Judgements

[NickHassan]

GB,
Yes no man can come unless drawn by God.
Planting of the seed in good soil produces useful growth.
Then allowing the rain to soak in and seeking abundant graces.

The fruit is the words of Christ's Spirit leading you and enlivening your teaching.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……….absolutely how about you, do you (Understand) Christ (WORDs) or only Parrot them. For the Kingdom of GOD is like a man who Planted seed in his field and went to bed and rose the next day and continued, soon the blade appeared and the head of grain and it grow, but the man (did not Know HOW) for the earth (heart) brings forth of it self. The seed is the WORD of GOD, Not the word of FEAR, WE are (CREATED) unto good works and we don't Know How GOD does it< His words automatically produce Fruit in our hearts and minds, if you have the spirit of God in you, it's a work of GOD not us.

peace………………gene

[NickHassan]

GB,
Automatic?
Some seed fell among weeds and on the path and some flourished for a time.

Cooperation by man every step of the way in fear and trembling according to Paul.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick…….You said, Automatic?….> Mar 4:26…> So is the kingdom of GOD, as if a man should cast seed into the ground; ver 27 ..And should sleep, and rise night and day, and the seed should spring and grow up, He knoweth (NOT HOW). Ver 28… For the earth (heart) bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear. Nick tell me this where did the man (BY His “free Choices) cause it to grow? The fruit of the spirit is of, or from, the Spirit (NOT) from or of Man . It is a work that (ONLY) GOD can perform. Least there be any boasting. Give GOD the FATHER the CREDIT for the WORK He does (Jesus the one you say is your Master did) You need to do the same. imo

peace…………….gene

[NickHassan]

GB,
First the seed must be accepted into the soil before God can do that work within.
Nothing automatic about that especially with the lack of clearing of the thorns and weeds[repentance]

[942767]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2008,07:59)

942767……..Repentence to given by God Thats the OLD COVENANT, Which we are (NOT) under < "for you brethren have (NOT) come unto that mountain to (FEAR) as THEY did. So why did they come to that mountain?. it was to FEAR so fear would control them and they would not sin. This is the SAME religion YOU and NICK teach. A religion of FEAR. Let me give you a good example of Human Nature with out GOD'S Spirit, Its like a cioled spring and when it has no pressur applied to it it will expand all the way , The carnl mind is exactly like that the Lust in it will cause it to increase in evil as the coild spring will if not regulated, So God Put pressure on Human Nature He turned His loving commamdments  into Law (forced compliance) and this forced compliance is like putting weight on top of the sprung and pushes it down , Fear works the Same way it cause obedience. But remove the Weight and the Spring goes right back to full expansion, so does the CARNAL MIND. It needs Pressure ie, FEAR. But the Spiritual Lead Mind does not , it is like some one (GOD) simple removes the force causing it to expand, No fear need to control it Just a new Heart that doesn't Have the Lust in it Just true Love of GOD shed around in it. So no need of FEAR, This why I hod in question you conversion , Because you both seem to always revert back to a fear religion. Nick and 942767, Let move on to perfection, and we know it says (NOTHING) is PERFECTED IN FEAR. God bless both of you in love and peace………………………..gene

Hi Gene:

If one is in a right relationship with Him, there is not cause for fear, but I tell you the truth, if you or anyone has rejected his free gift of salvation and or is not obeying His commandments at His coming for the church, I believe that maybe there is ample reason to fear.

Quote

1Pe 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Quote

Hbr 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Hbr 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Hbr 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. Hbr 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Quote

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand

Quote

Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, [every stone] about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Quote

1) a weight or worth of a talent a) a talent of silver weighed about 100 pounds (45 kg) b) a talent of gold, 200 pounds (91 kg)

Wow! Where will anyone be if a 100 pound hailstone were to hit them? What do you think Gene? Should someone who is not in right standing with the Lord at his coming for the church fear or not?

I don't want anything like this to happen to them and so, I am telling you and them the truth.

