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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 22 2010,03:01) martian…………Mike i think is truly struggling with his position on Preexistence and is considering all we are posting and hope fully is praying for GOD to guide His mind into the truth. I think he is a decent person brother he just has been indoctrinated as T8 and Irene have and that is hard to overcome. peace and love to you and your martian…………………………gene
Gene,Thanks for the kind words, but I assure you it is only scripture that I follow. This is only the 4th scripture of about 15 that I plan to list. We'll see how your mystical abstract meanings of what the plainly written words mean are holding up by then.
mike
Quote (martian @ Aug. 22 2010,03:41) However, every single scripture that Mike has posted has been shown to be weak on preexistence. He will not admit it but he has lost every debate on the matter.
Okay Mr. “dad, can I have the money I had in your presence even though I wasn't really there at the time”!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 22 2010,06:57) Quote (martian @ Aug. 22 2010,03:41) However, every single scripture that Mike has posted has been shown to be weak on preexistence. He will not admit it but he has lost every debate on the matter.
Okay Mr. “dad, can I have the money I had in your presence even though I wasn't really there at the time”!
Westcot and hart does not translate it that way. Could you give me the reference for that translation?Mike……….You have lost every debate and have not yet produce any sound solid scripture that back up Your points. Mike it would help if you would at least acknowledge when we present facts to back up our points, as when i presented you with the Word (en) being translated as only BY once out of many, many times translated as IN in The 1 Col text we were talking about. It does become quite impossible to get to the truth when you refuse to even acknowledge solid facts we offer. IMO
peace and love……………………………gene
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 22 2010,10:58) Quote (martian @ Aug. 22 2010,03:49) If you are not in the Father's presence while on this Earth then two things are true. 1. God is not omnipresent
2. You have a lot more problems then a debate. We should all be in the presence of the Father as much as possible.
Hi Martian,I hope all here would agree with this!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjonly in a certain way ,we are at te least some of us in the presence of God ,
most of men are dead even as they walking this planet,if you have no light of truth you are dead,
and we know God is the God of the living not of the dead.
Pierre
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 22 2010,21:34) Mike……….You have lost every debate and have not yet produce any sound solid scripture that back up Your points. Mike it would help if you would at least acknowledge when we present facts to back up our points, as when i presented you with the Word (en) being translated as only BY once out of many, many times translated as IN in The 1 Col text we were talking about. It does become quite impossible to get to the truth when you refuse to even acknowledge solid facts we offer. IMO peace and love……………………………gene
genei have now seen 3 things or believes you have ;
1)you do not believe in PEEXISTANCE OF CHRIST.2)YOU DO BELIEVE IN PREDETERMINATION.
3)YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE FREEWILL OF CHOICE OF MEN.
i WONDER IF I MISS ANY?
Pierre
Terricca……….Fact is you have missed it all. IMO
I do not believe Jesus existed as a (BEING) before his berth, NOT THAT HE DIN NOT EXIST IN THE PLAN AND WILL OF GOD.
I definitely believe all things are in accordance to the predetermined will of GOD, “FOR GO WORKS (ALL) THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF (HIS OWN) WILL”.
I absolutely do not believe in “FREE” WILL of Man , I believe in (INFLUENCED WILL OF MEN). Man has been given power to exercise his OWN (INFLUENCED WILL) a WILL that is FAR from Being “FREE” but is held captive by what is (INFLUENCING) IT as your is to accuse the brothers. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 22 2010,14:34) Mike……….You have lost every debate and have not yet produce any sound solid scripture that back up Your points.
Again Gene,Those are just your words…….why would they have any bearing on what we're discussing? Would it make me automatically “right” if I began my posts with, “You have lost every debate Gene……”?
It's silly and doesn't need to said IMO. But just for the record, how was it again that you personally “refuted” Phil 2, which basically says,
Who BEGINNING in the form of God……EMPTIED HIMSELF…….and was BEGOTTEN IN THE FORM OF A HUMAN BEING.
This is what the Greek words say Gene. To me it looks like “sound, solid scripture”. Where are those “facts” that refute it that you speak of?
Oh that's right, they aren't so much “facts” as mystical heebee jeebee abstract things that these words could mean if Paul was some Hindu guru speaking metaphysically.
Come to the light Gene…….it's brighter over here.
Why don't you……IN YOUR OWN WORDS, not the words of the guy Martian quotes………explain away these clearly stated Greek words in Phil 2?
mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 23 2010,09:48) Terricca……….Fact is you have missed it all. IMO I do not believe Jesus existed as a (BEING) before his berth, NOT THAT HE DIN NOT EXIST IN THE PLAN AND WILL OF GOD.
