Karmarie

[Ed J]

Quote (karmarie @ Jan. 19 2010,18:58)

Ok Ed I will try one more time You were twisting the words of the book of Revelation to change its original meaning to make it-…….. Bd (satan) fell from heaven (heaven net.nz) etc, can you clearly see the warning at the end of the book of Revelation, not to add or take away from the prophecy of the book? Isnt that adding to (and taking away from the original meaning of the prophet) especially when adding an ordinary person into the words of the prophecy of the book? Im guilty if I dont warn you to stop. But I think iv said it 3 times now, Its up to you to reflect.

Hi Karmarie,

Reflected…

Why are you inferring my friend BD is (falsely) satan?

Ed J

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 19 2010,18:59)

ED, besides, have you not said that there are versions of the Bible that you will not use?

Hi BD,

When did I say that?

Ed J

[karmarie]

John 8:58, when Jesus proclaimed to a Jewish crowd, “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am,” He was claiming two aspects of deity for Himself; the eternal existence of God and the name of God.

Jesus was referring His listeners back to Exodus 3:13,14 where Moses tells God:

Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I shall say to them, “The God of your fathers has sent me to you.” Now they may say to me, “What is His name?” What shall I say to them?

God answered Moses,

I AM WHO I AM … Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, “I AM has sent me to you.”

Any Jewish person would have heard Jesus' claim to deity loud and clear. That is why the very next verse in John's account states: “Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him” (John 8:59).

In all, Jesus uses the term “I am” (Gr. Ego eimi) more than nineteen times in reference to Himself in the Gospel according to John. Often it is used to make claims about Himself that normally would be thought appropriate only for God. For example,

I am the bread of life, he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst (6:35);

I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life (8:12);

Unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins (8:24);

I am the good shepherd (10:11-14) [cf. Psalm 23:1: “The LORD is my shepherd”];

I am the resurrection, and the life; He who believes in Me shall live even if he dies (11:25).

Other Scriptures John 4:26; 6:41,48,51; 8:18, 28,58; 10:7,9; 13:19; 14:6; and 15:1.)

From
http://www.greatcom.org/resourc….wer.htm

[Ed J]

Quote (karmarie @ Jan. 19 2010,19:09)

Ed, In reply to above, A moments (controlled) anger is better than a grudge that goes on and on.

Hi Karmarie,

If you hold on to consequences levied against me, than that PROVES you have NOT forgave me?
That is a 'grudge' that goes on and on; and a grudge is 'unforgiveness'!
So If you say that you have forgave me, but continue to hold a grudge, then you LIE! (Rev.22:15 / Rev.21:8)
LIES are also from 'satan', so just admit that you have NOT forgiven me; then you are NOT a LIAR.

You changing your mind NOT to talk to me is NOT a LIE; but to hold a grudge is from 'satan'!
But to deny that you hold unforgiveness in your heart is also from 'satan'.
I personally don't care if you hold a grudge, proving you hold unforgivness in your heart;
but I will NOT accept you lying to me, telling me you have forgiven me when you haven't!
You NEED to repent! Repent simply means to change course!

Quote (karmarie @ Jan. 19 2010,19:15)

We all need to repent of things.

Now I have disclosed to you what specifically you need to repent of!
Prove that you have repented of this grudge! The choice is yours to make.

All I ask is: That you are “Truthful” with me and admit that you have NOT forgiven me and we can go on as if nothing happened.
But to insist that you have forgiven me, when you haven't, is to persist in 'the problem'!
And it is NOT my problem, it is your problem! Because you “betrayed my trust” as well and I have already forgiven you!
I can betray your trust once again and prove that you continue to hold onto this grudge! Is that where we are headed?
Matt.18:21-22 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me,
and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee,
Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

                            “HolyCity”=117

Rev.22:15 For without(outside of) [“HolyCity”=117] are dogs, and sorcerers,
and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Are you going to form a LIE and deny your unforginness? The choice is yours to make?
Rev.21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers,
and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, (Rev.19:15)
shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Only “Truth” will do!
Ed J (Daniel 11:18 / Isaiah 60:13-14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (karmarie @ Jan. 19 2010,19:09)

Ed, Again, im warning you otherwise im guilty of not doing so,

Hi Karmarie,

What the heck does this mean?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (karmarie @ Jan. 19 2010,20:56)

God answered Moses, I AM WHO I AM … Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, “I AM has sent me to you.”

