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Why should I believe your god is real while disbelieving other gods?
Popularity of belief (Argumentum ad populum) does not count.
Quote (kejonn @ Dec. 31 2009,16:33) This thread is open to any theist. Why should I believe your god is real while disbelieving other gods?
Popularity of belief (Argumentum ad populum) does not count.
Hi Kejonn,There are no “gods” There is only God.
Different cultures express their knowledge of God in different ways and languages but it is all the same GOD(Creator)
This is even expressed when those who claim their are “the gods” in some cultures because even in those cultures they always speak about “The Supreme One” or God of the Gods and this is really the Only True God their is.
So you shouldn't disbelieve in God at all, If someone talks about “another” God, it's really only another understanding of God not another actual God because that would be impossible.
Quote (kejonn @ Dec. 31 2009,16:33) This thread is open to any theist. Why should I believe your god is real while disbelieving other gods?
Popularity of belief (Argumentum ad populum) does not count.
Hi KeJohn:You can believe whatever you will, but my God answers me when I pray to Him. Other so called gods are simply non-living idol gods.
Elijah had a little fun with the prophets of Baal in demonstrating this:
Quote 1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came to all the people, and said, “How long will you falter between two opinions? If the LORD [is] God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him.” But the people answered him not a word. 1Ki 18:22 Then Elijah said to the people, “I alone am left a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets [are] four hundred and fifty men.
1Ki 18:23 Therefore let them give us two bulls; and let them choose one bull for themselves, cut it in pieces, and lay [it] on the wood, but put no fire [under it]; and I will prepare the other bull, and lay [it] on the wood, but put no fire [under it].
1Ki 18:24 Then you call on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD; and the God who answers by fire, He is God.” So all the people answered and said, “It is well spoken.”
1Ki 18:25 Now Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose one bull for yourselves and prepare [it] first, for you [are] many; and call on the name of your god, but put no fire [under it].”
1Ki 18:26 So they took the bull which was given them, and they prepared [it], and called on the name of Baal from morning even till noon, saying, “O Baal, hear us!” But [there was] no voice; no one answered. Then they leaped about the altar which they had made.
1Ki 18:27 And so it was, at noon, that Elijah mocked them and said, “Cry aloud, for he [is] a god; either he is meditating, or he is busy, or he is on a journey, [or] perhaps he is sleeping and must be awakened.”
1Ki 18:28 So they cried aloud, and cut themselves, as was their custom, with knives and lances, until the blood gushed out on them.
1Ki 18:29 And when midday was past, they prophesied until the [time] of the offering of the [evening] sacrifice. But [there was] no voice; no one answered, no one paid attention.
1Ki 18:30 Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come near to me.” So all the people came near to him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD [that was] broken down.
1Ki 18:31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom the word of the LORD had come, saying, “Israel shall be your name.” [fn]
1Ki 18:32 Then with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD; and he made a trench around the altar large enough to hold two seahs of seed.
1Ki 18:33 And he put the wood in order, cut the bull in pieces, and laid [it] on the wood, and said, “Fill four waterpots with water, and pour [it] on the burnt sacrifice and on the wood.”
1Ki 18:34 Then he said, “Do [it] a second time,” and they did [it] a second time; and he said, “Do [it] a third time,” and they did [it] a third time.
1Ki 18:35 So the water ran all around the altar; and he also filled the trench with water.
1Ki 18:36 And it came to pass, at [the time of] the offering of the [evening] sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near and said, “LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, let it be known this day that You [are] God in Israel and I [am] Your servant, and [that] I have done all these things at Your word.
1Ki 18:37 Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that You [are] the LORD God, and [that] You have turned their hearts back [to You] again.”
1Ki 18:38 Then the fire of the LORD fell and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood and the stones and the dust, and it licked up the water that [was] in the trench.
1Ki 18:39 Now when all the people saw [it], they fell on their faces; and they said, “The LORD, He [is] God! The LORD, He [is] God!”