God Bless

[942767]

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 08 2008,08:09)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 07 2008,11:07) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 07 2008,16:03) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 06 2008,20:54) Hi Gene: Here are some verses for your consideraton: Quote Mar 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. God Bless Yes, the fire is not quenched UNTIL CHANGE IS CREATED. So you don't believe in an ALMIGHTY God, who's Will is what is done? 2 Peter3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Hi Jodi: The scripture states that worm does not die niether is the fire quenched. The worm will eat until there is not more there to eat up, and God will not quench the fire it will burn until it burns everything up. I believe what the scripture states that God is not willing that any man should perish, but that all come to repentance, but there is God's will and then there is man's will.  If man does not want to repent, and be saved, God will not force himself on him or anyone.  He will cause circumstances that may cause a man to make the right decision, but no, He will not force His will on anyone. God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, and that is why the gospel is to every creature. God Bless Hello 942767, It's not God's force, but through His planning and intelligence that God will draw every man into salvation. Why are you and Nick so quick to write people off? I find it VERY unfortunate that you cannot see the true powers and intelligence of YHWH and His capabilities over man, that you find God's light cannot shine over every dark place.   Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” If you read this scripture and the others like it with the given knowledge that God is not willing that any perish, then what I believe we are to understand from it is that it is not people themselves that are cast int the lake of fire, but the people that they WERE are gone forever. There are no more liars, thieves, murderers, sexually immoral people, because all sinful flesh has been burned away, removed and consumed. The only people who make it into the kingdom are righteous people, and God committed all to sin so He would have mercy on all, meaning no matter what sins you committed or how many, no matter how much you loved darkness He would have mercy on all, He would work His Spirit in all to change all.   Seems strait forward to me -God desires all men to be saved -God is not willing that any should perish -God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. -No liars, thieves, murderers..etc, have a place in God's kingdom Therefore God has to destroy the sinful flesh, but not the person. He has to destroy the TYPE of people they are, through shining His light on their darkness. Do you really believe 942767, that a man's darkness is more powerful then the LIGHT of YHWH? You really believe that our Heavenly Father IS NOT capable of refining His own created creature that He formed from dirt?

Hi Jodi:

It is through the gospel that God draws men unto Himself.  I am not doubting God's capabilities.  He calls a men into a relationship with Him.  It is a choice.  If those who have heard the gospel, choose not to be saved.  It is not because God has not made a way to escape destruction.  It was their decision, and not a very wise one.  No one has to be destroyed.  No, it is not God's will that any man should perish, but that all may come to repentance that is why the truth must be preached including the consequences for rejecting God's free gift of salavation.

And you and Gene and others who are preaching that all men will ultimately going to be saved may be encouraging some to continue in their sins rather than to come to God with a repentant heart through the provision that God has made for their salvation.  This is a serious thing, if men are destroyed, because you did not tell them the truth.  I love them, and you and so, I am telling you the truth while there is still time to repent.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Like Ez3
17Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.

18When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

19Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

[meerkat]

94  

You make the assumption that when someone says that all will be saved ultimately after wrath and punishment for rebellion – that they are saying that people can continue to sin or that sin is acceptable – but that is not what anyone is saying and is contrary to scripture.

The wages of sin is death. Sin is the transgression of the Law. Which law?   The second death is not physical – it is a death to the works of Satan

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Rom 5:20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
Rom 6:6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

The whole gospel needs to be preached not just wrath and not just love and no consequences.

There is sin, death, consequences  …………    and  love, life and resurrection.

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Mt 10
28`And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

The second death?

[Jodi]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 07 2008,17:43)

