Joseph, Jesus’ father? Crazy people would believe this!

[Jodi]

Hi Ed J,

YOU: This is not relatively short nor is it very simple instead you roam all over the place like I say…

ME: Oops, you have taken what I said from one post that was meant specifically for that particular post, and applied it to another post.

A specific post I said was “relatively short and clear”, but you couldn’t even respond to it. So I gave you that specific post again for you to answer. 

I began today by addressing your comment as to my “rant speeches”, where I wanted to show ALL how my words you call a rant speech are actually from direct scripture. My words were indeed backed up by many passages. I never once in that post to you claimed that my initial post was relatively short and that I would be giving that same short post back to you. So try and keep things straight!

I’m sorry that a post of many passages makes it appear to you that “I am all over the place”, we are just on totally different plains obviously, because as for me, God’s word most beautifully CONNECTS FROM ALL OVER making things very clear to me, and I like to speak to those amazing connections that really outline the truth of God’s word. 

[Proclaimer]

Hi All,

The sex of a baby is determined by its chromosome makeup AT CONCEPTION, and it is the male sperm that determines the sex. At conception if the male sperm provides an X chromosome with the mother’s X chromosome the fertilized egg is a girl XX. If the male sperm provides a Y chromosome the fertilized egg is a boy XY.

An Adam/Human Being (which the coming Messiah was said to be) or an Anthropos/Human Being (Which Jesus was said to be) has 46 chromosomes.

Unless you are the first Adam or you are Eve, you came into existence as a human being through the combination of just two cells that each contain 23 chromosomes, the human female gamete and the human male gamete. A human female egg (gamete) needs to be fertilized by just ONE CELL a human male gamete.

Okay, if the Holy Spirit didn’t come upon Mary and Joseph is the father of the child, then why did Joseph question the Mary being pregnant situation with him considering putting her away. And the baby had a 50% chance of being female or thereabouts. So would that baby be the daughter of God if it was female? And could she have died for the sins of humanity. And wouldn’t she be a queen of Heaven?

I think we can agree that as the scripture says, the Holy Spirit came upon Mary. I don’t have the specifics, but we should believe the text if indeed we are Believers. If you don’t believe, then fine. You wouldn’t be a believer. That is something you can choose using your free will.

[Jodi]

Hi Ed J,

ME: Jesus is called a son OF a HUMAN many times over.
He’s not a half-breed or some one of a king being,
he IS EXACTLY what scripture says that he is A HUMAN BEING…

YOU: Are you changing even more words now to fit your narrative?

ME: You have answered NO, saying that I would not be a liar from changing the word “man” to “human being” from a passage of the OT that uses the word Adam and that same passage quoted by Jesus in the NT using the word Anthropos. 

So I am just really confused now regarding your previous post I added above.

The Messiah is said to be the Son of Adam in the OT and the Son of Anthropos in the NT, but you have a problem with me saying that Jesus is the Son of a Human Being?

 

[Proclaimer]

Proclaimer…… the verse you are quoting is a highly contested one,  years ago I studied it in detail, from different scholars, and the most sound one I believe said, it should be read as saying ,  when Jesus was on this earth he had the nature ( form) of God , but did not try to make himself equal with God by robbing God of his Glory. But instead took on the nature of a servant.

Now ask yourself how could Jesus ever make himself equal with God ,

Equal in nature. Both have divine nature. Equal in that sense. Read it again.

Not equal as persons.

Just like I am equal with the queen of England because we both have human nature, but clearly we are not equal persons with regards to authority and privilege in this world.

You see, he emptied himself of his former assets (if we can call it that) and started life anew as a baby who had to learn how to speak and walk etc.

He is now back in the glory that he had with the Father before the cosmos however. He didn’t lose his former stature for all time obviously. He returned to it and also gained more because he learned obedience and other useful attributes from being placed on Earth and suffering.

This is why he is worthy. It is one thing to inherit a position or be born into it. But it is quite another to also be found worthy of it.