Hi karmarie,

The standardized translation of ‘I am that I am’ can be proven to be wrong;
yet the N.W.T. (JW's) version of the Bible has this phrase (אהיה אשר אהיה) translated correctly.

Exodus 3:14 in the N.W.T.: …“I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE”…

The AKJV linguists successfully translated the phrase אהיה into “I WILL” hundreds of times in the “Old Testament”.
The AKJV translators also added words (which they italicized) to aid in translational differences;
they did this practice throughout the bible so as to NOT corrupt it!

The AKJV linguists should have translated אהיה אשר אהיה into “I WILL BE WHAT I WILL BE” (“Will be”=63 and “YHVH”=63);
this can be proven! The phrase ‘i am’ cannot be translated back into Hebrew; for it ‘i am’ is the product of man.
‘i am’ has now turned into the false god of religion! Let’s see what the N.W.T. says in Ezek. 28:2.

N.W.T. Ezek. 28:2: …“For the reason that your heart has become haughty, (Psalm 18:25-27)
AND YOU KEEP SAYING, ‘i am' 'a god'. In the seat of god” (guess who?) I have seated myself…

This sounds remarkably eerily like what it says in 2Thess.2:4.

N.W.T. 2Thess.2:4 “He (‘i am’) is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone
who is called God=63(YHVH=63) or an object of reverence,
so that he (i am) sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god.”

'The devil's trick'; 'i am'! (AKJV Psalm 102:11-13)

AKJV Mark 13:6: For many(like Karmarie) shall come in my(Christ's) name
    (claiming to be a Christian), saying, I am; and shall deceive many.
Job 41:34 He(satan) beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

AKJV Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual:
    but I am carnal, sold under sin.

AKJV Romans 8:6: For to be carnally minded is death;
    but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

The AKJV bible was completed and in the public's hands in 1611.
The AKJV bible is going to bring about satan's final defeat!

AKJV John 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world (i am=23) is judged.
    The prince of this world is 'i am'(satan; the son of perdition).

AKJV 2Thess.2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
AKJV 2Thess.2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God=63(YHVH=63),
or that is worshipped; so that he as (i am)God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he(satan) is God.

AKJV 2Thess.2:8-9 And then shall that Wicked (i am) be revealed,
whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth (Rev.19:15),
and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him('i am'), whose coming
is after the working of Satan (Mark 13:6) with all power and signs and lying wonders

AKJV Mark 13:6: For many(like Karmarie) shall come in my(Christ's) name
    (claiming to be a Christian), saying, I am; and shall deceive many.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm (JEHOVAH GOD)! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (Daniel 11:18 / Hebrews 11:34 / Isaiah 54:17)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (karmarie @ Jan. 19 2010,20:56)

John 8:58, when Jesus proclaimed to a Jewish crowd, “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am,” He was claiming two aspects of deity for Himself; the eternal existence of God and the name of God. Jesus was referring His listeners back to Exodus 3:13,14 where Moses tells God: Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I shall say to them, “The God of your fathers has sent me to you.” Now they may say to me, “What is His name?” What shall I say to them? God answered Moses, I AM WHO I AM … Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, “I AM has sent me to you.” Any Jewish person would have heard Jesus' claim to deity loud and clear. That is why the very next verse in John's account states: “Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him” (John 8:59). In all, Jesus uses the term “I am” (Gr. Ego eimi) more than nineteen times in reference to Himself in the Gospel according to John. Often it is used to make claims about Himself that normally would be thought appropriate only for God. For example, I am the bread of life, he who comes to Me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst (6:35); I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life (8:12); Unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins (8:24); I am the good shepherd (10:11-14) [cf. Psalm 23:1: “The LORD is my shepherd”]; I am the resurrection, and the life; He who believes in Me shall live even if he dies (11:25). Other Scriptures  John 4:26; 6:41,48,51; 8:18, 28,58; 10:7,9; 13:19; 14:6; and 15:1.) From http://www.greatcom.org/resourc….wer.htm

Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place , and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
21 Knowest thou it , because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;
26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;
27 To satisfy the desolate and waste ground ; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?
28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are ?
36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?
37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?
39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,
40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?
41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.
Job39:1 Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth? or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve?
2 Canst thou number the months that they fulfil? or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?
3 They bow themselves, they bring forth their young ones, they cast out their sorrows.
4 Their young ones are in good liking, they grow up with corn; they go forth, and return not unto them.
5 Who hath sent out the wild ass free? or who hath loosed the bands of the wild ass?
6 Whose house I have made the wilderness, and the barren land his dwellings.
7 He scorneth the multitude of the city, neither regardeth he the crying of the driver.
8 The range of the mountains is his pasture, and he searcheth after every green thing.
9 Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?
10 Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?
11 Wilt thou trust him, because his strength is great? or wilt thou leave thy labour to him?
12 Wilt thou believe him, that he will bring home thy seed, and gather it into thy barn?
13 Gavest thou the goodly wings unto the peacocks? or wings and feathers unto the ostrich?
14 Which leaveth her eggs in the earth, and warmeth them in dust,
15 And forgetteth that the foot may crush them, or that the wild beast may break them.
16 She is hardened against her young ones, as though they were not hers: her labour is in vain without fear;
17 Because God hath deprived her of wisdom, neither hath he imparted to her understanding.
18 What time she lifteth up herself on high, she scorneth the horse and his rider.
19 Hast thou given the horse strength? hast thou clothed his neck with thunder?
20 Canst thou make him afraid as a grasshopper? the glory of his nostrils is terrible.
21 He paweth in the valley, and rejoiceth in his strength: he goeth on to meet the armed men.
22 He mocketh at fear, and is not affrighted; neither turneth he back from the sword.
23 The quiver rattleth against him, the glittering spear and the shield.
24 He swalloweth the ground with fierceness and rage: neither believeth he that it is the sound of the trumpet.
25 He saith among the trumpets, Ha, ha; and he smelleth the ba
ttle afar off, the thunder of the captains, and the shouting.
26 Doth the hawk fly by thy wisdom, and stretch her wings toward the south?
27 Doth the eagle mount up at thy command, and make her nest on high?
28 She dwelleth and abideth on the rock, upon the crag of the rock, and the strong place.
29 From thence she seeketh the prey, and her eyes behold afar off.
30 Her young ones also suck up blood: and where the slain are , there is she.
Job40:11 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him ? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
3 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.
5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.
6 Then answered the LORD unto Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?
9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?
10 Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty.
11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him.
12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place.
13 Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.
14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm (JEHOVAH GOD)! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (Eccl.9:12-16 / Daniel 11:18)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[karmarie]

Ed I still dont get you with the -I am -stuff,

And iv told you allready I forgive you! What do I have to do? Im more worried about what Bod thinks.

[karmarie]

You bet me with that post by a minute, but im tired, its nearly 1 am here, read it tomorrow k.

[bodhitharta]

ED,

You are still not answering what I asked you and the reason is you would have to face the wasted time you invested in creating theology that isn't correct. If God says “I WILL” or “I AM” or I SHALL BE” what part of that is false?

Would God be wrong to say “I AM” If we asked God to whom should we say sent us?

You really don't have to answer my questions it really doesn't matter to me because I know that you would have to
give up your theory in order to answer the question.

There is no valid reason for you to even have the theory, it's just like your misunderstanding of the word ALLAH whom Christians all over the Middle east read about in their translated Authorized King James version Bibles.

So you must Agree then when God refers to Himself in The Quran it is the One and same God or you deny that these Christians believe in God.

Stop confusing yourself Brother,

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 20 2010,12:27)

ED, You are still not answering what I asked you and the reason is you would have to face the wasted time

Hi BD,

It is a big waste of my time corresponding with you; I should stop.
Everybody that claims 'blah blah' as their god are in a constant state of war.

I have explained to you many times, that is satan.
LIES remain lies no matter how many times you call lies truth.
I admit you are deceived by satan. And your questions are ONLY
intended for controversy; why should I respond to you at all?

Ed J

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 20 2010,17:40)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 20 2010,12:27) ED, You are still not answering what I asked you and the reason is you would have to face the wasted time Hi BD, It is a big waste of my time corresponding with you; I should stop. Everybody that claims 'blah blah' as their god are in a constant state of war. I have explained to you many times, that is satan. LIES remain lies no matter how many times you call lies truth. I admit you are deceived by satan. And your questions are ONLY intended for controversy; why should I respond to you at all? Ed J

AKJV

The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
Exodus 15:2-4

Exodus 15:2-4 (Young's Literal Translation)

2My strength and song is JAH, And He is become my salvation: This [is] my God, and I glorify Him; God of my father, and I exalt Him.

