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TO ALL:
Please do not post here except Kathi and Jack,
Kathi,
Please consider answering some question I have for you. You also may ask questions of me.
Question# 1.
Hebrews 1 says that Christ was APPOINTED the heir of all things. This means that Christ cannot be God's literal firstborn because the literal firstborn was NOT the heir by appointment. He was the heir by BIRTHRIGHT.
If Christ was APPOINTED as the heir, then how can He not be the firstborn in the same way?
Jack
Jack,
I agree with Gill on this:that formerly God spoke by many persons, by the prophets, but now by one only, “by his Son”; who is so not by creation, nor by adoption, nor by office, but by nature; being his own Son, his proper Son, begotten of him, of the same nature with him, and equal to him; and so infinitely preferable to the prophets: he is a Son, and not a servant, in whom the Father is, and he in the Father, and in whom the Spirit is without measure; and God is said to speak by him, or in him, because he was now incarnate; and what he says from God should be attended to, both on account of the dignity of his person, as the Son of God, and because of the authority he came with as Mediator: whom he hath appointed heir of all things; which must be understood of him not as God, and Creator; for as such he has a right to all things; all that the Father has are his; the kingdom of nature and providence belongs to him, he being the Former and Maker of all things; but as Mediator, who has all things committed to him, to subserve the ends of his office; and has a kingdom appointed him, and which he will deliver up again the word all may refer either to persons or things; to persons, not angels, good or bad, though both are subject to him, yet neither are called his inheritance; but elect men, who are his portion, and the lot of his inheritance; and to things relating to these persons, and for their use and service, in time, and to all eternity; as all temporal things, and all spiritual ones, the blessings and promises of the covenant of grace, the gifts and graces of the Spirit, and eternal glory and happiness, the saints' inheritance, who are joint heirs with Christ.
found here: http://bible.cc/hebrews/1-2.htm
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ April 07 2011,10:06) Jack,
I agree with Gill on this:that formerly God spoke by many persons, by the prophets, but now by one only, “by his Son”; who is so not by creation, nor by adoption, nor by office, but by nature; being his own Son, his proper Son, begotten of him, of the same nature with him, and equal to him; and so infinitely preferable to the prophets: he is a Son, and not a servant, in whom the Father is, and he in the Father, and in whom the Spirit is without measure; and God is said to speak by him, or in him, because he was now incarnate; and what he says from God should be attended to, both on account of the dignity of his person, as the Son of God, and because of the authority he came with as Mediator: whom he hath appointed heir of all things; which must be understood of him not as God, and Creator; for as such he has a right to all things; all that the Father has are his; the kingdom of nature and providence belongs to him, he being the Former and Maker of all things; but as Mediator, who has all things committed to him, to subserve the ends of his office; and has a kingdom appointed him, and which he will deliver up again the word all may refer either to persons or things; to persons, not angels, good or bad, though both are subject to him, yet neither are called his inheritance; but elect men, who are his portion, and the lot of his inheritance; and to things relating to these persons, and for their use and service, in time, and to all eternity; as all temporal things, and all spiritual ones, the blessings and promises of the covenant of grace, the gifts and graces of the Spirit, and eternal glory and happiness, the saints' inheritance, who are joint heirs with Christ.
found here: http://bible.cc/hebrews/1-2.htm
Kathi
Kathi,How can Jesus be APPOINTED the Heir without being Firstborn in the same way? Are you interested in the scriptures or just what the fallible fathers said?
It is as the Word that Jesus had the same nature as God. John said that the Word was the “true Light.” But you attribute His being Light to His being Son. Why did John say that the Word was the true Light?
Hebrews 1 is only saying that as the human Son was had the same nature as God. In other words, the Word did not lose anything by becoming a human Son.
Jack
Jack,
Was 'the Word' from the first person, second person, or third person? What do you think?Also, what do you think he was appointed heir of in Heb. 1?
The fallible father that you refer to is much more knowledgeable than I am and he confirms generally what I understand. You ought to read more of his writings.
http://www.reformedreader.org/rbb/gill/gillindex.htm
http://www.reformedreader.org/rbb/gill/eternalsonshipofchrist.htm
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ April 08 2011,04:23) Jack,
Was 'the Word' from the first person, second person, or third person? What do you think?Kathi
Kathi,Hold on there Sis! You answer my question and THEN you ask a question of me. Then I answer you and so on.
The literal firstborn was the heir by birthright. But Jesus is the heir by appointment and not by birthright.
Question: Shouldn't Jesus be the Firstborn in the same way that He is the Heir…by appointment?
Jack
Jack,
Quote Shouldn't Jesus be the Firstborn in the same way that He is the Heir…by appointment? No, not necessarily.
There is your answer.
Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ April 08 2011,07:37) Jack, Quote Shouldn't Jesus be the Firstborn in the same way that He is the Heir…by appointment? No, not necessarily.
There is your answer.
Kathi
Then why does Hebrews 1 apply to Christ a prophecy which in the first instance applied to Solomon? How do you infer that a prophecy which applied to a descendant of David is applied to a 'son' that preceded David especially when verse 1 explicitly says that in the last days God spoke through a “son” meaning a human son?Jack
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