[Proclaimer]

So Gene, from your own words about questioning the interpretation of the verse, it clearly shows that you have rejected the following:

Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death– even death on a cross!

I believe, but you clearly do not.

You even argue with me when I quote this and other scriptures verbatim.

And you will continue to argue.

Pray about this.

It is not me you are arguing against is it? Think about it. This and other reasons is why you lost this debate.

You argue with scripture through me as a proxy.

[Jodi]

Hi Proclaimer,

YOU:Okay, if the Holy Spirit didn’t come upon Mary and Joseph is the father of the child, then why did Joseph question Mary being pregnant. And the baby had a 50% chance of being female or thereabouts. So would that baby be the daughter of God if it was female? And could she have died for the sins of humanity. And wouldn’t she be a queen of Heaven?

ME: Very good explanation of conception etc… I gave a similar post.

The Holy Spirit did come upon Mary, such is direct scripture I have stated numerous times. I have also said, “how else is a VIRGIN able to become pregnant back then without the power of God’s Spirit coming upon her?“.

Was it not by the power of the Holy Spirit that Mary conceived?.. or are we to believe God came down and had sex with Mary? No, definitely not that!! The first one is correct.

As Jesus is said to be a male human being, Mary in order to conceive a male human being needed not just a single cell human male gamete, but one cell that specifically had the Y chromosome to make a son. Easy task for our Almighty God to overshadow Mary and by the power of His Spirit conceive in her this necessary particular one cell.

Matthew tells us this cell had to have come from Joseph, as we are given the generations/ancestry/genealogy/family line/family history/GENESIS of Jesus that goes from Abraham to Christ, where Joseph in this ancestral line comes after Jacob and just before Jesus.

 

[Jodi]

Hi Proclaimer,

Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Now if we don’t agree on who Christ (Anointed) JESUS is from verse 5, then we won’t agree on the “who” in verse 6 is speaking of, nor what the passage is saying to us.

Acts 10: 38: How God Anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Acts 10 as well as other passages, tell us that the WHO is the Anointed Jesus of Nazareth. Upon receiving the Spirit WITHOUT MEASURE he was in the form of God, and being in that form he though it not robbery to think himself as being in the quality and quantity of God for God’s Spirit without measure and the power thereof was upon him. 

Phil 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery (a thing seized) to be equal (in quantity or quality) with God:

[Jodi]

Hi Proclaimer,

I just don’t understand how it seems you do not apply in your thoughts the significance to the anointing of Jesus of Nazareth.

He was anointed and sent TO heal all that were oppressed of the devil, he did so through receiving the Spirit not by measure. He could do nothing of himself.

You don’t equate that as to WHY Jesus would thus be called God’s only begotten Son sent being manifested to destroy the works of the devil?

 

[Ed J]

Hi Jodi,

You are very observant. Yes I’m trying to put my words to your beliefs.
ok great! We have to go very slow to keep you on track with my words.
So Jesus was referring to YeHoVaH as his father from birth then, right?
“Yes” or “No” ?

Hi Ed J,

I can’t answer a question that is unclear to me.
Your question would be better suited I believe if you said,

Because the young Jesus called YHVH his father
we can assume then that he must have been his Father from birth, correct?

Hi Jodi,

Yes that is my question…

“Yes” or “No” ?

[Ed J]

Shouldn’t your question then be, – When Jesus said he was “about my Father’s business” isn’t Jesus by calling God his Father telling us that he pre-existed as God’s Son?

The answer to that question would be a definite NO, the text most certainly teaches no such thing.

Hi Jodi,

That was NOT my question, but you did reworded it in a way you could understand…

Now kindly answer the question I asked

[Ed J]

Hi Ed J,

YOU: This is not relatively short nor is it very simple instead you roam all over the place like I say…

ME: Oops, you have taken what I said from one post that was meant specifically for that particular post, and applied it to another post.

A specific post I said was “relatively short and clear”, but you couldn’t even respond to it. So I gave you that specific post again for you to answer.