I definitely believe all things are in accordance to the predetermined will of GOD, “FOR GO WORKS (ALL) THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF (HIS OWN) WILL”.
I absolutely do not believe in “FREE” WILL of Man , I believe in (INFLUENCED WILL OF MEN). Man has been given power to exercise his OWN (INFLUENCED WILL) a WILL that is FAR from Being “FREE” but is held captive by what is (INFLUENCING) IT as your is to accuse the brothers. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
geneyou do not believe the way HEAVEN NET does,why you here you should be with the septics no ??
Pierre
Terricca………..The way heaven net thinks is unimportant to me, The Truth is what Matter > As far as being Here i have been here many many many more Years then you Have by far. You would be better of trying to Use Sound scripture to back up ypu dogmas instead of going around being an accuser of the brethren. IMO
peace and love………………………..gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 23 2010,03:17) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 22 2010,14:34) Mike……….You have lost every debate and have not yet produce any sound solid scripture that back up Your points.
Again Gene,Those are just your words…….why would they have any bearing on what we're discussing? Would it make me automatically “right” if I began my posts with, “You have lost every debate Gene……”?
It's silly and doesn't need to said IMO. But just for the record, how was it again that you personally “refuted” Phil 2, which basically says,
Who BEGINNING in the form of God……EMPTIED HIMSELF…….and was BEGOTTEN IN THE FORM OF A HUMAN BEING.
This is what the Greek words say Gene. To me it looks like “sound, solid scripture”. Where are those “facts” that refute it that you speak of?
Oh that's right, they aren't so much “facts” as mystical heebee jeebee abstract things that these words could mean if Paul was some Hindu guru speaking metaphysically.
Come to the light Gene…….it's brighter over here.
Why don't you……IN YOUR OWN WORDS, not the words of the guy Martian quotes………explain away these clearly stated Greek words in Phil 2?
mike
Mike ………Are you talking about how you and the other preexistences explain away Where GOD said He and He (ALONE) created everything (BY HIMSELF), Now is that what you are referring to brother? I will stay with what GOD HIMSELF said he did , and you can stay with what False Trinitarians and Preexsitence are saying. Seeing both are in the same boat and share the same dogmas of preexistence. IMOpeace and love…………………..gene
Hey Gene,
I have answered the ALONE thing many times and in different ways for you to understand. And I will do it again if you need me to…….AFTER you actually answer my last post. Your turn to answer one, brother.
Once again, the question:
Why don't you……IN YOUR OWN WORDS, not the words of the guy Martian quotes………explain away these clearly stated Greek words in Phil 2?
mike
Mike ………….I have answered that as well as they have Phil 2 is not talking about Jesus' Preexistence before his (earth) existence , But He existed (while on earth with the nature of GOD) and He did not use it to try to rob GOD to be made equal with GOD. Paul was referencing to his (earthly) existence , that was a past time at the time Paul's was speaking so he said Jesus existed (that is on earth) with the Nature of GOD , GOD'S Holy Spirit was (IN) him He recieved it after his baptism after the Jordan. That was the Nature of GOD that existed in Him. Were not even talking about what Paul was relaying to the brethren as following Jesus example of Humility. That was Paul's point but as all false conclusion you are forcing the context to support what it was not even intending to talk about. Phil has nothing to do with Jesus pre=earth existence. IMO
peace and love………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 25 2010,22:16) Mike ………….I have answered that as well as they have Phil 2 is not talking about Jesus' Preexistence before his (earth) existence , But He existed (while on earth with the nature of GOD) and He did not use it to try to rob GOD to be made equal with GOD. Paul was referencing to his (earthly) existence , that was a past time at the time Paul's was speaking so he said Jesus existed (that is on earth) with the Nature of GOD , GOD'S Holy Spirit was (IN) him He recieved it after his baptism after the Jordan. That was the Nature of GOD that existed in Him. Were not even talking about what Paul was relaying to the brethren as following Jesus example of Humility. That was Paul's point but as all false conclusion you are forcing the context to support what it was not even intending to talk about. Phil has nothing to do with Jesus pre=earth existence. IMO peace and love………………………………..gene
Gene,Actually he didn't “rob” it because it was given to him.
The Professor
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2010,12:40) Hey Gene, I have answered the ALONE thing many times and in different ways for you to understand. And I will do it again if you need me to…….AFTER you actually answer my last post. Your turn to answer one, brother.
Once again, the question:
Why don't you……IN YOUR OWN WORDS, not the words of the guy Martian quotes………explain away these clearly stated Greek words in Phil 2?
mike
If you were not so whacked out in your brainwashing, you might realize that I have quoted many sources to you. Again if you quote a bible lexicon or dictionary or version of the Bible we are all supposed to wet our pants at your wisdom, but if we quote one we are using mere men.
