Karmarie

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,16:31)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,16:27)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:28)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,15:17)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:13)

I had to check first but you are correct
NZ has the highest suicide rate in the world
so STU, you should help the youth and drop your
secular garbage it isn't working

It really is a shame you are too lazy to do your own thinking and your own research BD.

Can you demonstrate a causal relationship between religion and suicide rates?

Can you show that the rates would not be higher with higher levels of religious belief?

Of course you can't.

Islam: the religion for those who can't think critically.

Stuart

NZ has the highest suicide rate in the world

Atheism is killing more youth than any other thought or philosophy

Provide evidence of causality. I have done that in the case of the young people of your religion whose last words before their self-annihilation are “god is great”. There is no question that islam is a factor in youth suicide. The young people scream their motive beforehand!

How about you demonstrate (as opposed to just repeating WHAT YOU RECON) that it is a religious effect in the case of the young people living in my country.

Stuart

It's not a religuous effect but the lack of one.

So by that logic you are still claiming it is a religious effect.

Stuart

January 9, 2010 at 7:56 am#169378

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki….s_Index

Participant

Here is the List of countries by Corruption Perceptions Index from Wikipedia:

Countries are listed from least corrupt to most corrupt. This was the list in 2008. In 2009 New Zealand came first in the list.

Denmark
New Zealand
Sweden
Singapore
Finland
Switzerland
Netherlands
Canada
Australia
Luxembourg
Austria
Norway
Germany
United Kingdom
Ireland
Belgium
Japan
United States
Saint Lucia
Barbados
France
Chile
Uruguay
Slovenia
Estonia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Qatar
Spain
Cyprus
Portugal
Dominica
Israel
United Arab Emirates
Malta
Puerto Rico
Taiwan
Botswana
South Korea
Mauritius
Oman
Macau
Bahrain
Bhutan
Czech Republic
Costa Rica
Cape Verde
Hungary
Malaysia
Jordan
Slovakia
Latvia
South Africa
Italy
Seychelles
Greece

Lithuania
Poland
Turkey
Namibia
Croatia
Samoa
Tunisia
Cuba
Kuwait
El Salvador
Ghana
Georgia
Colombia
Romania
China
Bulgaria
Suriname
Mexico
Peru
Trinidad and Tobago
Macedonia
Swaziland
Brazil
Morocco
Saudi Arabia
Burkina Faso
Thailand
Senegal
Montenegro
Serbia
Madagascar
Panama
Albania
India
Grenada
Algeria
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Lesotho
Sri Lanka
Gabon
Jamaica
Kiribati
Guatemala
Benin
Mali
Bolivia
Djibouti
Dominican Republic
Tanzania
Lebanon
Mongolia
Rwanda
Vanuatu
Armenia

Belize
Argentina
Moldova
Solomon Islands
Maldives
Egypt
Malawi
Mauritania
Niger
Zambia
São Tomé and Príncipe
Vietnam
Nepal
Togo
Nigeria
Eritrea
Guyana
Honduras
Libya
Mozambique
Ethiopia
Uganda
Indonesia
Pakistan
Comoros
Ukraine
Nicaragua
Liberia
Tonga
Paraguay
Iran
Philippines
Yemen
Cameroon
Timor-Leste
Kazakhstan
Syria
Russia
Kenya
Bangladesh
Belarus
Côte d'Ivoire
Ecuador
Tajikistan
Central African Republic
Papua New Guinea
Laos
Burundi
Gambia
Angola
Guinea-Bissau
Azerbaijan
Congo
Sierra Leone
Venezuela
Kyrgyzstan
Zimbabwe
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan
Cambodia
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Equatorial Guinea
Guinea
Chad
Sudan
Afghanistan
Haiti
Iraq
Myanmar
Somalia

I have bolded the countries that are significantly ‘islamic’.

Judging by the predominance of bolded countries in the bottom part of the list, this must demonstrate that islam causes corruption. Would you agree?

Stuart

January 9, 2010 at 7:57 am#169379

Participant

Oops. Debold India and Grenada.

Stuart

January 9, 2010 at 11:09 am#169386

TimothyVI

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:10)

There is absolutuely nothing worse than Youth Suicides.