Love in Christ,
Martyit would take on the question of: original meaning of god, would it not. the word god is so universal, surely the meaning of the word would have a great definition.
for one, what is the value of life. what is the great purpose of mankind. just to live and die, repopulate, fight, accustome oursleves to the lastest trend
who was the first god or did two or more show up. ancient text show everyone has come from a god culture/nature. if you say dna, genetics, i am sure there is some undiscovered gene, that may chose what god you serve, would that not be exciting, the god particle (for the use of better)
why do so many stories of creation take similiar form, why do some religions, just by a bit are different but the same. i mean take the theory of stuart (only as reference) by some mis fire, apes became human. just that little bit of difference, with the same matter. that catorgizes stuarts' theory with the trinitarians'. sub title so to speak.
what in natural selection has evolved us, to show we are any different from the ancients. where has this evolution taken place in the mind of man.
personally stuart, one point needs to be made in regards to your theory, i did not evolve from an animal, hence the title 'princess'. to place human form and its beauty and throw it to the swines is beneath me.
how could such a wonderous creation be compared with anything, we are the masterpiece of our creator.
i do disagree with you in regards to same sex anything, deep inside has never set right with me, in due process, i will come to this understanding, and i am fine to say i need no more, my heart is set, my mind made. referencing humans here stuart, not the animal kingdom.
am i one to spit on them, no. am i rude to them, no. do i love them, yes. will i involve myself with them, no. i do not fit well within their circle for i would speak no different to you then i do to them, while in the midst of them yelling for the same as me, when it is accepted then you either one in hiding amoung them in denial, and if that doesn't work, you become an unusual and no one can understand why you are there, they become suspicious, strange breed they are. accept me, but you need to do something to join our club, too catholic for me.
do you believe the world will cease to exist, or do you believe mankind will cease to exist.
do you think the apes will evolve into another mankind, a smarter one, one that evolves to a higher intelligence then mankind has today. evolution has a touch of reincarnation to it, first your an ape then you are a human, instead of dying and coming back a mis fire happens and there we have it. sounds a lot how my awesome choc chip cookies were made.
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 02 2010,06:55) Still no theist yet prepared to use the word 'because'… Stuart
Not so STU,I said BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER GOD
kejonn,
Let me first ask, do you believe there to be only one truth, or do you believe there to be many “truths”?Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 01 2010,11:35) Hi Kejonn, There are no “gods” There is only God.
Different cultures express their knowledge of God in different ways and languages but it is all the same GOD(Creator)
Not so. I used to lurk on belief.net and many pagans and heathen believe in more than one god. Some even stated that they had encountered the Abrahamic god and said he was cold and indifferent to them, like he knew they already acknowledged another deity. So they admitted to the existence of your god, so now I want to know why yours is real and theirs is not.
Quote This is even expressed when those who claim their are “the gods” in some cultures because even in those cultures they always speak about “The Supreme One” or God of the Gods and this is really the Only True God their is. Again, many of these pagans and heathen did not speak of a “supreme god”. So your hypothesis does not hold water.
Quote So you shouldn't disbelieve in God at all, If someone talks about “another” God, it's really only another understanding of God not another actual God because that would be impossible.
Hmmm, there are many in the Abrahamic circles who believe that when people speak of “other gods” they are really referring to demons in disguise.If there is only one god, why do so many have a different take on his character?
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2010,13:05)
Hi KeJohn:You can believe whatever you will, but my God answers me when I pray to Him. Other so called gods are simply non-living idol gods.
Elijah had a little fun with the prophets of Baal in demonstrating this:
Love in Christ,
Marty
Its not what I believe, but what others believe. All I am asking is for theists to show me why other gods are false or non-existent while there own god is the only true one. I don't even ask to prove his/her existence because that has been shown to be impossible, at least as of 2010.As to the Elijah scene, we could play out a modern version where I ask you to show the same signs. You would likely find yourself in the same situation as the prophets of Baal.
A story is just that.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2010,16:17) kejonn,
Let me first ask, do you believe there to be only one truth, or do you believe there to be many “truths”?
Truth is truth. There are many truths, but in this realm, no one seems to be able to provide any. They simply show belief and call it “truth”.But there cannot be more than one truth when someone says there is only one god and others say there are more than one. Only one of those statements can be true (or neither is).