I began today by addressing your comment as to my “rant speeches”, where I wanted to show ALL how my words you call a rant speech are actually from direct scripture. My words were indeed backed up by many passages. I never once in that post to you claimed that my initial post was relatively short and that I would be giving that same short post back to you. So try and keep things straight!

Jodi,

There isn’t one person here that doesn’t believe their ideas line up directly with scripture.
So don’t think you are alone here. Plus they to can site a bunch of verses as well.
You Try to flood us with your ideas… but we see things differently

The difference here is: I seek reconciliation. So I stick to
very specific points on which to build a consensus on.
Establishing the truth takes time, so I go slow.
Building on what we first can agree upon.

______________
God bless
Ed J

[Ed J]

but you have a problem with me saying that Jesus is the Son of a Human Being?

Hi Jodi,

I don’t have a problem with that, because Mary was a Human Being and Jesus was her son.
The problem is you attempt to force Joseph into the story, when the bible is clear
Joseph was not Jesus father.

You change one word here, another word in another sentence, and then change another word
in yet another sentence, add a comma,… and before long you reconstruct it into a false narrative.
That is why we need to go by what the bible says, not by what Jodi says after scripture is all altered.

Hope you can see my point.

____________
God bless
Ed J

[Ed J]

Hi Jodi, so far here are things we do agree upon…

Joseph’s genealogy is given in Matthew 1:2-16 (Abraham to Joseph)

and

Mary’s father’s genealogy is given in Luke 3:23-38
(going all the way back to Adam, son of God)
At least I believe you agree with this.

____________
God bless
Ed J

[GeneBalthrop]

Proclaimer…..The Anointing Spirit is the Nature of God, Jesus did have that , after he had recieved it, at the age of around 30, so yes he then did exist with the Nature of God from that point on. But he did use that to try to make himself equal with God, which he could have as I explained if the had a mind to.  I even gave you a scripture that showed how careful he was to maintain that relationship with God the Father.

Moses also a anointed leader, broke Faith with God, by focusing the miracle at the waters of Mariba, as if he was the one doing it. As a result he was not allowed to enter the promise land.

Jesus was very carefulnot to do that, he gave God the Father all the Glory, and made sure he did not rob him of  that Glory .

Jodi is right when she said, Jesus was given that Nature, because he was anointed by God, he was not “born” with it.

Nor was he “morphed”, from another former existence and made to “forget everything” and start over as a human baby . Why would God the Father ask anyone to do that?  What would be the purpose in that, what would that prove to humanity!  Nothing, , you haven’t produced “any” proof of a “preexisting” Jesus,  not one  sound scripture that  shows any activity of such a being existing anywhere . 

Face it Proclaimer, you as the rest are ever trying to make Jesus always appear different then we are, just as Satan wants you people to do. Go read 2ths2, and this time think about what’s your part in creating and turning the “image” of Jesus into a “man of sin”  , mentioned there, who “sits in the temple of God and is being desplayed as a God” , the one who is “now ” being worshiped as a God.  What “man” could that be? , it is Jesus,  who being a man is, “now”,  being worshiped as a God. 

Anyone who does not see Jesus as a 100% human being, who God the Father has perfected by his Anointing Spirit  and even tested him and proved him even to the point of death, just does not see the “real Son of man” Jesus the “anointed” one, of God the father.  A 100% human being from start to finish , and still is a human being, and will return as a “son of man” , a human being,  to rule this earth, as a human ruler sitting on the throne of  David , who he is the, root and offspring of,  he is  of  the linage of David, just as he said he was and is.

Peace and love to you and yours ……..gene

 

[Jodi]

Hi Ed J,

Because the young Jesus called YHVH his father
we can assume then that he must have been his Father from birth, correct?

NO

YHVH our heavenly Father knows us and loves us before we are born, and all the works of our heavenly Father’s hands since the beginning were made by reason of and for his Son Jesus Christ to receive dominion over as a king of kings and a lord of lords.