3Jehovah [is] a man of battle; Jehovah [is] His name.

4Chariots of Pharaoh and his force He hath cast into the sea; And the choice of his captains Have sunk in the Red Sea!

For there fell down many slain, because the war was of God. And they dwelt in their steads until the captivity.
1 Chronicles 5:21-23

Isaiah 42:12-13 (Young's Literal Translation)

12They ascribe to Jehovah honour, And His praise in the isles they declare.

13Jehovah as a mighty one goeth forth. As a man of war He stirreth up zeal, He crieth, yea, He shrieketh, Against His enemies He showeth Himself mighty.

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 19 2010,08:26)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 18 2010,15:17) BD Quote What do you mean never in humans? This was declared about Jesus 2000 years ago, All your saying is that if mary had a doctor and the doctor said it happened you would then say it is true. Why do you even believe the shark had a virgin birth? I believe on the basis that there is unambiguous evidence to believe it.  Unless you can provide such evidence for HUMAN VIRGIN BIRTH then you will have to be content with convincing those who have a lower standard of probity than I do.  Hearsay reportings by religious zealots of the alleged sayings of an ancient Palestinian carpenter-preacher who may or may not have existed do not, for me, constitute unambiguous evidence.  I have also provided you with the evidence that parthenogenesis cannot happen in humans because of genomic imprinting.  It is you making the extraordinary claim without supporting it with extraordinary evidence.   Quote You have the atheist disease: No evidence of God is valid to you. Maybe we could test that by you providing some.  Otherwise, as kejonn said, it is that broken record with the hit islamic single by the Oft-Disproved Boys.  The B-side has the top twenty classic on the Iranian charts “Reality Makes No Difference to Me Quote As Far as tonsils are concerned the removal of them if necessary is good just like the appendix or the spleen or the gullbladder or one of your kidneys…etc Why is it you think that there are so many things that can be removed without killing the person or animal? This is further proof of GOD. But I ask you if we don't need 2 kidneys to live is one vestigial? It is evidence that there are two gods, and each one provides one organ each to every human they create.  Except for some organs, like the spleen, because one of the gods has agreed that he is not very good at things like spleens and so should desist from making them. They take turns with bladders. UNAMBIGUOUS evidence please! Stuart You have the atheist disease: No evidence of God is valid to you. Also, when you try to dismiss it you insanely talk about “gods” after you just stated that you don't believe in them. You have the atheist disease: No evidence of God is valid to you.

It is skepticism, not a disease. It is the attitude that has demanded better from people, better insights into how the universe works, and has resulted in, for example, medical treatments that actually work and are more likely to cure than to kill. You directly benefit from this skepticism in this way and many others, yet you rubbish it. And you have called ME hypocritical!

I don't believe in any gods. You don't appear to believe in English grammar.

I will listen to any evidence that unambiguously indicates any god at all. I set a high standard for you here, is your belief system up to it? No serious philosopher for a very long time has suggested that there is any such thing as a proof of a god. Will you be taking them all on too?

Step one actually, is to make a falsifiable statement about your god. Tell me one thing that is true about it that could be disproved if it was wrong. Read Popper and learn what it is to demonstrate something to be true.