So, if you propose the “truth” is that there is only one god, the God of Abraham, then this thread challenges you to show me — not just by providing bible quotes — that your god is real and others are not. As stated before, you don't have to show the reality pf your god, just that another's god is false or non-existent.
As a good starting point, please show me why your god is the only true god while the gods of Asatru are false.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 02 2010,10:59) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2010,13:05)
Hi KeJohn:You can believe whatever you will, but my God answers me when I pray to Him. Other so called gods are simply non-living idol gods.
Elijah had a little fun with the prophets of Baal in demonstrating this:
Love in Christ,
Marty
Its not what I believe, but what others believe. All I am asking is for theists to show me why other gods are false or non-existent while there own god is the only true one. I don't even ask to prove his/her existence because that has been shown to be impossible, at least as of 2010.As to the Elijah scene, we could play out a modern version where I ask you to show the same signs. You would likely find yourself in the same situation as the prophets of Baal.
A story is just that.
Hi KeJohn:The only sign that I can give is my testimony and the evidence of the truth through the life that I live in obedience to His Word.
If my life doesn't reflect what I am preaching, then I am a hypocrite. I know what I was and the man I have become and am becoming since my conversion experience as God, my Father, teaches me.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2010,18:21) Hi KeJohn: The only sign that I can give is my testimony and the evidence of the truth through the life that I live in obedience to His Word.
If my life doesn't reflect what I am preaching, then I am a hypocrite. I know what I was and the man I have become and am becoming since my conversion experience as God, my Father, teaches me.
Love in Christ,
Marty
I can appreciate that Marty. But after leaving Christianity and searching because spirituality seemed to be a part of me I could not ignore, I discovered that testimonies and obedient living was not exclusive to Christianity. I cannot tell you how many times I encountered someone of a different faith or philosophy who made similar claims.That being said, this shows that you cannot provide anything concrete to deny other gods. At best, you can only say that Jesus and his Father are the only ones you will worship.
kejonn,
I agree truth is truth, but I totally disagree that there are many truths. I believe truth to be absolute and unchanging. And while there is one all encompassing truth, it is a lifetime pursuit of trying to uncover it, beset with false trails having many advocates trying to pull us in, we resist some truths because they don't fit our pet theory, and in many cases we're just too lazy or too busy to put the effort in to search for truth.So it is my belief that we are all at various levels of this truth and have portions of the truth in different areas. No one has all truth and all of us have allowed some errors in our belief. However, if you believe that there can be many “truths” then we have no reason to discuss further as we have no common ground to build on.
My opinion – Wm
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 02 2010,11:08) As a good starting point, please show me why your god is the only true god while the gods of Asatru are false.
a better starting place is what is your definition of god.god is just a word, belief in that god is what makes the world go round does it not.
Hi Kejonn
Well its good that you have spirituality.
I could make anything into a God if I wanted. Someone I really love, alive or dead, if theyre all I think about , all I feel guides me, watches over me, But one thing I cant say is that they created the heaven and earth, and were before all. Allthough iv made the person my God, I cant say theyre everyones God too, or existed before all.
I could pick out a God that appeals to me, who teaches kindness, peace and love, thats sort of like shopping, Id rather God revealed himself to me first.
My son is a Buddist or wants to be one, how can I prove to him that the God I follow is the one? I cant. All I can try to be is a good role model, all I can also hope is that people out there in the world are also good role models, and hope that he leads a good life,and causes no harm, which so far hes done. His path is his path. I love him just the same.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 02 2010,11:55) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2010,18:21) Hi KeJohn: The only sign that I can give is my testimony and the evidence of the truth through the life that I live in obedience to His Word.
If my life doesn't reflect what I am preaching, then I am a hypocrite. I know what I was and the man I have become and am becoming since my conversion experience as God, my Father, teaches me.
Love in Christ,
Marty
I can appreciate that Marty. But after leaving Christianity and searching because spirituality seemed to be a part of me I could not ignore, I discovered that testimonies and obedient living was not exclusive to Christianity. I cannot tell you how many times I encountered someone of a different faith or philosophy who made similar claims.That being said, this shows that you cannot provide anything concrete to deny other gods. At best, you can only say that Jesus and his Father are the only ones you will worship.