In my opinion there is something much worse than youth suicides.
That is when the delusioned suicidal youth insists on taking hundreds of innocent lives along with his own in the name of his god.

Tim

January 9, 2010 at 11:25 am#169387

karmarie

Participant

Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 09 2010,22:09)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:10)

There is absolutuely nothing worse than Youth Suicides.

In my opinion there is something much worse than youth suicides.
That is when the delusioned suicidal youth insists on taking hundreds of innocent lives along with his own in the name of his god.

Tim

Thats true TimothyV1, but the state of sadness and grief of the one suicidal youth IMO would be for them much harder than the one delusional youth who takes alot of innocent people with him.

One is personally lost and despairing and has been let down by society. And is alone.
The other thinks he is doing a great thing for his beliefs, and has been falsley taught.

January 9, 2010 at 4:25 pm#169407

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,22:28)

NZ has the highest suicide rate in the world[/quote]

Source? Every site I found did not even have them in the top 10.

Here is one: http://www.aneki.com/suicide.html

Atheism is killing more youth than any other thought or philosophy

Can you compare the number of suicides in more secular countries to the number killed in Islamic countries by bombings and shootings? How many people are killed in Islamic countries due to fighting between factions?

January 9, 2010 at 5:26 pm#169412

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki….s_Index

Participant

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2010,18:56)

Here is the List of countries by Corruption Perceptions Index from Wikipedia:

Countries are listed from least corrupt to most corrupt. This was the list in 2008. In 2009 New Zealand came first in the list.

I have bolded the countries that are significantly ‘islamic’.

Judging by the predominance of bolded countries in the bottom part of the list, this must demonstrate that islam causes corruption. Would you agree?

Stuart

This has to do with politics not religion.

The organization defines corruption as “the abuse of public office for private gain”.

This is not Islamic at all

January 9, 2010 at 5:37 pm#169413

Participant

Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 09 2010,22:09)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:10)

There is absolutuely nothing worse than Youth Suicides.

In my opinion there is something much worse than youth suicides.
That is when the delusioned suicidal youth insists on taking hundreds of innocent lives along with his own in the name of his god.

Tim

Killing oneself from absolute despair, depression and resignation from life, in part because the adults around you don't believe in anything and in essense tells you that life has no inherent purpose is really horrible

So what do the youth do in NZ they get addicted to METH and they live for it

Quote

'P', is firmly established as New Zealand's worst drug problem, with sales of up to $1.5 billion a year.http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10572667&ref=rss

America has many drug problems too and I will tell you that most either don't believe in anything or are having a hard time with religion and the reason is people don't talk to their children about God like they use to.

Even parents themselves may go to church, temple or Mosque and let their children stay home if they want but when the kid turns up atheist or disobedient the parents will say they don't know how that happened.

January 9, 2010 at 5:38 pm#169414

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ Jan. 09 2010,22:25)

Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 09 2010,22:09)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:10)

There is absolutuely nothing worse than Youth Suicides.

In my opinion there is something much worse than youth suicides.
That is when the delusioned suicidal youth insists on taking hundreds of innocent lives along with his own in the name of his god.

Tim

Thats true TimothyV1, but the state of sadness and grief of the one suicidal youth IMO would be for them much harder than the one delusional youth who takes alot of innocent people with him.

One is personally lost and despairing and has been let down by society. And is alone.
The other thinks he is doing a great thing for his beliefs, and has been falsley taught.

That was a really good point, Karmarie

January 9, 2010 at 5:42 pm#169416

Participant

Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 10 2010,03:25)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2010,22:28)

NZ has the highest suicide rate in the world

Source? Every site I found did not even have them in the top 10.

Here is one: http://www.aneki.com/suicide.html

Quote

Atheism is killing more youth than any other thought or philosophy

No one thinks suicide bombings are legitimate expressions of faith, Suicide is forbidden in the Quran and Islam.

A Martyr is not someone who kills themselves it is someone who is killed defending the lives and ideals of others. A Martyr can be a soldier or a peaceful protestor

January 9, 2010 at 6:48 pm#169424

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,11:42)

No one thinks suicide bombings are legitimate expressions of faith, Suicide is forbidden in the Quran and Islam.[/quote]

Then why aren't more Muslims taking control of their religion and fighting against those who would deface your religion in the name of such insanity?

