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Hi LU,
YOU:
Thanks for your response. I have got to give you credit for trying but at the same time missing why Jesus is in the lineage of Abraham to Joseph (according to the flesh). It was because Jesus was born of Joseph’s wife, Mary.
ME: Matthew directly goes against your position above, he gives us the BOOK of the GENESIS/GENEALOGY/LINEAGE OF Jesus to show how he is the offspring of David and of Abraham.
LU, we are not given by Matthew a BOOK of Mary’s GENETIC LINE but the BOOK of Joseph’s. You refuse to address this and the fact that verse 17 is the same BOOK of a genetic line that begins with Abraham and ends with Christ, to which thus includes Joseph.
YOU: If Joseph was not married to Mary, Jesus’ mother, Jesus would not be in Joseph’s lineage.
ME: LU, a person IS NOT said to be of someones genetic line if they are adopted, or if they are related by marriage, that is absurd.
It’s like you want to totally ERASE the context of what Matthew begins with and then what he states in verse 17, “THEREFORE all the generations (GENEA) from Abraham to David..”.
Matthew gives us who Jesus’ genetic father is and states the mother to whom he was born from.
YOU: Matthew has a pattern throughout the list of generations…so and so begat so and so…UNTIL the list comes to Joseph, then the pattern stops. It does not say or imply that Joseph begat Jesus. Instead, the pattern changes and emphasizes that Joseph was married to the woman of whom Jesus was born.
ME: “the pattern stops”, so you feel it’s legitimate then to just ignore Matthew in verse 1 and 17, or rather treat Matthew as a liar?
A consistent pattern of simply a person begetting a person who begets a person DOESN’T EXIST anyway.
2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; 3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; 4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; 5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; 6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; 7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; 8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; 9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; 10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; 11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: 12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;….
YOU: Jesus was never said to be begotten of Joseph in the list within Matt 1.
ME: In Matthew we are directly being given the BOOK of the GENEALOGY of Jesus and that book GIVEN IS Joseph’s, who is the husband of Mary of whom Jesus was born (gennao).
1 THE BOOK OF THE GENEALOGY of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. 2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas…11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: 12 And after they were brought to Babylon,…. 16-17 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. THEREFORE all the generations (GENEA) from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, and from David to the deportation to Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon to the Christ are fourteen generations.
Jesus, born of Mary, is of the genetic lineage of his mother’s husband Joseph, where he thus is the offspring of David and Abraham, such is EXACTLY what Matthew tells us. The Holy Spirit came upon Mary and she conceived a child born according to this GENETIC BOOK.
Hi LU,
YOU:
Jesus, according to the flesh has one biological human parent, (Mary).
Jesus, according to the flesh has one legal but not biological human father, (Joseph).
The conception in Mary was from the Holy Spirit. Mary is a distant offspring in the line of David, therefore so is her firstborn son, Jesus. Her conception was supernatural and different than the natural way.
ME: It’s not just according to FLESH, it’s according to Jesus being an adam and an anthropos a HUMAN BEING, a specific KIND of flesh that God had made, which also according to God is not made through a female human alone.
The GENETIC BOOK of Jesus is given by Matthew and it includes Joseph.
The conception of Mary occurred FOR A SIGN unto the house of David concerning an heir to the throne from this house of David. A right to be king was according to who your bio father is, and we see in Matthew indeed all the kings that came of the line of David, where Jesus is directly linked genetically to this line of kings. God brought forth THE SIGN, of the promised king unto the house of David through the power of His Spirit.
The SIGN was not given for the purpose that the house of David would know God’s pre-existing son would become some halfbreed flesh/spirit being for to save Israel.
The SIGN was given that the house of David might know that this child of the seed of David of his sons, would be the mortal man to whom God would be mindful of and visit, crown with glory and honor, and give this human being dominion overall the works of YHVH’s hands, which He ALONE had made.
Alone ????
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
LU and Berean……Jodi is “exactly” right, Jesus was a direct decedent of King David, through the linage of Joseph, as Matthew says . Why is it so hard for you to believe God the Father Took the DNA of Joseph and impregnated Mary with it? That certanly would be easier then the “morphing” process that you people preach of a preexisting God being, a thousand time easier to do and far more logical.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Gêne
You
Why is it so hard for you to believe God the Father Took the DNA of Joseph and impregnated Mary with it?
Me
The Bible don’t Say that expressly.
Berean, but scripture does say and show he was from the linage of David, he was also a male , something a women could not produce, because it the male that causes the gender of a person.