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 08 2008,08:09) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 07 2008,11:07) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 07 2008,16:03) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 06 2008,20:54) Hi Gene: Here are some verses for your consideraton: Quote Mar 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. God Bless Yes, the fire is not quenched UNTIL CHANGE IS CREATED. So you don't believe in an ALMIGHTY God, who's Will is what is done? 2 Peter3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Hi Jodi: The scripture states that worm does not die niether is the fire quenched. The worm will eat until there is not more there to eat up, and God will not quench the fire it will burn until it burns everything up. I believe what the scripture states that God is not willing that any man should perish, but that all come to repentance, but there is God's will and then there is man's will. If man does not want to repent, and be saved, God will not force himself on him or anyone. He will cause circumstances that may cause a man to make the right decision, but no, He will not force His will on anyone. God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, and that is why the gospel is to every creature. God Bless Hello 942767, It's not God's force, but through His planning and intelligence that God will draw every man into salvation. Why are you and Nick so quick to write people off? I find it VERY unfortunate that you cannot see the true powers and intelligence of YHWH and His capabilities over man, that you find God's light cannot shine over every dark place. Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” If you read this scripture and the others like it with the given knowledge that God is not willing that any perish, then what I believe we are to understand from it is that it is not people themselves that are cast int the lake of fire, but the people that they WERE are gone forever. There are no more liars, thieves, murderers, sexually immoral people, because all sinful flesh has been burned away, removed and consumed. The only people who make it into the kingdom are righteous people, and God committed all to sin so He would have mercy on all, meaning no matter what sins you committed or how many, no matter how much you loved darkness He would have mercy on all, He would work His Spirit in all to change all. Seems strait forward to me -God desires all men to be saved -God is not willing that any should perish -God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. -No liars, thieves, murderers..etc, have a place in God's kingdom Therefore God has to destroy the sinful flesh, but not the person. He has to destroy the TYPE of people they are, through shining His light on their darkness. Do you really believe 942767, that a man's darkness is more powerful then the LIGHT of YHWH? You really believe that our Heavenly Father IS NOT capable of refining His own created creature that He formed from dirt? Hi Jodi: It is through the gospel that God draws men unto Himself. I am not doubting God's capabilities. He calls a men into a relationship with Him. It is a choice. If those who have heard the gospel, choose not to be saved. It is not because God has not made a way to escape destruction. It was their decision, and not a very wise one. No one has to be destroyed. No, it is not God's will that any man should perish, but that all may come to repentance that is why the truth must be preached including the consequences for rejecting God's free gift of salavation. And you and Gene and others who are preaching that all men will ultimately going to be saved may be encouraging some to continue in their sins rather than to come to God with a repentant heart through the provision that God has made for their salvation. This is a serious thing, if men are destroyed, because you did not tell them the truth. I love them, and you and so, I am telling you the truth while there is still time to repent. God Bless

You've got to be kidding me with this. I find your post appalling.

Especially this that you said, “This is a serious thing, if men are destroyed, because you did not tell them the truth.”

Where have Gene or I ever said anything about it being o.k. for anyone to continue in sin.

So let me get this strait, you believe that it is up to other men to save souls, that it is not God's work? Your accusing me of being the cause of people's damnation?

You said,” that it is through the gospel that God draws men unto Himself.”

God draws people to read the bible and the bible helps them in their instruction. The Gospel is a tool God uses for a certain group of people during a specific time period.

Just think about all the people who died never hearing the message, or who didn't even know how to read.

942767 you need to take a good look around you as well as look back at history, doesn't your god look like a failure if His greatest means of bringing men to salvation is strictly the Gospel?

Your god is pathetic, and it is you
r Christian god that currently turns people away from Christianity.

It does not look like He is longsuffering but EXTREMELY LAZY.

Let's think for a moment about a child not raised with a Christian up bringing, he is older now and has heard about Christians and the bible, he has been told by some friends that Jesus died for his sins.

Is that your idea of God's means of giving a fair chance to be saved?

John 4:40 So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of His own word. 42 Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.”

Some people will have to meet Christ for themselves in order to believe, and guess what, I don't blame them for that. Why is that, because of the way they depict God, as merciless creep wanting to eternally torment people.

942767, the majority of people out there who have and are accepting Christ are not truly accepting him, they are accepting a trinitarian antichrist, who is a creep that wants to punish people for an eternity.

To say that God is giving everyone a fair chance through a poorly translated bible where no original scripts exist, is foolishness.

I have been doing religious services at a juvenile detention center, where according to you I have been leading people into damnation, but the truth is on the contrary. The feedback from the children themselves as well as what they have told a detention worker, is that what I say makes so much more sense to them then what they have heard or from what they have been taught. What they say is that the God of which I speak of IS truly a God of love, and patience, that He is a God they can actually believe in and want to follow.

It is hard for me even to get people to talk about God these days because they ALL DESPISE the Christian god, and like I said, I don't blame them because what they have heard or have been previously taught is a disgrace to YHWH.

[meerkat]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 08 2008,14:00)

Hi MK, Mt 10 28`And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna. The second death?