A Martyr is not someone who kills themselves it is someone who is killed defending the lives and ideals of others. A Martyr can be a soldier or a peaceful protestor

What does this have to do with the number of people killed by others over religious differences? I did not ask what a martyr was.

No, I simply wanted to see if the number of people killed over religious differences in Islamic countries was greater or less than those who commit suicide in predominantly secular countries.

January 9, 2010 at 6:55 pm#169425

Participant

Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 10 2010,05:48)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,11:42)

No one thinks suicide bombings are legitimate expressions of faith, Suicide is forbidden in the Quran and Islam.

Then why aren't more Muslims taking control of their religion and fighting against those who would deface your religion in the name of such insanity?

Quote

A Martyr is not someone who kills themselves it is someone who is killed defending the lives and ideals of others. A Martyr can be a soldier or a peaceful protestor

What does this have to do with the number of people killed by others over religious differences? I did not ask what a martyr was.

No, I simply wanted to see if the number of people killed over religious differences in Islamic countries was greater or less than those who commit suicide in predominantly secular countries.

How do you compare suicide with cultural conflicts?

January 9, 2010 at 7:37 pm#169430

TimothyVI

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ Jan. 09 2010,22:25)

Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 09 2010,22:09)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,15:10)

There is absolutuely nothing worse than Youth Suicides.

In my opinion there is something much worse than youth suicides.
That is when the delusioned suicidal youth insists on taking hundreds of innocent lives along with his own in the name of his god.

Tim

Thats true TimothyV1, but the state of sadness and grief of the one suicidal youth IMO would be for them much harder than the one delusional youth who takes alot of innocent people with him.

One is personally lost and despairing and has been let down by society. And is alone.
The other thinks he is doing a great thing for his beliefs, and has been falsley taught.

Hi Karmarie, you said “Thats true TimothyV1, but the state of sadness and grief of the one suicidal youth IMO would be for them much harder than the one delusional youth who takes alot of innocent people with him.”

I agree with that wholeheartedly.
My statement however in reply to BD saying that there is nothing worse than youth suicide, was that in my opinion it is much worse for a youth, or any person committing suicide, to take the lives of innocent people at the same time he takes his own.

I am sorry but in spite of the personal grief of a person willing to take his own life, it is ultimately still worse to take other lives at the same time. Any sane person can't possibly believe otherwise.

I recently watched a news account of a man who killed his wife and children and then shot himself.

No matter how much dispair this man may have been in, everyone would have been better off if he had just used the first bullet on himself.

Of course suicide for reasons of grief is tragic, but I still maintain that taking the lives of innocent people while extinguishing your own is more reprehensible.

Tim

January 9, 2010 at 8:45 pm#169431

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,12:55)

How do you compare suicide with cultural conflicts?

What? First you say an atheistic adult population is not helping those who look to suicide, and then you act as if it does not compare to Islamic conflicts. You assert an atheistic culture is failing New Zealanders but don't see the the failing in Islamic culture.

January 9, 2010 at 10:11 pm#169441

Participant

Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 10 2010,07:45)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,12:55)

How do you compare suicide with cultural conflicts?

The failings are not Islamic they are cultural and tribal.

January 10, 2010 at 1:11 am#169459

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2010,16:11)

The failings are not Islamic they are cultural and tribal.

Which, by some strange coincidence, happen to be cultures and tribes consisting predominantly of practitioners of Islam. Funny how that works.

January 10, 2010 at 1:34 am#169464

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 10 2010,04:26)

This has to do with politics not religion.

The organization defines corruption as “the abuse of public office for private gain”.

This is not Islamic at all

So you are saying that there is a correlation, but not necessarily a causal relationship.

Thank you.

Stuart

January 10, 2010 at 1:38 am#169465

karmarie

Participant

ok lets just drop the whole subject its getting really depressing here.

January 10, 2010 at 2:09 am#169468

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ Jan. 10 2010,12:38)

ok lets just drop the whole subject its getting really depressing here.

certainly off topic, I will comply

January 10, 2010 at 2:17 am#169470