Hi KeJohn:I can't see anyone who has been born again ever leaving Christianity. I know the truth because I have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and through the many personal experiences that I have gone through with my God since that time as He has taught me and corrected me and as He has spoken to me about my family and about the ministry that He has for me.
It is kind of like the Apostle Paul's Damascus Road experience. How could anyone leave Christianity after something so dramatic has happened in one's life. No, no way, anyone who has gone through something like this would ever leave.
But I can only tell you about these experiences, and you can either believe me or not, but my life should be reflecting the love of God through the life that I live in obedience to His Word. And also, at some time, probably soon, I will be able to share that God has put me in the postion of the Bishop that I have indicated to this forum that He has showed me that He would do.
Most religions believe in a god or gods and teach good works, and I encourage every one to do good works, but my salvation is based on my faith, that is believing God's Word, and what He has done for me the the person of Jesus Christ, and my good works stem because of my faith, which has been confirmed by my born again experience, and my personal experiences since that time, and by my personal relationship with Him, and because my love for Him.
Quote Act 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; Act 17:23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:
Act 17:24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.
Act 17:25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.
Act 17:26 And He has made from one blood [fn] every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
Act 17:27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
Act 17:28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.'
Act 17:29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.
Act 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,
Act 17:31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Jan. 01 2010,20:49) Hi KeJohn: I can't see anyone who has been born again ever leaving Christianity.
Marty,That is not the subject of this thread. Please do not detract.
Quote I know the truth because I have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and through the many personal experiences that I have gone through with my God since that time as He has taught me and corrected me and as He has spoken to me about my family and about the ministry that He has for me. You call it “truth” but it is not a worldwide “truth”, it is a personal “truth”. IOW, it works for you, so that is enough.
Quote It is kind of like the Apostle Paul's Damascus Road experience. How could anyone leave Christianity after something so dramatic has happened in one's life. No, no way, anyone who has gone through something like this would ever leave. Really? Paul describes his life before his “conversion”. He said he was a “Jew of Jews”. Yet, he left that behind for his new religion.
Do not presume.
Quote But I can only tell you about these experiences, and you can either believe me or not, but my life should be reflecting the love of God through the life that I live in obedience to His Word. And also, at some time, probably soon, I will be able to share that God has put me in the postion of the Bishop that I have indicated to this forum that He has showed me that He would do. Erm, please do not bring that up, for your own sake. You have been predicting this would take place for awhile. Has it not happened?
Quote Most religions believe in a god or gods and teach good works, and I encourage every one to do good works, but my salvation is based on my faith, that is believing God's Word, and what He has done for me the the person of Jesus Christ, and my good works stem because of my faith, which has been confirmed by my born again experience, and my personal experiences since that time, and by my personal relationship with Him, and because my love for Him. There is one word you should pay attention to, one word that defines this thread: “Personal”. It is your “personal” experience. Now, how can you show that your personal experiences disqualify the reality of other gods?
Quote (princess of the king @ Jan. 01 2010,19:56) a better starting place is what is your definition of god. Does that really matter? Other people worship other entities — real or imagined — that they call “god”. Please do not detract.
Quote god is just a word, belief in that god is what makes the world go round does it not. Not really, no.
Quote (karmarie @ Jan. 01 2010,20:27) Hi Kejonn Well its good that you have spirituality.
I could make anything into a God if I wanted. Someone I really love, alive or dead, if theyre all I think about , all I feel guides me, watches over me, But one thing I cant say is that they created the heaven and earth, and were before all. Allthough iv made the person my God, I cant say theyre everyones God too, or existed before all.
I could pick out a God that appeals to me, who teaches kindness, peace and love, thats sort of like shopping, Id rather God revealed himself to me first.
My son is a Buddist or wants to be one, how can I prove to him that the God I follow is the one? I cant. All I can try to be is a good role model, all I can also hope is that people out there in the world are also good role models, and hope that he leads a good life,and causes no harm, which so far hes done. His path is his path. I love him just the same.
Did not want to leave you out.There was nothing to respond to in relation to the OP here. But I appreciate your tolerance, of both me and your son.
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