Stuart

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 21 2010,08:33)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 19 2010,08:26) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 18 2010,15:17) BD Quote What do you mean never in humans? This was declared about Jesus 2000 years ago, All your saying is that if mary had a doctor and the doctor said it happened you would then say it is true. Why do you even believe the shark had a virgin birth? I believe on the basis that there is unambiguous evidence to believe it.  Unless you can provide such evidence for HUMAN VIRGIN BIRTH then you will have to be content with convincing those who have a lower standard of probity than I do.  Hearsay reportings by religious zealots of the alleged sayings of an ancient Palestinian carpenter-preacher who may or may not have existed do not, for me, constitute unambiguous evidence.  I have also provided you with the evidence that parthenogenesis cannot happen in humans because of genomic imprinting.  It is you making the extraordinary claim without supporting it with extraordinary evidence.   Quote You have the atheist disease: No evidence of God is valid to you. Maybe we could test that by you providing some.  Otherwise, as kejonn said, it is that broken record with the hit islamic single by the Oft-Disproved Boys.  The B-side has the top twenty classic on the Iranian charts “Reality Makes No Difference to Me Quote As Far as tonsils are concerned the removal of them if necessary is good just like the appendix or the spleen or the gullbladder or one of your kidneys…etc Why is it you think that there are so many things that can be removed without killing the person or animal? This is further proof of GOD. But I ask you if we don't need 2 kidneys to live is one vestigial? It is evidence that there are two gods, and each one provides one organ each to every human they create.  Except for some organs, like the spleen, because one of the gods has agreed that he is not very good at things like spleens and so should desist from making them. They take turns with bladders. UNAMBIGUOUS evidence please! Stuart You have the atheist disease: No evidence of God is valid to you. Also, when you try to dismiss it you insanely talk about “gods” after you just stated that you don't believe in them. You have the atheist disease: No evidence of God is valid to you. It is skepticism, not a disease.  It is the attitude that has demanded better from people, better insights into how the universe works, and has resulted in, for example, medical treatments that actually work and are more likely to cure than to kill.  You directly benefit from this skepticism in this way and many others, yet you rubbish it.  And you have called ME hypocritical! I don't believe in any gods.  You don't appear to believe in English grammar. I will listen to any evidence that unambiguously indicates any god at all.  I set a high standard for you here, is your belief system up to it?  No serious philosopher for a very long time has suggested that there is any such thing as a proof of a god.  Will you be taking them all on too? Step one actually, is to make a falsifiable statement about your god.  Tell me one thing that is true about it that could be disproved if it was wrong.  Read Popper and learn what it is to demonstrate something to be true. Stuart

Wasn't Aristotle a serious philosopher who believed in God?

If you believe in Socrates why not use the same standard, Why do you believe Socrates existed?

[Ed J]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 21 2010,08:33)

Stuart

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 19 2010 @ 08:23)

ED, After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. Genesis 15:1-3 And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it. Genesis 15:6-8 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Genesis 17:1-3 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; Genesis 28:12-14 You see my point ED, you're obsessing yourself with numbers to the point where you are straying away from the truth.

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 19 2010,08:04)

Quote (karmarie @ Jan. 19 2010,07:10) Hi Ed sorry I dont have time to respond right now (Later), but just quickly, you did [ADD THINGS] to the verse in rev, you added 'heaven net.nz and BD (Bodhitharta) and others, and thats just one example I found, and most think the warning only applies to that specific book (revelation) the prophecy of this book, it was a book on its own untill it was added to cannon. You are 100% right that warning applies to the book it was written in. However, of course ED shouldn't be doing it with any part of the bible because it's misleading.

Hi Stuart and BD,

I have a question for you to answer for me Stuart.
After reading all of this post could you answer the questions on the bottom for both me and BD?

You are now illustrating Bible verses without “THE PROPER” italics “ONCE AGAIN”; words that are NOT in the “ORIGINAL TEXTS”!
I know how your memory “FAILS” you! That is why you are adding underlining and adding emboldenments to words that should be italicized!
Did you NOT: Just accuse me of (ADDING THINGS), “exactly” what you have now just DONE in this “Post”; I ask Stuart to answer this question in my behalf?
I call on my friend Stuart, which (I KNOW) can answer that question (in my behalf) without “ANY” (preconceived religious bigotry) “BIAS”; which 'you' probably cannot!

Here are “two” (pressing) questions for you though, BD!
First: Is this NOT being 'hypocritical' on your part? And…
Secondly: Is this NOT being 'hypocrite', (a 'false truth') another faulty belief?  

Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
117=יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 21 2010,22:19)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 21 2010,08:33) Stuart Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 19 2010 @ 08:23) ED, After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. Genesis 15:1-3 And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it. Genesis 15:6-8 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. Genesis 17:1-3 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed; Genesis 28:12-14 You see my point ED, you're obsessing yourself with numbers to the point where you are straying away from the truth. Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 19 2010,08:04) Quote (karmarie @ Jan. 19 2010,07:10) Hi Ed sorry I dont have time to respond right now (Later), but just quickly, you did [ADD THINGS] to the verse in rev, you added 'heaven net.nz and BD (Bodhitharta) and others, and thats just one example I found, and most think the warning only applies to that specific book (revelation) the prophecy of this book, it was a book on its own untill it was added to cannon. You are 100% right that warning applies to the book it was written in. However, of course ED shouldn't be doing it with any part of the bible because it's misleading. Hi Stuart and BD, I have a question for you to answer for me Stuart. After reading all of this post could you answer the questions on the bottom for both me and BD? You are now illustrating Bible verses without “THE PROPER” italics “ONCE AGAIN”; words that are NOT in the “ORIGINAL TEXTS”! I know how your memory “FAILS” you! That is why you are adding underlining and adding emboldenments to words that should be italicized! Did you NOT: Just accuse me of (ADDING THINGS), “exactly” what you have now just DONE in this “Post”; I ask Stuart to answer this question in my behalf? I call on my friend Stuart, which (I KNOW) can answer that question (in my behalf) without “ANY” (preconceived religious bigotry) “BIAS”; which 'you' probably cannot! Here are “two” (pressing) questions for you though, BD! First: Is this NOT being 'hypocritical' on your part? And… Secondly: Is this NOT being 'hypocrite', (a 'false truth') another faulty belief?   Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34) Witnessing to the world in behalf of… 117=יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

To highlight or embolden is not to change the meaning. In-fact you said yourself that the AKJV “added” Italics to show what they “Added” but at the same time you say what they added in the case of “I am” was a false God.

You have added a meaning even to thier added text. What you were also doing was using() to suggest and alter meaning or apply meaning and context where there was none often creating problems where none existed.

If someone writes:

And he (BD) said unto them, I beheld Satan (ED) as lightning fall from heaven (The forum).
Luke 10:17-19

That is a corruptible thing to write and suppose someone reading the forums really believes in the things I say or admires me view of things, wouldn't that be misleading them? David koresh and others often applied the verses of the Bible to them making their believers see things that were not really pertaining to them.

It is a very dangerous and false thing to do, to mix the message up. If you have seen something in the Bible that lead you to believe that you are witnessing for God that is fine, teach the scriptures and teach what you believe about the scriptures but you should not alter the meaning of those scriptures to comply with your theology.

STU wrote about Godwyns Law which is that the longer a thread goes the likelihood that someone will mention Hitler in a comparison increases. Well you applying Satan to people is similar.

[Stu]

The problem here is with scripture. In BD's case an illiterate and violent religious crusader left it to a committee of followers to write down what he said, a job which they completed, no doubt with many arguments, after his death, leaving life-or-death ambiguities all through it and adding later a set of alleged other utterances by the man that really confuse people, and some refuse to even read. In Ed's case, at least as far as the synoptics are concerned, it is a group of people desperately trying to rewrite history and make up stories so the man they decided to make into a religious martyr after his death can be seen to fulfill what they thought were prophecies.

In both cases, if you can change the meaning of the writing by changing the emphasis just through bolding or italicising then I think you have to look at your own relationship to that writing.

Are you intending to mindlessly follow it, whatever emphasis looks most plausible to you, or are you going to check it against the principles that are hard-wired in you by natural selection and also derived from your interaction with your culture?

If your scripture says that killing is wrong, and your own conclusion from your 'gut instinct', your upbringing and interaction with others, and your own process of reasoning about what is in your own best interests and the interests of those you love is that killing is in general a poor option in most instances, then you should conclude that it is a principle not to kill.

If you have gone through the reasoning yourself, and your scripture says don't kill, except say, when people are oppressing you because you are proclaiming the other things written in the scripture, then what are you to do?

If your scripture MIGHT or MIGHT NOT say that the old laws no longer apply to you, and that one of the old laws appears to require you to kill adulterers, then what are you to do?

As your scripture becomes the least bit unclear, you need to fall back on your own (usually reliable) resources. Remember humanity has made it though almost exactly 99% of its entire history WITHOUT christianity or mohammadism. I'm sure it was a brutal existence for many in prehistory, but they must have been following ethics that allowed us to survive and prosper, and let's not forget that in the last 2000 years people have endured a brutal existence BECAUSE of christianity and mohammadism!