Now Jesus says he is a root and offspring of King David, he was a. Male . Mary being a women could not make a male person, so the only way Jesus could be born a male from the root of Jesse was through the Male linage, Mary’s linage had nothing to do with it, as all linage in scripture is given through the males genealogy.
Berean, but you see this going around and around about minute details, is really not what is all about, all this nonsense, now is it? Look YOU PEOPLE “preach” a God who was morphed into a human body right?, we on the other hand say Jesus “had to be” a 100% in “every” way a ordinary human being , “exactly” as we are. Why? because that is the “only way”, he could accomplish for humanity what he did accomplish, he had to be a pure 100% human being “exactly” in everway like us, or it simply would be a complete false show, and prove nothing, except how God decieved all humanity though a desguised being. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
but scripture does say and show he was from the linage of David, he was also a male , something a women could not produce, because it the male that causes the gender of a person.
Gene
If God had wanted Joseph to be involved in Jesus’ birth, He would have guided the couple into a sexual relationship ….. but it was not God’s plan for it to be so. For God nothing is impossible and He quite simply acted by his Spirit so that Mary is fertilized and gives birth to Jesus.
in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9
The bible say ALSO that in the biginning “THE WORD” (name given by John to the Son of God …) WAS GOD AND WITH GOD….ans that THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH….
It IS why Paul Say that to the colossians
Berean…..if that were to happen then prophesy of a vergin berth would have not been fulfilled right, so God did both by taking the DNA of King Davids line and impregnating Mary himself with it. Now both thing are fulfilled, the prophesy and the linage of David. No problem with God, a simple thing for him to do. Jesus was and is still a 100% pure human being like us in “every” way.
Berean if your not seeing Our “flesh” brother Jesus, and our comming king, as one of us human being , you simply are not seening the real Jesus, just that simple brother.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
All things were made by HIM and without HIM was not any thing made that was made.
“HIM” SHOW A PERSON
This PERSON WAS THE SON OF GOD
ALLELOUIA !!!!
Berean the word “by” in Greek does not mean what it does in English, it means for the “Perpose of him.” Another words God made all things for the perpose of his perfected human creation. Jesus never made anything himself, he even said that, “the Son of Man can do “nothing of himself”. So how could he himself made anything? , your buying into all the false teachings the devil has created in Christanity. You need to come out of those false teachings, and you would be supprised at how scriptures will open up to you.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
THE BIBLE STATES IN JOHN 1 THAT BEFORE BEING MADE MAN, HE WAS GOD (of the same divine nature as God his Father) PAUL SAYS THE SAME THING IN PHILIPPIANS
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.Good Morning Berean,
I have 3 points for you.
1.Yes our heavenly Father created all things ALONE, BY HIMSELF, as we are directly told by Isaiah.
2. Our One and Only True God The Father, created all things by reason of and for the Son of Man Jesus, that he might be a firstborn among many brethren, for our heavenly Father created man in His own image, not in vain. God made man to all drink of the same cup that the son of David Jesus of Nazareth drinks of, the ONE SPIRIT, and those that are LED by this Spirit of God are the Sons of God.
3. The Son of Man came to save that which was lost, he does so through God’s anointing Spirit upon him which leads him in all his ways, thus making him a Son of God according to the Spirit. Without the anointed Jesus sent to preach the Word of life and to set man at liberty from the penalty of their sins, nothing that our heavenly Father had made ALONE, BY HIMSELF, would have been made. All things were made “IN HIM”, the Son of Man God declared from the beginning who would one day come and execute our Creator’s purpose that was also declared from the beginning, eternal life unto mankind. This man is returning in our Father’s glory, where he will sit on his father David’s throne according to the flesh, being a firstborn of many humans who have God’s Spirit upon them given for all eternity.
Who, being in the form of God,…….
took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
UPON HIS DIVINE NATURE
HE TOOK THE HUMAN NATURE….
IT IS THE TRUTH
I DO NOT LIE
MAY GOD OPEN YOUR EYES….AMEN
Hi Berean,
READ these passages and apply them together.
Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF;
Psalm 8: O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. ….3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Isaiah 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. 12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. 13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives,
17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. 18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God HIMSELF that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. 19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Psalms 89:24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Mark 10:39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them,Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized: 40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For in him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created through him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
READ AGAIN,
Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, THE MAN that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
READ AGAIN,
17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. 18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God HIMSELF that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. 19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
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