1Cr 15:42So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Cr 15:45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
1Cr 15:46Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Cr 15:47The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.
1Cr 15:48As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.
1Cr 15:49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Cr 15:50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: – heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: – ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

Actually yes – the second death

There is one lump,,,  one vessel of honour and one of dishonour
Sown in dishonour   …… raised in glory

All have a body of dishonoour and all will have a body of glory – the resurrection of the dead is about being raised by the Spirit to LIFE

Scripture says that God will judge the living and the dead – believing in Christ will not get you away from judgement which is upon DEEDS but our being raised/born again by the Spirit has nothing to do with our deeds it is the gift of God

[942767]

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 08 2008,14:16)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 07 2008,17:43) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 08 2008,08:09) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 07 2008,11:07) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 07 2008,16:03) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 06 2008,20:54) Hi Gene: Here are some verses for your consideraton: Quote Mar 9:42 And whosoever shall offend one of [these] little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. God Bless Yes, the fire is not quenched UNTIL CHANGE IS CREATED. So you don't believe in an ALMIGHTY God, who's Will is what is done? 2 Peter3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Hi Jodi: The scripture states that worm does not die niether is the fire quenched. The worm will eat until there is not more there to eat up, and God will not quench the fire it will burn until it burns everything up. I believe what the scripture states that God is not willing that any man should perish, but that all come to repentance, but there is God's will and then there is man's will.  If man does not want to repent, and be saved, God will not force himself on him or anyone.  He will cause circumstances that may cause a man to make the right decision, but no, He will not force His will on anyone. God desires that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, and that is why the gospel is to every creature. God Bless Hello 942767, It's not God's force, but through His planning and intelligence that God will draw every man into salvation. Why are you and Nick so quick to write people off? I find it VERY unfortunate that you cannot see the true powers and intelligence of YHWH and His capabilities over man, that you find God's light cannot shine over every dark place.   Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” If you read this scripture and the others like it with the given knowledge that God is not willing that any perish, then what I believe we are to understand from it is that it is not people themselves that are cast int the lake of fire, but the people that they WERE are gone forever. There are no more liars, thieves, murderers, sexually immoral people, because all sinful flesh has been burned away, removed and consumed. The only people who make it into the kingdom are righteous people, and God committed all to sin so He would have mercy on all, meaning no matter what sins you committed or how many, no matter how much you loved darkness He would have mercy on all, He would work His Spirit in all to change all.   Seems strait forward to me -God desires all men to be saved -God is not willing that any should perish -God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. -No liars, thieves, murderers..etc, have a place in God's kingdom Therefore God has to destroy the sinful flesh, but not the person. He has to destroy the TYPE of people they are, through shining His light on their darkness. Do you really believe 942767, that a man's darkness is more powerful then the LIGHT of YHWH? You really believe that our Heavenly Father IS NOT capable of refining His own created creature that He formed from dirt? Hi Jodi: It is through the gospel that God draws men unto Himself.  I am not doubting God's capabilities.  He calls a men into a relationship with Him.  It is a choice.  If those who have heard the gospel, choose not to be saved.  It is not because God has not made a way to escape destruction.  It was their decision, and not a very wise one.  No one has to be destroyed.  No, it is not God's will that any man should perish, but that all may come to repentance that is why the truth must be preached including the consequences for rejecting God's free gift of salavation. And you and Gene and others who are preaching that all men will ultimately going to be saved may be encouraging some to continue in their sins rather than to come to God with a repentant heart through the provision that God has made for their salvation.  This is a serious thing, if men are destroyed, because you did not tell them the truth.  I love them, and you and so, I am telling you the truth while there is still time to repent. God Bless You've got to be kidding me with this. I find your post appalling. Especially this that you said, “This is a serious thing, if men are destroyed, because you did not tell them the truth.” Where have Gene or I ever said anything about it being o.k. for anyone to continue in sin. So let me get this strait, you believe that it is up to other men to save souls, that it is not God's work? Your accusing me of being the cause of people's damnation? You said,” that it is through the gospel that God draws men unto Himself.” God draws people to read the bible and the bible helps them in their instruction. The Gospel is a tool God uses for a certain group of people during a specific time period. Just think about all the people who died never hearing the message, or who didn't even know how to read. 942767 you need to take a good look around you as well as look back at history, doesn't your god look like a failure if His greatest means of bringing men to salvation is strictly the Gospel? Your god is pathetic, and it is your Christian god that currently turns people away from Christianity. It does not look like He is longsuffering but EXTREMELY LAZY. Let's think for a moment about a child not raised with a Christian up bringing, he is older now and has heard about Christians and the bible, he has been told by some friends that Jesus died for his sins. Is that your idea of God's means of giving a fair chance to be saved? John 4:40 So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of His own word.  42 Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.” Some people will have to meet Christ for themselves in order to believe, and guess what, I don't blame them for that. Why is that, because of the way they depict God, as merciless creep wanting to eternally torment people. 942767, the majority of people out there who have and are accepting Christ are not truly accepting him, they are accepting a trinitarian antichrist, who is a creep that wants to punish people for an eternity. To say that God is giving everyone a fair chance through a poorly translated bible where no original scripts exist, is foolishness. I have been doing religious services at a juvenile detention center, where according to you I have been leading people into damnation, but the truth is on the contrary. The feedback from the children themselves as well as what they have told a detention worker, is that what I say makes so much more sense to them then what they have heard or from what they have been taught. What they say is that the God of which I speak of IS truly a God of love, and patience, that He is a God they can actually believe in and want to follow.   It is hard for me even to get people to talk about God these days because they ALL DESPISE the Christian god, and like I said, I don't blame them because what they have heard or have been previously taught is a disgrace to YHWH.