What a total sham.Mike ……….Here is on for you………..Luke 1:35…> reading from Young's literial translation….> and the messenger answering said to her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the Power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten (THING) shall (future tense) be called Son of GOD.
Now why was He called the son of GOD , was it because He already was a Son of GOD (NO) He was not even call a son of GOD by the messenger , But he said (SHALL BE) because he did not then exist as a Son of GOD before His berth on earth and the (THING) (SHALL BE Called the Son of GOD) a future tense expression. But you say he already existed as (Past tense) a Son of GOD and He created everything. But this text mention (NO) Past existence What soever. Mike brother dump that Preexistence separatism garbage and try to realize God was dealing with Mankind by a Son of Mankind, a Perfected human being transforming him into His Own SON by his HOLY SPIRIT , Just as he can with us all. God was demonstrating to us (HIS) POWER and Ability to SAVE US just as He saved Jesus Christ our Lord. Why can you see this Mike?
peace and love to you and yours……………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 27 2010,11:23) Mike ……….Here is on for you………..Luke 1:35…> reading from Young's literial translation….> and the messenger answering said to her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the Power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten (THING) shall (future tense) be called Son of GOD. Now why was He called the son of GOD , was it because He already was a Son of GOD (NO) He was not even call a son of GOD by the messenger , But he said (SHALL BE) because he did not then exist as a Son of GOD before His berth on earth and the (THING) (SHALL BE Called the Son of GOD) a future tense expression. But you say he already existed as (Past tense) a Son of GOD and He created everything. But this text mention (NO) Past existence What soever. Mike brother dump that Preexistence separatism garbage and try to realize God was dealing with Mankind by a Son of Mankind, a Perfected human being transforming him into His Own SON by his HOLY SPIRIT , Just as he can with us all. God was demonstrating to us (HIS) POWER and Ability to SAVE US just as He saved Jesus Christ our Lord. Why can you see this Mike?
peace and love to you and yours……………gene
Gene,When Jesus emptied one form and took on another form as stated in Phil 2, who would be best to plant his spirit into Mary? Lu 1:35. The Power of the Most High, the Holy Spirit.
The Professor
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 20 2010,13:15) Hi All, Ready for another one?
John 8:38 (New International Version)
38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father's presence, and you do what you have heard from your father.”Does this not clearly say that the person Jesus had “seen” things “in the Father's presence”?
peace and love,
mike
Mikeboll,Bring it on sonny.
Nope.
How so?
God is everywhere. The Father's presence is everywhere. He is with you right now. He is with me right now.
The scripture is God's heart to man. You read and study the scripture, you learn God's “heart.”
Jesus Christ astounded the teachers in the temple when he was twelve years old with his understanding of the scriptures.
What kind of understanding do you think he had at twenty?
What kind of understanding do you think he had at thirty when he began his ministry?
Jesus Christ knows and understands scripture. He knows God's heart because of his understanding of scripture.
Then of all things, he gets baptized by John and spirit from God descends upon him. Now he is spiritually connected with God besides his mental understanding of the scriptures.
How well did JC know God's heart?
Pretty well, I should say.
barley
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 25 2010,12:08) Terricca………..The way heaven net thinks is unimportant to me, The Truth is what Matter > As far as being Here i have been here many many many more Years then you Have by far. You would be better of trying to Use Sound scripture to back up you dogmas instead of going around being an accuser of the brethren. IMO peace and love………………………..gene
Gene! If you believe in the truth, then believe that Jesus was with His Father in Heaven before the world was……..You do not believe the truth…….You believe what Gene wants to believe…. We on the other hand believe what Scriptures say….. And Scriptures say by Jesus own words that He came down from Heaven, and that He wants the glory He had with His Father before the world was. That is written in the Scriptures, nothing else…… You interpret those Scriptures according what you want them to say and not how they are written……. That is what is so wrong about your understanding……you rather call Jesus a liar…
As far as Heaven Net is concerned did you even read what they say?
I doubt it…..Peace IreneQuote (barley @ Aug. 30 2010,08:39) God is everywhere. The Father's presence is everywhere. He is with you right now. He is with me right now.
Hi barley,I wonder why then that Jesus stated that sentence as a contrast to the ones he was speaking with?
Would they not ALL have “seen things in the Father's presence” if what you say is true?
Why did Jesus single himself out and away from them by saying “the things I have seen in the Father's presence” as opposed to the things they learned from “their fathers”?
mike
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