So, run it by your REAL moral compass, the one every human is born with and most are allowed to develop without reference to dead superheroes. If you have had a fundamentalist upbringing that has only referenced the book of scriptures, then perhaps you should sue your childhood caregivers for their lack of care for you.

Forget the italicising and bolding of scriptural platitudes. Use the thing between your ears! Honestly I am amazed how many religious folk trot out mindless nonsense about being part of a plan unleashed by a perfect creator, and then they won't use the brain they allege was given to them by that perfect Imaginary Friend. Do they not really trust their god-given brain?? Obviously they trust the writings of men over it.

[/rant]

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 21 2010,12:42)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 21 2010,08:33) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 19 2010,08:26) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 18 2010,15:17) BD Quote What do you mean never in humans? This was declared about Jesus 2000 years ago, All your saying is that if mary had a doctor and the doctor said it happened you would then say it is true. Why do you even believe the shark had a virgin birth? I believe on the basis that there is unambiguous evidence to believe it.  Unless you can provide such evidence for HUMAN VIRGIN BIRTH then you will have to be content with convincing those who have a lower standard of probity than I do.  Hearsay reportings by religious zealots of the alleged sayings of an ancient Palestinian carpenter-preacher who may or may not have existed do not, for me, constitute unambiguous evidence.  I have also provided you with the evidence that parthenogenesis cannot happen in humans because of genomic imprinting.  It is you making the extraordinary claim without supporting it with extraordinary evidence.   Quote You have the atheist disease: No evidence of God is valid to you. Maybe we could test that by you providing some.  Otherwise, as kejonn said, it is that broken record with the hit islamic single by the Oft-Disproved Boys.  The B-side has the top twenty classic on the Iranian charts “Reality Makes No Difference to Me Quote As Far as tonsils are concerned the removal of them if necessary is good just like the appendix or the spleen or the gullbladder or one of your kidneys…etc Why is it you think that there are so many things that can be removed without killing the person or animal? This is further proof of GOD. But I ask you if we don't need 2 kidneys to live is one vestigial? It is evidence that there are two gods, and each one provides one organ each to every human they create.  Except for some organs, like the spleen, because one of the gods has agreed that he is not very good at things like spleens and so should desist from making them. They take turns with bladders. UNAMBIGUOUS evidence please! Stuart You have the atheist disease: No evidence of God is valid to you. Also, when you try to dismiss it you insanely talk about “gods” after you just stated that you don't believe in them. You have the atheist disease: No evidence of God is valid to you. It is skepticism, not a disease.  It is the attitude that has demanded better from people, better insights into how the universe works, and has resulted in, for example, medical treatments that actually work and are more likely to cure than to kill.  You directly benefit from this skepticism in this way and many others, yet you rubbish it.  And you have called ME hypocritical! I don't believe in any gods.  You don't appear to believe in English grammar. I will listen to any evidence that unambiguously indicates any god at all.  I set a high standard for you here, is your belief system up to it?  No serious philosopher for a very long time has suggested that there is any such thing as a proof of a god.  Will you be taking them all on too? Step one actually, is to make a falsifiable statement about your god.  Tell me one thing that is true about it that could be disproved if it was wrong.  Read Popper and learn what it is to demonstrate something to be true. Stuart Wasn't Aristotle a serious philosopher who believed in God? If you believe in Socrates why not use the same standard, Why do you believe Socrates existed?

You have missed the point altogether. Or avoided it.

It does not matter what Aristotle's profession was. If he was a god believer then it was on the basis of no evidence whatever; that is he had religious faith. Aristotle never proved the existence of his god.

What does the existence of Socrates have to do with it? There is evidence for his existence, but none for your god. That does not prove the existence of Socrates, but it is a reasonable conclusion that he did actually exist. It is an unreasonable conclusion that there is any kind of god at all.

