to me that people are born atheist and must be taught God which proved that man could not know about God unless they were taught by God. Which also proves that the person being taught about God would have to have understood.

Are you serious about this artificial insemination pedantry, or are you just quibbling for the sake of it?

The person who 'knew about god' might know what the fantasy story says, but that says nothing about the reality or otherwise of the gods described in it. All your paragraph proves is that you don't realise your own non-sequitur.

Stuart

[kejonn]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 24 2010,21:53)

Um… how is your debate with the theists going, kejonn? Stuart

I would call it debate. More like arguing over the best flavor of ice cream.

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