[Jodi]

Hi All,

A Son of God is not a Son because you exist as a particular kind of creature, but rather you’re a Son of God when you as the creature you are, live being fully LED by God’s Spirit.

Exactly why Paul tells us that those who are LED by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God, and the Spirit bears witness to our spirit that we are children of God. 

We are told that Jesus’ human flesh was not allowed to see decay, he was quickened with his flesh receiving glory, power, made incorruptible, where he will sit on his father David’s throne according to the flesh as a king of kings and a lord of lords.

We are told that Jesus is the son of David and is “declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of Holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

We are told upon his resurrection this human of flesh was BEGOTTEN by God, that he received the PROMISED Holy Spirit. 

If you believe Jesus had existed as one kind of being, then temporarily became another, and then went back to a former being, you are against direct scripture.

Jesus was once a mortal human being, he was raised an immortal human being, he now sits at God’s right hand as a human being, he is returning as a human being in our Father’s glory, and he will sit on an eternal throne as a human being, for God had made human beings in His own image to have dominion over the works of His hands. 

[Berean]

Jodi and Gêne

Jésus Come from Heaven.

For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.John 6:38

[Jodi]

Hi All,

Luke 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. 49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business? 50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them. 

Mary identifies Joseph as Jesus’ father and neither Mary or Joseph understood Jesus when he said that he was about his Father’s business. 

Isn’t it a little odd, of all people you would think Joseph and Mary could have understood what Jesus said, if indeed they believed that God was His Father according to his conception.

Read what Mary said in Luke 1 she recognizes her child most certainly as the coming Messiah who God would do His work through. 

45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord. 46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, 47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. 48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. 49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name. 50 And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation. 51 He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. 52 He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree. 53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away. 54 He hath holpen his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy; 55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 

Seems pretty apparent that Mary knew her child was the promised son of Jesse who would be anointed of the Spirit, but when her child told her that he was about His Father’s business she had no clue what he meant. 

[Jodi]

Hi All,

Luke 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. 49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father’s business? 50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.

After Jesus was anointed of the Spirit and sent into the world we have several examples in scripture of him able to perceive people’s thoughts.

Above however he had no clue, he wasn’t even thoughtful enough to think to tell his parents he was staying behind, nor considered that they might wonder where he was and worry looking for him.

Him staying behind and not thinking twice about consequences to his parents sounds like something other boys of his age would do and then would need to be disciplined for. Jesus was most certainly growing in wisdom, and it’s clear that he knew and understood a lot when talking with teachers in the temple.

Just thinking here,

People want to say that we are to see the baby Jesus, and the juvenile Jesus and the adult Jesus as the Son of God because of what kind of being he was on earth, because part of his being had pre-existed as God’s Son. We are to identify the baby Jesus, the juvenile Jesus and the adult Jesus as the pre-existing Son of God that left behind his glory and combined with Mary’s egg.

Scripture however shows us that people believed Jesus as God’s Son BECAUSE of the WORDS that he spoke, BECAUSE of the signs and miracles he performed. Even the tempter in the wilderness identified Jesus as a Son of God BECAUSE of the powers of the Spirit he had. 

Jesus was a Son of God because God LED him in all His ways, where through God’s Spirit that was upon him without measure he did God’s works, not because of what he partially existed as that had pre-existed.  

Our desire isn’t to become some new kind of being whereby existing as that new being it makes us a Son of God. Our desire and what we are to have faith in is God becoming all in us so that we may walk in all His ways, being a Son of God by being LED by the Spirit of God. 

[Jodi]

Hi Ed J,

It’s just not good form to give an accusation again that was proven to be false and not “try” to then at least give further examples. Giving an accusation and not backing it up with an example just makes you appear like a slanderer.

Let me ask you this,

Is there ONE BIBLE that you believe is PERFECT in ALL word and in ALL punctuation?

I don’t.

[Author]

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