Stuart

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 22 2010,16:52)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 21 2010,12:42) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 21 2010,08:33) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 19 2010,08:26) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 18 2010,15:17) BD Quote What do you mean never in humans? This was declared about Jesus 2000 years ago, All your saying is that if mary had a doctor and the doctor said it happened you would then say it is true. Why do you even believe the shark had a virgin birth? I believe on the basis that there is unambiguous evidence to believe it.  Unless you can provide such evidence for HUMAN VIRGIN BIRTH then you will have to be content with convincing those who have a lower standard of probity than I do.  Hearsay reportings by religious zealots of the alleged sayings of an ancient Palestinian carpenter-preacher who may or may not have existed do not, for me, constitute unambiguous evidence.  I have also provided you with the evidence that parthenogenesis cannot happen in humans because of genomic imprinting.  It is you making the extraordinary claim without supporting it with extraordinary evidence.   Quote You have the atheist disease: No evidence of God is valid to you. Maybe we could test that by you providing some.  Otherwise, as kejonn said, it is that broken record with the hit islamic single by the Oft-Disproved Boys.  The B-side has the top twenty classic on the Iranian charts “Reality Makes No Difference to Me Quote As Far as tonsils are concerned the removal of them if necessary is good just like the appendix or the spleen or the gullbladder or one of your kidneys…etc Why is it you think that there are so many things that can be removed without killing the person or animal? This is further proof of GOD. But I ask you if we don't need 2 kidneys to live is one vestigial? It is evidence that there are two gods, and each one provides one organ each to every human they create.  Except for some organs, like the spleen, because one of the gods has agreed that he is not very good at things like spleens and so should desist from making them. They take turns with bladders. UNAMBIGUOUS evidence please! Stuart You have the atheist disease: No evidence of God is valid to you. Also, when you try to dismiss it you insanely talk about “gods” after you just stated that you don't believe in them. You have the atheist disease: No evidence of God is valid to you. It is skepticism, not a disease.  It is the attitude that has demanded better from people, better insights into how the universe works, and has resulted in, for example, medical treatments that actually work and are more likely to cure than to kill.  You directly benefit from this skepticism in this way and many others, yet you rubbish it.  And you have called ME hypocritical! I don't believe in any gods.  You don't appear to believe in English grammar. I will listen to any evidence that unambiguously indicates any god at all.  I set a high standard for you here, is your belief system up to it?  No serious philosopher for a very long time has suggested that there is any such thing as a proof of a god.  Will you be taking them all on too? Step one actually, is to make a falsifiable statement about your god.  Tell me one thing that is true about it that could be disproved if it was wrong.  Read Popper and learn what it is to demonstrate something to be true. Stuart Wasn't Aristotle a serious philosopher who believed in God? If you believe in Socrates why not use the same standard, Why do you believe Socrates existed? You have missed the point altogether.  Or avoided it. It does not matter what Aristotle's profession was.  If he was a god believer then it was on the basis of no evidence whatever; that is he had religious faith.  Aristotle never proved the existence of his god. What does the existence of Socrates have to do with it?  There is evidence for his existence, but none for your god. That does not prove the existence of Socrates, but it is a reasonable conclusion that he did actually exist.  It is an unreasonable conclusion that there is any kind of god at all. Stuart

What is the evidence that socrates lived?

How could it be unreasonable to believe in the existence of God but not Socrates?

Every culture has come to the conclusion that there is a God independent of other cultures yet every culture has not independently discovered Socrates and many have still never heard of him.

As I said you don't apply the same logic equally to God as you do other things.

you really believe that the 5 senses came about without reason. That is why I say that you have the Atheist Disease you betray your own sense of logic and reason when it comes to God.

[Ed J]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 22 2010,16:45)

Forget the italicising and bolding of scriptural platitudes.  Use the thing between your ears! Honestly I am amazed how many religious folk trot out mindless nonsense about being part of a plan unleashed by a perfect creator, and then they won't use the brain they allege was given to them by that perfect Imaginary Friend.   Do they not really trust their God-given brain??  Obviously they trust the writings of men over it. [/rant] Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Yes Stuart, you should drop the man made writings of a false evolution!
Your God-given mind should realize the garbage it really is! (Jer.2:27)

BD, I would like to point directly to 'the problem': satan's 'title' is 'i am'!
Look in the context of what Stuart is talking about to PROVE my point.

Judgmental accusations against “OUR YHVH”=117(The Creator). Then, more Judgmental accusations on
how Stuart feels(based on satan's influence of his mind) we should share mindless thoughts like Stuarts.
BD, can you NOT SEE this is REALLY satan's title in work in Stuarts mind to blaspheme?

At least Stuart admits that our brains were God-given! So there is hope my Brother!
I believe you are not wasting your time, and glad you came back, my Brother!

God bless
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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