Hi Jodi:

No my God and Father is not a failure, and I am going to continue to preach the truth, and I urge you and Gene and others who preach that all men will eventually be saved to repent and preach the truth so that men will repent and be saved through the gospel. God has not said that all men will be saved. All men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and the gospel is preached to them so that God can have mercy on whomever chooses to be reconciled to Him through the Lord Jesus. HE IS THE PROPITIATION FOR THE SINS OF ALL MANKIND, AND THE ONLY WAY THAT MAN CAN COME TO GOD IS THROUGH HIM.

Quote

Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. Rev 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand. Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses [were] sealed twelve thousand. Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand. Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand. Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

[meerkat]

94,

You are putting words into Gene's and Jodi's mouth that they have not said.

Jesus is the only way to salvation. If Jesus did not die and rise again – nobody could.

Jesus was raised and all will be made alive IN CHRIST – each in their own order.

The full gospel needs to be preached not half – First is the natural and corruptible, after judgement and repentance is spiritual

[942767]

Hi Jodi:

Apparently, some thought that the message of the two witnesses was appalling:

Quote

Rev 11:3 And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

[GeneBalthrop]

942767…..first i must say I totally disagree with you . No man (can COME) unto Christ unless the Father draw( Greek DRAG Him) Jesus said that by the way, and I think He knew more then yo about How we are saved. Your teaching of salvation by your own So-called “FREE Will” philosophy is against scripture it has been taught for centuries by the apostate Churches, in order to get control of Peoples minds through the operation of FEAR. Through picturing a dreadful evil God who cant wait to throw His CREATION in to an ever burning literal Fire. How you portray as a Hypocrite ( sending His Son to tell us to forgive each other even if your brother sins against you 490 times in One DAY), and to do good to them who spitefully use us, and to love our enemy's, So the God you preach tells every one else to do it but He doesn't do it. Isn't this the sign of a Hypocrite.

And Jesus our example then did not really said (father forgive them, they know not what they do) did He. It was all a show and God really isn't like that right , He's the way you and the apostate Churches describe Him a GOD full of wrath can't wait to fry people irrespective if they understood or not , He's just to weak or doesn't care if they burn up in a literal Hell fire. Well then I would classify this GOD of YOURS as a FAILURE ( his own arm REALLY can't bring salvation) A Hateful GOD who despises His own CREATION. You are all confused about how salvation works and who does it brother. (SALVATION IS A CREATION) And there is (ONLY ONE) CREATOR, and its (NOT MAN)> With all the many Scriptures that have been quoted here has (ANY) stuck. Come out of that false teaching and seek a God of love and mercy who (NOT) Willing (ANY) parish, and who does (all things after the council of HIS OWN WILL)

I hope you will consider this………………..gene

[942767]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2008,15:15)

