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Quote (Tiffany @ Dec. 31 2008,14:15) 942767 Did not Jesus ransom Adam, and lifted the death curse from all of us?
Is not Adam from the O.T?
Are not all from the O.T. in their grave? so were does this all who have died, all shall live again, come in?Georg
Hi Georg:Jesus is the propitiation for the sins for all that have obeyed God in the OT, and all that are reconciled to God through his sacrifice in the NT. The curse of death is lifted for these. They will have eternal life.
All of those who died in Faith in the OT will live again. They are a part of the dead in Christ.
But those who died in their sins in the OT will be raised again. The wages of sin is death. Those who died in their sins under the law have been judged by the law, and sin is not imputed where there is no law, nevertheless, death is the result of sin and is the consequence for the gentile nations who were not under the law in the OT.
Those in the NT who have died in their sins will be raised again in the second resurrection to be judged. If you will read John 5:24and the verses following, you will see that Jesus is talking about raising those who rejected his word to be judged, and not all of those who are in the grave from the beginning of the world.
Marty
Marty
Adam did not obey God. Did not Jesus say, the sick need a doctor. Where do you read Jesus came to reconcile only those who obeyed God?
How many in the OT have died in faith, faith in what, because they never knew the “who”, Jesus.
Adam did not brake a law, and Jesus came to ransom him; did he ransom him alone?Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Yes, this is what Jesus said, and this is what Paul ask.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
God is not a respecter of person, he gives everyone the same chance.
Georg
Quote (Tiffany @ Jan. 01 2009,10:37) Marty Adam did not obey God. Did not Jesus say, the sick need a doctor. Where do you read Jesus came to reconcile only those who obeyed God?
How many in the OT have died in faith, faith in what, because they never knew the “who”, Jesus.
Adam did not brake a law, and Jesus came to ransom him; did he ransom him alone?Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Yes, this is what Jesus said, and this is what Paul ask.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
God is not a respecter of person, he gives everyone the same chance.
Georg
Hi Georg:Everyone has had an opportunity to repent and obey God during their lifetime here on earth.
But since we in the NT who have heard the gospel have the greater revelation of God's plan for the salvation of mankind, the severity of judgment will be greater for those who hear and reject the gospel.
I never said that Jesus came to reconcile only those who obeyed God. All of us were sinners at one time or another, and so the sick, all of us, need the physician, but God gives us a choice as to whether or not we will repent and serve Him. I said that Jesus is the proptiation for the sins of those in the OT who repented and obeyed God and for those who hear the gospel and repent and are reconciled to God through the Lord Jesus.
In the OT, Adam was in direct communication with God, the people who lived surely heard of his experience, Abel offered a more excellent offering to God than Cain, for example. Enoch repented and walked with God 360 years. Noah preached to the people about the impending flood for 150 years. People had an opportunity to repent and be spared the judgment of the flood. Only Noah and his family were spared by the Ark. Jesus likens those in the present Era who hear and reject the gospel and go on living in their sins to the era of Noah before the flood. People did not believe Noah, and people are not believing the gospel now.
After the flood, people heard about the judgment of God, and could have repented. They may have heard about Abraham and his experience, and they heard about the nation of Israel being delivered out of Egypt by God through Moses, and about the judgement on Pharoah and his army and the judgments against the idolators in the land promised to Abraham and his seed. Rahab the harlot repented and was saved.
And so, can you see that although they may have not heard about Jesus or had the gospel preached to them in their time as we have it today, they had the opportunity through what they had and heard to repent and turn to God to obey Him.
I hope that this helps you to understand.
Marty
Quote (Tiffany @ Jan. 01 2009,11:19) No Marty, I can't see that;
since Jesus is the only name by which we can be saved.Georg
Well Georg:I have given you my undestanding of this to the best of my ability.
No one can be saved without the blood of Jesus to wash away their sins. The meaning of name “Jesus” is “YHWH is salvation”. No one can come to the Father but by him.
Those who died in faith will surely see him when they are resurrected from the dead when the Lord comes for the church. They are part of the body of Christ. The dead in Christ.
Quote (Tiffany @ Jan. 01 2009,11:19) No Marty, I can't see that;
since Jesus is the only name by which we can be saved.Georg
Hi Georg,
So who does the WE include?Would you condemn those who lived before Jesus? God is less harsh.
Jesus did not lift the curse of sin and death from all men.
The gospel of God offers the choice of redemption in the blood of the lamb to men from the time of John the baptist.
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