942767…..first i must say I totally disagree with you . No man (can COME) unto Christ unless the Father draw( Greek DRAG Him)  Jesus said that by the way, and I think He knew more then yo about How we are saved. Your teaching of salvation by your own So-called “FREE Will” philosophy  is against scripture it has been taught for centuries by the apostate Churches, in order to get control of Peoples minds through the operation of FEAR. Through picturing a dreadful evil God who cant wait to throw His CREATION in to an ever burning literal Fire. How you portray as a Hypocrite ( sending His Son to tell us to forgive each other even if your brother sins against you 490 times in One DAY), and to do good to them who spitefully use us, and to love our enemy's, So the God you preach tells every one else to do it but He doesn't do it. Isn't this the sign of a Hypocrite. And Jesus our example then did not really said (father forgive them, they know not what they do) did He. It was all a show and God really isn't like that right , He's the way you and the apostate Churches describe Him a GOD full of wrath can't wait to fry people irrespective if they understood or not , He's just to weak or doesn't care if they burn up in a literal Hell fire.  Well then I would classify this GOD of YOURS as a FAILURE ( his own arm REALLY can't bring salvation) A Hateful GOD who despises His own CREATION.  You are all confused about how salvation works and who does it brother.  (SALVATION IS A CREATION) And there is (ONLY ONE) CREATOR, and its (NOT MAN)> With all the many Scriptures that have been quoted here has (ANY) stuck. Come out of that false teaching and seek a God of love and mercy who (NOT) Willing (ANY) parish, and who does (all things after the council of HIS OWN WILL) I hope you will consider this………………..gene

Hi Gene:

God's purpose is that man come to repentance and be saved. Yes, Jesus said, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”, but that is when they repent, and yes, he said that we should forgive not 7 but 7 X70 meaning that we are to forgive someone who has offended us, but that is also when they repent.

Quote

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Some of those who crucified Jesus after they learned what they had done repented. These are an example of those who Jesus asked the Father to forgive them for they did not know what they had done, and also, you and me because he died for us while we were yet sinners.

Quote

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. Act 2:29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Act 2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do? Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Yes, Gene one of us is definitely not preaching the truth, and I will let God be the judge.

God Bless

[942767]

Hi meerkat:

You say:

Quote

You are putting words into Gene's and Jodi's mouth that they have not said

How so?

[Jodi]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 07 2008,19:31)

Hi Jodi: No my God and Father is not a failure, and I am going to continue to preach the truth, and I urge you and Gene and others who preach that all men will eventually be saved to repent and preach the truth so that men will repent and be saved through the gospel. God has not said that all men will be saved. All men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and the gospel is preached to them so that God can have mercy on whomever chooses to be reconciled to Him through the Lord Jesus. HE IS THE PROPITIATION FOR THE SINS OF ALL MANKIND, AND THE ONLY WAY THAT MAN CAN COME TO GOD IS THROUGH HIM.

Yes, Jesus is our example and He died in order that we could be resurrected from the dead.

Clearly however, throughout time many people have never heard of him, and those who have and didn't give him much thought are ALL those who will have an opportunity to hear from Jesus in person.

Many more believed because they spoke with Christ personally, face to face. Just think how many more people are going to believe during the second resurrection when they not only talk with Jesus but see God's work through him in the Glorious Kingdom.

Even at that time there will be some who deny him, and these will have to go into punishment in order to be changed.

What is the state of man's darkness? Many people who are dark and evil are that way because of bad genes and a more then horrifying childhood. Evil is a pattern that worsens over time without the intervention of God. The world today does not know God, God is letting man rule and carry evil as far as it may go. When Jesus returns however, this is when healing begins, and at the second resurrection those that died in the utmost state of evil, will start to have their evilness chipped away from them through both healing and discipline. Most really evil people have lived horrible lives since their childhood, they know no trust in anyone or anything. God has to work harder to gain their trust and rebuild their spirit because they are truly broken people.

Your idea 942767 of God being longsuffering towards man, not willing that any should perish but all come into repentence, is for YHWH to not take into consideration people's different lives and experiences, treat everyone like they are exactly the same?

Your idea of fairness, consideration and love towards fellow man I find disturbing. It is like asking a two year old to accept Jesus and because they don't understand, you kill them, or speaking the gospel to a deaf person and killing them simply because they couldn't hear you.

[Shania]

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 08 2008,08:03)

Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Mar 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [/quote] God Bless[/quote] Yes, the fire is not quenched UNTIL CHANGE IS CREATED.

Hmm… Don't you see that you have to add to scripture in order to explain your doctrine?

Scripture is clear and the gospel is simple. You don't need to add anything to it.

[Author]

Posts